Attn speed runners.how much toe are you guys using?

[Diem Turner]

Could be the servo saver or the servo (poor return to neutral performance).

 

[King blitz]

Wow .I'm here at work and I swear I was just thinking the same thing. when I rebuilt the front after merging both chassis together I reamember now that my servo arm has to settings on it and I think I didn't put it back in the right location..this might be my issue..thx diem

 

[King blitz]

Thanks to everyone that has come here and giving me advice.i mostly appreciate it very much..

 

[Hector_Fisher]

Question from the back

Actually had me laughing at this

 

[SrC]

I don't have a toe gauge .can someone take a pic of your set up so I can try to imitate the same degree..?
So here is another question..so I installed short arms in the front and left the long arms in the rear.i tryed it last night and I seems like when I had the front and rear with the long arms it was going straighter longer during the passes.what would happen if I reversed it and put longer arms in the front and short in the rear? Wouldn't that just give me better stearing? Or would it give a straighter pass? Or what if I just put in all short arms front and rear .then what..? I figured I'd ask before I try these ideas first.maybey someone else has thought of this.feed back plz .thank you my arrma brothers

Toe-In is so hard to guage in actual Degrees with the naked eye. A Pix will not reveal .5+/- degrees visually. Like 1-2 mm Toe-In is about right. Measured in MM. What is most important is that both wheels are the same. So the Fr and Rr tracking remains square. Otherwise the rig will "Dog Walk". Need a Toe guage. Even then, accuracy is still a ball park at best.
For OFF road, Zero or +5 degrees is about right.
I usually Start with Zero on all my rigs. No matter the type and might dial it further as needed. Zero is easy to set. And with all the inherent Steering slop, you lose or gain a Degree here and there no matter what you do. I feel Zero is safe and works most of the time. Unless you clearly have Steering drift issues. Then dial to suit. Always start out with your ST trim perfectly neutral before setting the toe. And this is always done with the Servo powered ON/centered. Best with the chassis in it's full running weight. (Lipos and body in place, having chassis Height already where you want it. Has to do with inherent "Bump Steer". Another topic altogether.
You can spend hundreds with a Hudy setup board and the tools. Overkill for bashers IMHO.

Edit.
With 4WD rigs, the front wheels naturally want to Toe-In ( due to the rotational load force placed on them), as the Fr. wheels are driven under power/ load. Something to consider with "Steering Slop" being part of this equation.
Food for thought.

>>> Conversely, with RearWD rigs, the Non-driven Front wheels naturally want to go Toe-out.

 

[King blitz]

Toe-In is so hard to guage in actual Degrees with the naked eye. Like 1-2 mm Toe-In is about right. Measued in MM. What is most important is that both wheels are the same. Need a Toe guage. Even then, accuracy is still a ball park at best.
For OFF road, Zero or +5 degrees is about right.
I usually Start with Zero on all my rigs. No matter the type and might dial it further as needed. Zero is easy to set. And with all the Steering slop, you lose or gain a Degree here and there no matter what you do. I feel Zero is safe and works most of the time. Unless you clearly have Steering drift issues. Then dial to suit.

Going to mess with it tonight.thats why I was saying that if I use another transmitter I could digitally set it to 0 .no?

Going to mess with it tonight.thats why I was saying that if I use another transmitter I could digitally set it to 0 .no?

On stock I can have the dial on 0 but I could be a degree off or even 2

Going to mess with it tonight.thats why I was saying that if I use another transmitter I could digitally set it to 0 .no?

On stock I can have the dial on 0 but I could be a degree off or even 2

I think it could be my servo
I don't think I set it to neutral.now that you mentioned having servo on while setting it I didn't do that.i was to anxious to get it together lol

 

[Diem Turner]

Going to mess with it tonight.thats why I was saying that if I use another transmitter I could digitally set it to 0 .no?

On stock I can have the dial on 0 but I could be a degree off or even 2

I think it could be my servo
I don't think I set it to neutral.now that you mentioned having servo on while setting it I didn't do that.i was to anxious to get it together lol

Set what to zero?

 

[LicketySplit]

Set what to zero?

Yes.

 

[SrC]

Like I stated prior, the Radio must be trimmed or even "sub" trimmed to Zero/ neutral. (depending on your radio) You cannot/should not attempt any alignment until you do this. You will be chasing a ghost. Spinning your wheels.
Maybe this is what you are having a problem with? IDK.
Be patient.
I can sometimes spend hours doing my initial alignment. Before all measures out at the front and rear. Tracking correct etc. Fr Camber also plays a part in this. Check it frequently along with your Fr. Toe setting. One change impacts the other to varying degrees. And Too much camber on one side can cause the rig to not go straight, despite the Toe being set properly. Start with Camber Equal on both sides. I try for Zero camber (On road), or slightly Neg (Off road). Then double check after every minor Toe change.
Good luck.

 

[Jerold]

Thx diem for a good explanation of toe in..that was my main question.how it affects straight line passes. Something else is wrong then because almost every pass after I look at my wheels and the front change from where they were when I first started..my stearing links are tight .nothing loose but yet wheels have a slight play .I don't get it.this vehicle has allways giving me issues with getting straight passes.im constantly adjusting as I'm doing a run.its pissing me off .I upgraded the suspension thinking it would be better .which it is but I still have issues.

You can think of toe on a car like looking at your feet. Toe in means your toes point inwards (pigeon toed), toe out means your toes point outwards (duck footed).

The purpose of toe in/out are to create friction between the tires and the road to change the characteristic of the handling. Toe in makes it track straighter while toe out makes the steering more responsive.

Ideally we want to optimize for the least friction (zero toe or dead straight) in a straight line for speed runs. However, if you have to err on one side or the other, I would go with toe in to help it track straighter.

There is a ton of slop in the factory "setup". On mine there was nothing straight, right or aligned about it. I had to go through everything. You are probably feeling the slop in the pillow balls, the hub and the control arms.

Take a look at my build log #23 and I have notes on how I removed it. Let me know if you have questions. Some adjustments, washers and "speed rings".

I hope that helps.

 

[King blitz]

You can think of toe on a car like looking at your feet. Toe in means your toes point inwards (pigeon toed), toe out means your toes point outwards (duck footed).

The purpose of toe in/out are to create friction between the tires and the road to change the characteristic of the handling. Toe in makes it track straighter while toe out makes the steering more responsive.

Ideally we want to optimize for the least friction (zero toe or dead straight) in a straight line for speed runs. However, if you have to err on one side or the other, I would go with toe in to help it track straighter.

There is a ton of slop in the factory "setup". On mine there was nothing straight, right or aligned about it. I had to go through everything. You are probably feeling the slop in the pillow balls, the hub and the control arms.

Take a look at my build log #23 and I have notes on how I removed it. Let me know if you have questions. Some adjustments, washers and "speed rings".

I hope that helps.

Yes any good info helps .thank you.. so my original question is regarding how much toe are speed runners using.i now got that info from all of you .I will bring my toe in a little and see if this helps me track straighter.but I believe I have a combination of issues that need to be addressed first.one is my servo..I need to set it to neutral .but this time as stated above by SRC I need to do it with the receiver on.it slipped my mind because after I finished the chassis extendo project I was sooped to get it back together and I forgot .as for the Big rocks stock suspension slop it was horrible..I had to add shims to almost everything.and change over a lot of the suspension components. Again excited to get this project back together again I also did not put back them shims. So that' needs to be addressed.i just got today some more new parts that I ordered from Jenny's RC to complete my project .so while rippin this thing apart again I'll do all those things I mentioned and at the end I'll toe in a little.i worked 11 hours today and I'm beat.so I won't start on it today but I'll post my progress on my build thread. again thank you guys .you are all the best . I appreciate this forum and some of the people on here. Oh thanks for that quick vid on the hub slop.i never thought about that..but vid was super fast and didn't explain what was done to fix that issue.but thanks anyways
https://www.arrmaforum.com/threads/big-rock-v3-3s-blx-body-and-chassis-extended-build-project.56253/

 

[Diem Turner]

appreciate this forum and some of the people on here. Oh thanks for that quick vid on the hub slop.i never thought about that..but vid was super fast and didn't explain what was done to fix that issue.but thanks anyways
https://www.arrmaforum.com/threads/big-rock-v3-3s-blx-body-and-chassis-extended-build-project.56253/

That's why he wrote, "Take a look at my build log #23 and I have notes on how I removed it. Let me know if you have questions. Some adjustments, washers and "speed rings".

 

[King blitz]

Set what to zero?

The stearing trim on the transmitter.0 meaning neutral/center .which I believe stock transmitters are just basically to start you off with.limited to true settings..I have way better transmitter s on my RC boats .think it's time to use one.at least then I can set my values correctly instead of guessing on a trim knob.just because it's pointing in the neutral position doesn't mean it's on neutral.

That's why he wrote, "Take a look at my build log #23 and I have notes on how I removed it. Let me know if you have questions. Some adjustments, washers and "speed rings".

Thank you

 

[King blitz]

Like I stated prior, the Radio must be trimmed or even "sub" trimmed to Zero/ neutral. (depending on your radio) You cannot/should not attempt any alignment until you do this. You will be chasing a ghost. Spinning your wheels.
Maybe this is what you are having a problem with? IDK.
Be patient.
I can sometimes spend hours doing my initial alignment. Before all measures out at the front and rear. Tracking correct etc. Fr Camber also plays a part in this. Check it frequently along with your Fr. Toe setting. One change impacts the other to varying degrees. And Too much camber on one side can cause the rig to not go straight, despite the Toe being set properly. Start with Camber Equal on both sides. I try for Zero camber (On road), or slightly Neg (Off road). Then double check after every minor Toe change.
Good luck.

Thank you SRC .good info.

 

[SrC]

I use 6s RTR diff shims to shim the outer Hub BB's. (Tekno TKR1222) One or 2 placed behind the BB inside the Hub first before installing the BB back in, to do this. The diff BB's are identical in size to the outer Hub BB's. FWIW.
Not too tight however. You want the slightest tick of "Play" or your BB's will bind. That's NG. I do this at both front and rear. Some hubs only need one. Depending. I also use Teflon Tape strips inside sloppy Rod ends, throughout the the whole rig, then pop the balls back in. Then snip off any excess T. Tape. This gets rid of much slop also, if you are so inclined and this matters. Address the slop first. Then align all.
Good luck.

 

[King blitz]

I use 6s RTR diff shims to shim the outer Hub BB's. (Tekno TKR1222) One or 2 placed behind the BB inside the Hub first before installing the BB back in, to do this. The diff BB's are identical in size to the outer Hub BB's. FWIW.
Not too tight however. You want the slightest tick of "Play" or your BB's will bind. That's NG. I do this at both front and rear. Some hubs only need one. Depending. I also use Teflon Tape strips inside sloppy Rod ends, throughout the the whole rig, then pop the balls back in. Then snip off any excess T. Tape. This gets rid of much slop also, if you are so inclined and this matters. Address the slop first. Then align all.
Good luck.

But would those type of shims work on the big rock hubs?

 

[SrC]

I am not sure and probably not. What are the diameters of the BR outer hub BBs? As I don't own any 4x4's.
Just need the correct size diameter shim.

 

[Jerold]

But would those type of shims work on the big rock hubs?

You'll need to see what size hub (look at the bearing spec) you have then match up the shim. That particular Tekno shim is 13x16x.1 (inside x outside x thickness). The idea is the shim allows you to put pressure on the inside bearing race (lock it in to the hub) and keep the outer race from touching the hub. This helps the bearing spin more efficiently.

 

[King blitz]

You'll need to see what size hub (look at the bearing spec) you have then match up the shim. That particular Tekno shim is 13x16x.1 (inside x outside x thickness). The idea is the shim allows you to put pressure on the inside bearing race (lock it in to the hub) and keep the outer race from touching the hub. This helps the bearing spin more efficiently.

Thank you..

 

[SrC]

Yeah the slop is created because of the poor tolerance's between the Stub axel, the hubs themselves, and the I.D. of the BB. Shimming will keep the outer BB square to the Axel stub. The wheel will rock less. Like 90% less. Hence less slop overall, and the resulting poor sloppy Camber and Toe it brings with it.
Many who bash say it doesn't matter. They deal with it. And is fine.
But once most of the slop is removed throughout the suspension and steering, the rig feels totally different. What I observed. Mostly benefitial with speed running. Or bashing On Pavement.