Kraton Brand new Kraton 4s v2 problems.

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oh ok, so anyway with 2100kv/20t pinion the gearing was raised from stock 50mph to almost 70, i would think that motor can handle it 🤷‍♂️ so it must be something else in the system, some bad soldering somewhere that limits the amps, or bad batteries
 
2100kv which is lower than the stock 2400kv. I don't understand how a 20t pinion is geared too high and is the causes of my cogging. Is it just a 3s/4s arrma thing? something related to the drivetrain? I can put this same motor in a kraton 6s with a 20t pinion and have zero problems.

Smallest pinion I even have is 17t which I'm going to try in the morning. If it really is my 20t pinion I think I finally learned my lesson on these 3s and 4s rigs. That is unacceptable to me so I'd honestly rather have it be something else I can fix lol.


I also just tried changing the ESC and the motor at the same time and nothing changed lol.

I understand your frustration, but seems like you are not doing a simple process of elimination. You switched motors, but to a really high KV, and still used a pinion that I think was way too large for the motor.

Why not try a smaller pinion with the original motor? You said you have a 17t - that is what I would try. I honestly think 15t is where you should be since you are not using a sensored setup.

I quit doing anything with sensorless below 6s. Cogging always seems to be an issue. I hate hesitation.
Seems as if you are trying to avoid getting the answer of you are not selecting correct gearing for the setup.
 
I actually did put an 18t on the first motor but I haven't tried it yet. The 2nd motor I tried was my 3770kv which is obviously too high of a kv but it was the easiest for me to try but still nothing changed.

Everything in that video was wrong haha. The slipping when going from reverse to forward and toward the end of the video where it looks like i'm pressing the throttle over and over but in reality i'm mashing the throttle and the truck sounds like a dying bird before it takes off.

I haven't tried the rwd yet but I will do that next. I've now spent 2 days on this thing just trying everything I could think off and I'm regretting my purchase.
Go over the Slipper Clutch for starters.
I can't tell if its the slipper or just extreme cogging from the video.
Could even be a combination of both??:unsure:
Don't rule out poor Radio/Rx response/glitching with that RTR radio. Try a Rebind if you haven't already.
But you did say you changed out the Rx already????:unsure: Make sure the Rx antenna is properly setup....
Some more ideas.....
:cool:
 
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2100kv which is lower than the stock 2400kv. I don't understand how a 20t pinion is geared too high and is the causes of my cogging. Is it just a 3s/4s arrma thing? something related to the drivetrain? I can put this same motor in a kraton 6s with a 20t pinion and have zero problems.

Smallest pinion I even have is 17t which I'm going to try in the morning. If it really is my 20t pinion I think I finally learned my lesson on these 3s and 4s rigs. That is unacceptable to me so I'd honestly rather have it be something else I can fix lol.


I also just tried changing the ESC and the motor at the same time and nothing changed lol.
throw it in the bin or through the window ;)
 
Changing pinions is one of the lowest cost things one can do to try and solve a cogging issue. I know it's a pain to pull the power module out, but it beats spending money on things that are more expensive and might not solve the issue.
 
I'd agree with Razor that it seems strictly electrical here. Did you ever run it on the stock system? I'd try to throw that back in rather than the hobbywing and TP stuff.
 
I understand your frustration, but seems like you are not doing a simple process of elimination. You switched motors, but to a really high KV, and still used a pinion that I think was way too large for the motor.

Why not try a smaller pinion with the original motor? You said you have a 17t - that is what I would try. I honestly think 15t is where you should be since you are not using a sensored setup.

I quit doing anything with sensorless below 6s. Cogging always seems to be an issue. I hate hesitation.
Seems as if you are trying to avoid getting the answer of you are not selecting correct gearing for the setup.
It's hard for me to accept because it doesn't make logical sense to me. Some of you say gearing is the issue, well okay but then why is it not an issue in the 6s kraton. Why can the same gearing work just fine in 6s kraton but not in the 4s kraton. Even with both of them on 6s. I wish someone could explain it to me as it doesn't make sense. If it's my gearing why does even bigger gearing with damn near same setup work just fine on a 6s rig.

For those dots to connect I have to be missing something.
I'd agree with Razor that it seems strictly electrical here. Did you ever run it on the stock system? I'd try to throw that back in rather than the hobbywing and TP stuff.
I really wish I would have now. I didn't because I was planning to sell them as never ran and I'm an honest person 🤣
Go over the Slipper Clutch for starters.
I can't tell if its the slipper or just extreme cogging from the video.
Could even be a combination of both??:unsure:
Don't rule out poor Radio/Rx response/glitching with that RTR radio. Try a Rebind if you haven't already.
But you did say you changed out the Rx already????:unsure: Make sure the Rx antenna is properly setup....
Some more ideas.....
:cool:
I did try stock radio and my radiolink with a new rx.
oh ok, so anyway with 2100kv/20t pinion the gearing was raised from stock 50mph to almost 70, i would think that motor can handle it 🤷‍♂️ so it must be something else in the system, some bad soldering somewhere that limits the amps, or bad batteries
This is what I'm saying too. No way a tp 4050 can't handle 70 mph on a light 4s kraton. Doesn't make sense to me. I'm about to go try smaller pinion though
 
It's hard for me to accept because it doesn't make logical sense to me. Some of you say gearing is the issue, well okay but then why is it not an issue in the 6s kraton. Why can the same gearing work just fine in 6s kraton but not in the 4s kraton. Even with both of them on 6s. I wish someone could explain it to me as it doesn't make sense. If it's my gearing why does even bigger gearing with damn near same setup work just fine on a 6s rig.

For those dots to connect I have to be missing something.
It's all about torque: the 6s Kraton comes with a 2050kv motor, and the Kraton 4s V1 comes with a 2400kv motor. Higher kv motors have more speed and less torque, and lower kv motors have less speed and more torque. Higher kv motors are more sensitive to over gearing than lower kv motors.
 
It's all about torque: the 6s Kraton comes with a 2050kv motor, and the Kraton 4s V1 comes with a 2400kv motor. Higher kv motors have more speed and less torque, and lower kv motors have less speed and more torque. Higher kv motors are more sensitive to over gearing than lower kv motors.
I think you're misunderstanding. I used same motor, same Kv, even bigger gearing with bigger tires and zero problems on 6s kraton. And this is a tp motor, 40x82mm and it does violent standing backflips on 6s kraton. Only difference is max 6 vs the new max 8 g2 and both are rated 160a esc.
 
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I think you're misunderstanding. I used same motor, same. Kv, even bigger gearing with bigger tires and zero problems on 6s kraton. And this is a tp motor, 40x82mm and it does violent standing backflips on 6s kraton. Only difference is max 6 vs the new max 8 g2 and both are rated 160a esc.
Did you ever consider the Final drive ratio's. They are different for the 4s and 6s lines. When it comes to gearing, it is just not the Pinion, it is the Final drive gearing overall, that results and makes a difference. Even tires size (roll out) will affect the final drive. So cogging will vary.
Some cogging is normal with any BLX setp. Unless you are running a "Sensored" BLX setup. Some Cogging will always be present. Just should not be to the point it is undriveable. A rolling soft throttle should be smooth enough. Not stuttering.
 
Did you ever consider the Final drive ratio's. They are different for the 4s and 6s lines. When it comes to gearing, it is just not the Pinion, it is the Final drive gearing overall, that results and makes a difference. Even tires size (roll out) will affect the final drive. So cogging will vary.
Some cogging is normal with any BLX setp. Unless you are running a "Sensored" BLX setup. Some Cogging will always be present. Just should not be to the point it is undriveable. A rolling soft throttle should be smooth enough. Not stuttering.

Yup, there is another round of internal gearing reduction between the diff input gears to the diff ring gears. And then again obviously with your choice of tires.
 
It's hard for me to accept because it doesn't make logical sense to me. Some of you say gearing is the issue, well okay but then why is it not an issue in the 6s kraton. Why can the same gearing work just fine in 6s kraton but not in the 4s kraton. Even with both of them on 6s. I wish someone could explain it to me as it doesn't make sense. If it's my gearing why does even bigger gearing with damn near same setup work just fine on a 6s rig.
It's simple, the 4s cars are geared much higher than the 6s cars.. they both do 50mph on 12/13 pinions, but the 4s car is making it on 4s.. so it means the final gear ratio is higher (33% higher than the 6s car) to achieve that

try running the 6s cars on gearing that will give you 70mph on 4s (which means using a 25t pinion), and you'll see that you would get the same cogging on the 6s cars. (actually worse cogging.. as the 6s cars are heavier)

let put it in numbers, with a 20t pinion:
Kraton 6s final gear ratio: (50t spur / 20t pinion) * (43t crown / 10t input gear) = 10.75
Kraton 42 final gear ratio: (57t spur / 20t pinion) * (37t crown / 13t input gear) = 8.11
 
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wow that's interesting and definitely didn't realize the difference was big enough to cause problems. If that is the case, then I have to chalk it up to a limitation of the platform. I would have just gone sensored if I knew it would be a problem to run a 20t pinion.

Thanks for the explanations. :eek::cry::ROFLMAO:
 
Again, what we're saying is that the pinion/spur ratio is just half of the equation.. 20t on the 4s cars is like 25t on the 6s cars (give or take.. depends on the tires as well)

If you want 70mph and much much less cogging on the 4s cars, then run 6s and a 14t pinion. this will give you the same speed as 20t on the 6s cars
 
wow that's interesting and definitely didn't realize the difference was big enough to cause problems. If that is the case, then I have to chalk it up to a limitation of the platform. I would have just gone sensored if I knew it would be a problem to run a 20t pinion.

Thanks for the explanations. :eek::cry::ROFLMAO:
Thing is, you don't need a big pinion. Run a 15t or maybe 17t....will be faster than you need, unless you are speed running....which you will have smaller street tires, etc., and can go bigger.
 
wow that's interesting and definitely didn't realize the difference was big enough to cause problems. If that is the case, then I have to chalk it up to a limitation of the platform. I would have just gone sensored if I knew it would be a problem to run a 20t pinion.

Thanks for the explanations. :eek::cry::ROFLMAO:
Hit me up if you decide to part ways with the Kraton 4s...:sneaky: lol
 
Again, what we're saying is that the pinion/spur ratio is just half of the equation.. 20t on the 4s cars is like 25t on the 6s cars (give or take.. depends on the tires as well)

If you want 70mph and much much less cogging on the 4s cars, then run 6s and a 14t pinion. this will give you the same speed as 20t on the 6s cars
It must be much worse than 25t on a 6s rig. I've run pinions larger than that on 6s rigs and have never experienced cogging until I went to the 3s/4s line. The interesting thing though is the fact that even on 6s the kraton 4s was still cogging.

Thing is, you don't need a big pinion. Run a 15t or maybe 17t....will be faster than you need, unless you are speed running....which you will have smaller street tires, etc., and can go bigger.
I like to be able to go fast. It's why I overpower all my electronics. If I need a little less umph then I turn down throttle epa or max power. For example, my Kraton 8s is geared for about 75 mph and I bash with that gearing. My slowest 6s rig is my Kraton 6s with max 6 1650 kv combo geared 24/50. Even my Talion geared 25/46 with a tp 4070 2080kv

Most people probably fine with going 50 mph but that is slow to me.
 
With which tires?

Methodrc SC tires which are about same size as stock mojave. I also run backflip lp and 6s backflips. I've also tried the methodrc Mt tires and fireteam tires. All ran great but I do have to turn down max power when jumping or I risk blowing tires if not belted. Actually not even a risk, they will blow 🤣
 
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