Kraton Bashing with heavy duty springs or soft?

[LibertyMKiii]

Bashing is a new experience for me with the Kraton BLX 6s (version 4) .
Has anyone tried heavy duty springs like the Nero BLX? What were your experiences? (better or worse)
I have the 75mm 17.75 lb/in below, but have not done any bashing with them yet. I am concerned it could cause more stress on the chassis, a-arms, diff cases etc....

For comparison:
Kraton 6s
front springs 85mm (ar330507) 6.2 lb/in
rear springs 95mm (ar330508) 5.0 lb/in

Nero BLX
65mm shock spring 28.1667 lb/in AR330419
75mm shock spring 17.75 lb/in AR330417
65mm shock spring 23 lb/in AR330347

 

[Mr.Duke]

The length and stiffness are going to be problematic as they were designed for the Neros cantilever suspension where the rocker arm provides the leverage needed to compress the spring. You could probably thread the Kraton shocks all the way down and get it to hold the spring down but I'd imagine it would be very stiff

 

[SrC]

Bashing is a new experience for me with the Kraton BLX 6s (version 4) .
Has anyone tried heavy duty springs like the Nero BLX? What were your experiences? (better or worse)
I have the 75mm 17.75 lb/in below, but have not done any bashing with them yet. I am concerned it could cause more stress on the chassis, a-arms, diff cases etc....

For comparison:
Kraton 6s
front springs 85mm (ar330507) 6.2 lb/in
rear springs 95mm (ar330508) 5.0 lb/in

Nero BLX
65mm shock spring 28.1667 lb/in AR330419
75mm shock spring 17.75 lb/in AR330417
65mm shock spring 23 lb/in AR330347

I like this subject as I have been considering the same. But I am using the OE springs. There are some threads that mention this somewhere on this forum. But the general consensus is that most bashers are going firmer and they tend to go with Tekno Brand springs which are drop in replacements. I have a Tekno MT410 which is equivalent in dimensions to the Outcast and NOTO. Wheelbase wise. How much firmer is the real question and I am sure that would be personal opinion. I have decided to get used to the OE springs so I have a baseline feel for my V4 Kraton and Noto. I feel the Kraton needs the firmer springs more so than my Noto. I am sure others have different ideas on that.
lets wait for others to chime in. But this has been discussed somewhere else on AF.
How you personally bash is the real question. And as such a specific spring rate is subjective. Are you getting big air. Are you just driving technical high speed over flat ground, etc. Do you want to control traction rolling issues? Sway bars have a lot to do with spring rates in that scenario. Do you want to control chassis slapping when landing big air? There are trade offs with firmer spring rates.
I would rather change shock fluids or pistons first. Shock Damping is a key factor along with spring rates. The right balance of shock fluid "Packing" and "spring rate" is a science unto itself.
My MT410 is 2-3 pounds lighter by comparison to my Kraton, Noto. and Outcast. So Tekno spring rates are relative in that regard.

 

[Mr.Duke]

The Tekno springs were stiffer when compared to Arrmas v1 and v2 springs. V3 and v4 versions have higher spring rates than the Tekno orange springs so switching those out would soften the suspension slightly over running stock springs

 

[SrC]

The length and stiffness are going to be problematic as they were designed for the Neros cantilever suspension where the rocker arm provides the leverage needed to compress the spring. You could probably thread the Kraton shocks all the way down and get it to hold the spring down but I'd imagine it would be very stiff

That is a great point. I agree. But remember adjusting spring tension doesn't necessarily "stiffen" the shock but alters ride height. The diameter of the Spring wire determines stiffness. This is what determines spring rates of different springs. In a variable rate spring scenario you may get that change in spring rate based on height adjustment. But we don't use these springs on our rigs.

 

[BigBassBrent]

I would rather change shock fluids or pistons first. Shock Damping is a key factor along with spring rates. The right balance of shock fluid "Packing" and "spring rate" is a science unto itself.

This. You are going to get better results by changing your shock pistons to ones with less or smaller holes than stock. You could go heavier oil but I think stock it's already got 55wt oil which is super heavy already. The smaller pistons slow down the shock compression when you land. Spring rate is generally only used to keep your chassis suspended above the ground when driving, not jumping. This is the way I understand it.

 

[LibertyMKiii]

This. You are going to get better results by changing your shock pistons to ones with less or smaller holes than stock. You could go heavier oil but I think stock it's already got 55wt oil which is super heavy already. The smaller pistons slow down the shock compression when you land. Spring rate is generally only used to keep your chassis suspended above the ground when driving, not jumping. This is the way I understand it.

Sounds good to me. To be honest the stock setup has been perfectly fine for me when doing flips etc. Chassis slaps don't bother me a bit as long as things don't break... Adding a heavier weight fluid or tuning the pistons does sound like the best option. It would be good to do considering my Turnigy 6s pack is a bit heavy.

I was using the Nero BLX springs for speed runner purposes, but now I'm done with that for the Kraton finding the max of the BLX 185 system was 96mph for me. (For reference 75mm springs fit the Kraton shocks fine but have very minimal travel.)

 

[PaPa Thorn]

I'm running stock springs now and remember when making my lists of parts I needed for upgrades listing the Tekno oranges, but then noticed they were all old posts.

I was wondering what springs to use now if I wanted to make the front end a little stiffer. When hitting the brakes the front end dips too much and the truck likes to catapult it's self.

I know, don't hit the brakes so hard and the truck won't catapult, but I'd be happy with less dip.

 

[BigBassBrent]

I'm running stock springs now and remember when making my lists of parts I needed for upgrades listing the Tekno oranges, but then noticed they were all old posts.

I was wondering what springs to use now if I wanted to make the front end a little stiffer. When hitting the brakes the front end dips too much and the truck likes to catapult it's self.

I know, don't hit the brakes so hard and the truck won't catapult, but I'd be happy with less dip.

Try playing with your ride height since it effects your vehicles weight transfer. Lower the rear some or raise the front using the shock collars. With the rear slightly lower than the front, you should see less weight transfer to the front under hard braking.

 

[PaPa Thorn]

Try playing with your ride height since it effects your vehicles weight transfer. Lower the rear some or raise the front using the shock collars. With the rear slightly lower than the front, you should see less weight transfer to the front under hard braking.

Thank you.

 

[BigBassBrent]

Thank you.

You are welcome. Happy to share what I have learned. When I first started I had no idea what affects what in regards to suspension setup. I want to start racing so Ive really been studying all this stuff. Have a great day!

 

[WTF MIKE]

I'm running stock springs now and remember when making my lists of parts I needed for upgrades listing the Tekno oranges, but then noticed they were all old posts.

I was wondering what springs to use now if I wanted to make the front end a little stiffer. When hitting the brakes the front end dips too much and the truck likes to catapult it's self.

I know, don't hit the brakes so hard and the truck won't catapult, but I'd be happy with less dip.

You can also try using rear springs in the front

 

[SrC]

This. You are going to get better results by changing your shock pistons to ones with less or smaller holes than stock. You could go heavier oil but I think stock it's already got 55wt oil which is super heavy already. The smaller pistons slow down the shock compression when you land. Spring rate is generally only used to keep your chassis suspended above the ground when driving, not jumping. This is the way I understand it.

Absolutely true.

Try playing with your ride height since it effects your vehicles weight transfer. Lower the rear some or raise the front using the shock collars. With the rear slightly lower than the front, you should see less weight transfer to the front under hard braking.

Lets not forget the droop setting also, when considering ride hight

 

[BigBassBrent]

Absolutely true.

Lets not forget the droop setting also, when considering ride hight

Absolutely, droop also has a profound effect on weight transfer! Tightening the droop screws in the rear a little (arms travel less) will cause less weight transfer under braking as well. Thanks for the reminder.

 

[SrC]

Absolutely, droop also has a profound effect on weight transfer! Tightening the droop screws in the rear a little (arms travel less) will cause less weight transfer under braking as well. Thanks for the reminder.

I use front and rear droop to dial out some unwanted wheelies , diffing out, etc.

 

[Jake H.]

I'm running stock springs now and remember when making my lists of parts I needed for upgrades listing the Tekno oranges, but then noticed they were all old posts.

I was wondering what springs to use now if I wanted to make the front end a little stiffer. When hitting the brakes the front end dips too much and the truck likes to catapult it's self.

I know, don't hit the brakes so hard and the truck won't catapult, but I'd be happy with less dip.

I had the same problem with th

I'm running stock springs now and remember when making my lists of parts I needed for upgrades listing the Tekno oranges, but then noticed they were all old posts.

I was wondering what springs to use now if I wanted to make the front end a little stiffer. When hitting the brakes the front end dips too much and the truck likes to catapult it's self.

I know, don't hit the brakes so hard and the truck won't catapult, but I'd be happy with less dip.

I had the same issue. Mine was dipping so far my front right dogbone would pop out and get jammed in the cup 90° from where it should be so I'd have to take it apart to fix. I refilled my shocks all the way around and put the caps on them WITHOUT compressing the piston and put my front spring tension tighter so there were 3/4" of an inch threads showing on top. Went 1/2" for back and it's been golden now!

I'm running stock springs now and remember when making my lists of parts I needed for upgrades listing the Tekno oranges, but then noticed they were all old posts.

I was wondering what springs to use now if I wanted to make the front end a little stiffer. When hitting the brakes the front end dips too much and the truck likes to catapult it's self.

I know, don't hit the brakes so hard and the truck won't catapult, but I'd be happy with less dip.

I had the same issue. Mine was dipping so far my front right dogbone would pop out and get jammed in the cup 90° from where it should be so I'd have to take it apart to fix. I refilled my shocks all the way around and put the caps on them WITHOUT compressing the piston and put my front spring tension tighter so there were 3/4" of an inch of the threads showing on top. Went 1/2" for back and it's been golden now!

 

[nino]

One thing that i never saw mentioned on this forum... Shock positions. Although Arrmas don't have much tuning options in that regard (3 holes up top, only one on the bottom IIRC), they will have an effect on handling. RPM arms have 2 bottom positions, I think...

 

[DoNoHarm]

I’ve always been a guy to run heavy duty. A lot of my trucks have very stiff suspension with very high weight shock oil to absorb impacts. The downside of this is your shocks tend to get banged up in various ways, one of the more common ones is blowing out the piston.

 

[SrC]

One thing that i never saw mentioned on this forum... Shock positions. Although Arrmas don't have much tuning options in that regard (3 holes up top, only one on the bottom IIRC), they will have an effect on handling. RPM arms have 2 bottom positions, I think...

I like to lay down my shocks when I have that adjustability. ie. RPM arms. or move the top of the shocks inward using the OE holes in the Shock towers.

I’ve always been a guy to run heavy duty. A lot of my trucks have very stiff suspension with very high weight shock oil to absorb impacts. The downside of this is your shocks tend to get banged up in various ways, one of the more common ones is blowing out the piston.

That's why I rather lay down the shocks first. If you are trying to reduce chassis slap to "zero", don't approach it from that objective.
Bent piston rods, cracked pistons and snapped arms usually result. And all this depends on how much air you are looking for.

 

[DoNoHarm]

I like to lay down my shocks when I have that adjustability. ie. RPM arms. or move the top of the shocks inward using the OE holes in the Shock towers.

That's why I rather lay down the shocks first. If you are trying to reduce chassis slap to "zero", don't approach it from that objective.
Bent piston rods, cracked pistons and snapped arms usually result. And all this depends on how much air you are looking for.

I wouldn’t say I’m trying to reduce my chassis slap to 0, I’m just trying to make the suspension do a little bit of cushion after coming down.