Kraton 12s Arrma Kraton MGM/Castle

[Deepdish32]

Hello everyone this is my first post, so please if there is anything I should correct just let me know. I would like to share and let everyone know that the kraton 8s platform is great, the drivetrain is strong, wheel base length and width is perfect to handle 50volt 12s systems. Yes the stock chassis has issues but there are aftermarket 6061 and 7075 alloy chassis and bracing available, not to mention Arrma just released the 1.5 version with better chassis bracing. With this current 12s Kraton build, I have worked closely with MGM compro and Castle Creations to have the first working 12s sensored Castle 2028 800kv system. The MGM X2pro 25063-3 esc I used is not cheap but comes with Data monitoring, a ton of customized settings, sensor capabilities, 4 vehicle profiles, and 5 year warranty. The Castle Creations 12s 2028 800kv sensored Ywind 4 pole motor won it for this build over the aggressive amp hungry TPPower 12s 5870 800kv sensorless Dwind 6pole motor. The TP motor was ruff the 6 pole magnetism resistance was harsh and the motor being sensorless it was like the power was just uncontrollable because esc doesn't know the motors position from a stop to a go. Rhe 12s to motor already killed 2 ZTW/HOBBYSTAR 12s esc's in a matter of seconds. It worked with the MGM but the 20 hp 15000 watt motor was just too much for a 30 pound car. I always liked the castle 2028 800kv sensorless motor with the ZTW/Hobbystar 12s esc in my x maxx but I wanted to try the new sensored version with the MGM esc. All I can is wow just wow Castle 2028 800kv sensored on 12s with the MGM is the perfect match just check out the footage in you tube links. I used OSE 8mm antispark connectors with two Powerhobby 6s 100c 8000 mah packs and they deliver supply power no problem and have long runtimes with this build, but mainly because of the efficient sensored esc motor combination . I added a x maxx heatsink for the castle 2028 motor with a 50×50×28 40CFM fan but with all the bashing in the videos the sensored 12s 2028 motor would not get hot at all with the powerful cooling fan off. The motor is quite, super smooth, and takes whatever power the MGM esc lets through its Transistor switches. I include a snapshot of the amp data from esc and amps reached as high as 800amps which is crazy. I used a mod 1.0 33t pinion and 47t stock spur in these videos and I cant believe how fast this kraton is with mild gearing. In one of the pictures I changed the spur to a Arrma infraction spur 39t but I have not ran that gear setup yet, I expect to gain atleast 10mph extra offroad. I am using a 30mm spaced unpolished motor mount from ebay. M2C racing polish 7075 chassis. My own custom built 6061 3/8×3/4"inch rectangle alloy for top brace. Proline badland bead lock wheels, I drilled out the bore with step bit to fit the kraton spindle. I am just happy with the outcome of this build and the fact that castle is releasing a sensored 12s esc soon is just great. I do believe 12s 800kv sensored setups will be the future for big scale R/C's. Please check out the footage, more videos and post to come. Please share your 12s, 10s or 8s kraton builds. If anyone has any suggestions please comment. Well thanks for letting me share this post.

 

[Mr.Duke]

Welcome to the forum.
I’ve seen quite a few of your vids on YT and like the setup.

 

[Deepdish32]

Welcome to the forum.
I’ve seen quite a few of your vids on YT and like the setup.

Thanks man and thanks for checking out the videos. I really see a future in 12s sensored setups. If if castle releases their 12s sensored esc it will be a game changer

 

[jondilly1974]

Deep Dish, does that mean your from the Chicago area? ???

That K12S is sick AF ?

 

[Deepdish32]

Deep Dish, does that mean your from the Chicago area? ???

That K12S is sick AF ?

Thanks man, glad you liked the footage. I am from and live in Maryland. The name Deepdish or DishDoctor is from when I did automotive 10 years ago. I was a engine performance diagnosis specialist but also a performance/exotic/custom wheel /suspension specialist as well. Everyone would call me DishDoctor or Deepdish. You know Deepdish wheels! Lol

 

[jondilly1974]

Thanks man, glad you liked the footage. I am from and live in Maryland. The name Deepdish or DishDoctor is from when I did automotive 10 years ago. I was a engine performance diagnosis specialist but also a performance/exotic/custom wheel /suspension specialist as well. Everyone would call me DishDoctor or Deepdish. You know Deepdish wheels! Lol

Makes sense. I’m originally from the Chicago area so when I hear deep dish I think pizza. And I’m fat. Fat guys love pizza ??✌?

 

[Steel_Rain]

Nice setup. I love MGM products. Not your typical ESC and they aren't for everyone. I had an MGM setup in a 5ive-T conversion and it was incredible, but it's not your run of the mill MAX5 in terms of setup or support.

I think MGM should target conversion "kits" like they have with the 1/5 scale vehicles (i.e. Losi/Kraken/) but with the 1/8th scale crowd. Then Castle/HW would have another player to compete with. The issue with MGM has always been the huge costs involved with the products they make. If they could make a fully sensored setup for the 1/8th scale range in the $300-400 range, they could be a huge player.

I think the future with 1/5 and 1/6 scale rigs with fully sensored 800kv-1200kv large can motors is a great one. It's just cost prohibitive (for most) right now.

 

[gotnitro]

Rhe 12s to motor already killed 2 ZTW/HOBBYSTAR 12s esc's in a matter of seconds.

Nice build!

Did you smoke the V1 or V2 beast pro's? My HS300 has been perfect so far, never got above 109 doing speed runs to LVC. The HW 800KV has had its moments with cogging.. I can get it to crawl setting my EXPO right on the TQ but not start up crawl. For me, there is something about crawling a big ass truck knowing whats under the hood! To piggyback @Steel_Rain I'll be one of the first in line for a CC 12s sensored combo!

 

[LibertyMKiii]

Thanks man and thanks for checking out the videos. I really see a future in 12s sensored setups. If if castle releases their 12s sensored esc it will be a game changer

Agreed, I just hope it is significantly smaller than the MGM ESC for the sake of the 1/7 and 1/8 scale cars fitting the ESC

 

[Deepdish32]

Nice setup. I love MGM products. Not your typical ESC and they aren't for everyone. I had an MGM setup in a 5ive-T conversion and it was incredible, but it's not your run of the mill MAX5 in terms of setup or support.

I think MGM should target conversion "kits" like they have with the 1/5 scale vehicles (i.e. Losi/Kraken/) but with the 1/8th scale crowd. Then Castle/HW would have another player to compete with. The issue with MGM has always been the huge costs involved with the products they make. If they could make a fully sensored setup for the 1/8th scale range in the $300-400 range, they could be a huge player.

I think the future with 1/5 and 1/6 scale rigs with fully sensored 800kv-1200kv large can motors is a great one. It's just cost prohibitive (for most) right now.

Yeah man MGM esc's are not for everyone, they are not your typical Traxxas, Hobbywing hook lipo and turn on esc and send it type of esc. A lot of of tuning is needed when running sensorless motors. But their support team is great at reviewing your PDF esc data and giving tips on setting up the esc. The thing I noticed about the MGM compro they aren't really in the R/C hobby stuff as much as they are into the large scale industrial esc's and BMS systems. But they do offer 8s combos for traxxas x maxx and arrma limitless. Who know's they might offer more products and combos for a wide range of vehicles. They do seem excited of the videos I show them with their esc and the Castle sensored in action. I am thinking if the ZTW 12s ESC cost 300 to 400$ the castle 12s sensored esc will be about $600 and that's in the MGM price range for the esc used for my 12s build. But we will see.

 

[bicketybam]

Yeah man MGM esc's are not for everyone, they are not your typical Traxxas, Hobbywing hook lipo and turn on esc and send it type of esc. A lot of of tuning is needed when running sensorless motors. But their support team is great at reviewing your PDF esc data and giving tips on setting up the esc. The thing I noticed about the MGM compro they aren't really in the R/C hobby stuff as much as they are into the large scale industrial esc's and BMS systems. But they do offer 8s combos for traxxas x maxx and arrma limitless. Who know's they might offer more products and combos for a wide range of vehicles. They do seem excited of the videos I show them with their esc and the Castle sensored in action. I am thinking if the ZTW 12s ESC cost 300 to 400$ the castle 12s sensored esc will be about $600 and that's in the MGM price range for the esc used for my 12s build. But we will see.

What exactly are you doing with this build? Are you bashing or are you a speed runner? I bash and I'm not sure I see the advantage of a 12S setup, though that's not to say I can't appreciate what you have done. You did an amazing job ???

 

[Deepdish32]

Nice build!

Did you smoke the V1 or V2 beast pro's? My HS300 has been perfect so far, never got above 109 doing speed runs to LVC. The HW 800KV has had its moments with cogging.. I can get it to crawl setting my EXPO right on the TQ but not start up crawl. For me, there is something about crawling a big ass truck knowing whats under the hood! To piggyback @Steel_Rain I'll be one of the first in line for a CC 12s sensored combo!

I killed version 1 and 2 which was just released in January of this year. My old castle 2028 800KV non sensored motor did just fine with the version 1 ZTW/HOBBYSTAR 12s esc. It was when I paired it with the 122mm long TP power 5870 800 kv 12s D wound 6 pole motor when the ZTW/Hobbystar couldn't stand a chance. The hobbywing 800kv is pretty much a copy cat castle 2028 Y wound 4 pole motor so it should do just fine on 12s given fact the rotor turning resistance isnt as excessive like a D wound 6 pole motor. Hobbywing just wont warranty it if you tell them you used it on 12s, not that it matters. I share alot of my data with Castle tech's to help get this 12s esc pushed through. But there are still version 2's falling left and right and my boy had 5 of the ZTW/HOBBYSTAR esc's fail on him including the version 2. Here is a video of the version 2 hobbystar running a losi 5b 58/20 gearing offroad at 68 mph a few weeks back and just recently the esc failed. Check out the video in the link.

 

[gotnitro]

I killed version 1 and 2 which was just released in January of this year. My old castle 2028 800KV non sensored motor did just fine with the version 1 ZTW/HOBBYSTAR 12s esc. It was when I paired it with the 122mm long TP power 5870 800 kv 12s D wound 6 pole motor when the ZTW/Hobbystar couldn't stand a chance. The hobbywing 800kv is pretty much a copy cat castle 2028 Y wound 4 pole motor so it should do just fine on 12s given fact the rotor turning resistance isnt as excessive like a D wound 6 pole motor. Hobbywing just wont warranty it if you tell them you used it on 12s, not that it matters. I share alot of my data with Castle tech's to help get this 12s esc pushed through. But there are still version 2's falling left and right and my boy had 5 of the ZTW/HOBBYSTAR esc's fail on him including the version 2. Here is a video of the version 2 hobbystar running a losi 5b 58/20 gearing offroad at 68 mph a few weeks back and just recently the esc failed. Check out the video in the link.

Sure that's the right vid? Didn't see it fail.

 

[Deepdish32]

Sure that's the right vid? Didn't see it fail.

Failed last Sunday. The video is about 3 weeks old.lol

 

[Deepdish32]

What exactly are you doing with this build? Are you bashing or are you a speed runner? I bash and I'm not sure I see the advantage of a 12S setup, though that's not to say I can't appreciate what you have done. You did an amazing job ???

Honestly this build- ESC motor combo was just to see if I its possible to get the new 2028 sensored to send sensor data to sensored esc while being on 12s. I believe I am the first, all the castle techs were talking about how sweet it is on 8s sensored mode, but have yet to try on 12s. As well as the MGM compro community in which everyone runs sensorless 20 to 30 hp lehner motors with their 400 or 800 amp esc's. But this build turns out to be a great speed basher build, literally holding the throttle all the way the kraton does being doing crazy low flying airplane maneuvers offroad. I will do a top speed offroad run as well as onroad run. Not to mention I will bash it offroad, but nothing like jumping skate park jumps but more like hitting 4 foot tall grass hill jumps in that matter. The motor stays cool and delivers great power. This is why I see a future in 12s sensored setups, even thoe I like my sensorless TP power 8s fat can high kv motor builds in the kraton. It's just all trial and error and sharing.

 

[bicketybam]

Honestly this build- ESC motor combo was just to see if I its possible to get the new 2028 sensored to send sensor data to sensored esc while being on 12s. I believe I am the first, all the castle techs were talking about how sweet it is on 8s sensored mode, but have yet to try on 12s. As well as the MGM compro community in which everyone runs sensorless 20 to 30 hp lehner motors with their 400 or 800 amp esc's. But this build turns out to be a great speed basher build, literally holding the throttle all the way the kraton does being doing crazy low flying airplane maneuvers offroad. I will do a top speed offroad run as well as onroad run. Not to mention I will bash it offroad, but nothing like jumping skate park jumps but more like hitting 4 foot tall grass hill jumps in that matter. The motor stays cool and delivers great power. This is why I see a future in 12s sensored setups, even thoe I like my sensorless TP power 8s fat can high kv motor builds in the kraton. It's just all trial and error and sharing.

Please get some video. I'd like to see how it compares to what is already being done with the 8S basher builds.

 

[Deepdish32]

Please get some video. I'd like to see how it compares to what is already being done with the 8S basher builds.

I already posted some YouTube links of 12s build in action. I will put the 12s build back in kraton soon. Its currently in my x maxx. But I did thrown a TP5660 1460kv with Castle XL2 for the hell of it

 

[Steel_Rain]

Nice! On a side note...with my 12s setup, I used the OSE connectors and these are great! They are hard to find with the current supplier shortages in China, but I would recommend them to anyone that has concerns about current ratings, especially for speed runs.

They offer QS8 and QS10 :

http://www.qsrccn-hobbies.com/xptj/info_2.aspx?itemid=390&lcid=104

http://www.qsrccn-hobbies.com/xptj/info_2.aspx?itemid=553&lcid=104

XT90's are great, and for most folks out there, that's all you need for for 8s bashing (maybe even 12s bashing), but if your a speed run, mega gearing happy, these can only help keep current demands vs thermal overruns in check.

Yeah man MGM esc's are not for everyone, they are not your typical Traxxas, Hobbywing hook lipo and turn on esc and send it type of esc. A lot of of tuning is needed when running sensorless motors. But their support team is great at reviewing your PDF esc data and giving tips on setting up the esc. The thing I noticed about the MGM compro they aren't really in the R/C hobby stuff as much as they are into the large scale industrial esc's and BMS systems. But they do offer 8s combos for traxxas x maxx and arrma limitless. Who know's they might offer more products and combos for a wide range of vehicles. They do seem excited of the videos I show them with their esc and the Castle sensored in action. I am thinking if the ZTW 12s ESC cost 300 to 400$ the castle 12s sensored esc will be about $600 and that's in the MGM price range for the esc used for my 12s build. But we will see.

Agreed. As fas as I know, MGM started as a controller company for BMS systems (industrial automation). Obviously, the motor controller business can be applied to many different aspects. I love the stuff and I've heard the support they offer is great. I think they would have a huge market for RC if they can lower the price and complexity level. I think the basher crowd would prefer more options and less tuning as the limit for most is throttle calibration and end pont setting from what I've gathered.

That being said, congrats on integrating the two!

If Castle does release a new 12s ESC/Motor combo, I'll be purchasing it. I think if MGM would do the same and reduce the cost and complexity level, many others would also consider it.

 

[Deepdish32]

Agreed, I just hope it is significantly smaller than the MGM ESC for the sake of the 1/7 and 1/8 scale cars fitting the ESC

They do make smaller 8s esc's. There is a kit for arrma limitless but I haven't seen anyone do any runs with it yet.

 

[LibertyMKiii]

They do make smaller 8s esc's. There is a kit for arrma limitless but I haven't seen anyone do any runs with it yet.

To this day I have never seen anyone go REALLY fast with an MGM ESC (like over 140mph) Anyone going over 140mph is using Castle Creations.