Kraton Bullet Proof diff question

[ParkRacing]

I've only shimmed my center diff thus far, too busy with kids/life of late, I used 2 planetary total and 6 total satellite shims with 100k fluid and has been working great in Typhon where I had planetary gear breakage before. Plan to replace F/R diff fluids soon with new Outcast and shim if needed once gears break in and foul up fluid, in a pack or 2 more. 100k center worked well on Outcast maiden voyage, leaving to bash now.

I did notice a lot of metal in diff fluid! I hope that actually makes them smoother with some wear?

I've only shimmed my center diff thus far, too busy with kids/life of late, I used 2 planetary total and 6 total satellite shims with 100k fluid and has been working great in Typhon where I had planetary gear breakage before. Plan to replace F/R diff fluids soon with new Outcast and shim if needed once gears break in and foul up fluid, in a pack or 2 more. 100k center worked well on Outcast maiden voyage, leaving to bash now.

How do you like the outcast battery tray? Should I put one on my Kraton?

 

[Rich Duperbash]

I did notice a lot of metal in diff fluid! I hope that actually makes them smoother with some wear?


How do you like the outcast battery tray? Should I put one on my Kraton?

The gears should get smoother after break-in. The Outcast tray is bad azz! Really locks baby in their great, love this design.

 

[ParkRacing]

The gears should get smoother after break-in. The Outcast tray is bad azz! Really locks baby in their great, love this design.

Are you gonna put one in the Kraton?

 

[Rich Duperbash]

Are you gonna put one in the Kraton?

I only have 2 Typhons and new Outcast among other bashers, wouldn't mind a Kraton, they look sweet and take a good beating from what I have seen.

 

[Timritchieblue]

Built my diffs with the team (2) Durango shims, (6) Team Associated spider gear shims, made some drill bit blanks for pins. Run 50/300/20k fluid,, diffs are perfect, ran whole 6s pack on leopard 4092 (1480kv) HW QUICRUN punch set to 9 (Max). Broke nothing, not many truggys can handle that much torque, power

 

[Rich Duperbash]

That motor sounds sick! Looks like a torque monster you have there.

 

[ParkRacing]

Built my diffs with the team (2) Durango shims, (6) Team Associated spider gear shims, made some drill bit blanks for pins. Run 50/300/20k fluid,, diffs are perfect, ran whole 6s pack on leopard 4092 (1480kv) HW QUICRUN punch set to 9 (Max). Broke nothing, not many truggys can handle that much torque, power

Where did you get the drill bit blanks? And how much?

 

[Timritchieblue]

Where did you get the drill bit blanks? And how much?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/10PCS-0-3-3...hash=item2caea23dfe:m:mfkgLM6KgBzT_eqqfoDyMiQ

Takes about 2-3 weeks for delivery

 

[ParkRacing]

Well guess what guys...... I did the shimming and everything else in the video. Did super heavy diff oil ran it thru three packs and decided the oil was too thick for my taste, I am going with a standard truggy set up of 7 10 3...
Anyways what I wanted to say was when I pulled the front diff apart guess what.... a diff pin was broken in three pieces. So yeah a pin can easily break before a diff gear.

This must have happend at the very end of the run because there were no issues!

This is interesting! I finally got around to rebuilding all the diffs and guess what all three of them each had a broken pin? I don't know how this happened the thing was driving absolutely fine nothing weird at all and when I pull apart the diffs to change out all the oil like I said each had a broken pin? I removed the extra shims behind the spider gears as my diffs were now too tight.

 

[Rich Duperbash]

This is interesting! I finally got around to rebuilding all the diffs and guess what all three of them each had a broken pin? I don't know how this happened the thing was driving absolutely fine nothing weird at all and when I pull apart the diffs to change out all the oil like I said each had a broken pin? I removed the extra shims behind the spider gears as my diffs were now too tight.

It looks like the pins essentially cracked straight across in near perfect 1/3rd pieces. My guess is that had your diffs not been shimmed the planetary gears would have popped forward off the cracked pin. Due to having no where to fall out of and being split straight across, those split pins stayed put and kept spinning gears. That's sort of crazy, but the pins job is really just to spin and occupy space and that it did! I'd look into drill blank upgrade or try different brand pin. Not sure it was a shimming issue, perhaps weakest link payed the power debt. Any hard landings with big open throttle?

 

[Cater4anytink]

Guy's reading all your post....it's clear i've got so much to learn

 

[ParkRacing]

It looks like the pins essentially cracked straight across in near perfect 1/3rd pieces. My guess is that had your diffs not been shimmed the planetary gears would have popped forward off the cracked pin. Due to having no where to fall out of and being split straight across, those split pins stayed put and kept spinning gears. That's sort of crazy, but the pins job is really just to spin and occupy space and that it did! I'd look into drill blank upgrade or try different brand pin. Not sure it was a shimming issue, perhaps weakest link payed the power debt. Any hard landings with big open throttle?

I don't bash super hard and I am an experienced racer so I know how to drive. 5s lipo and 1800 kv motor so nothing too crazy! Haven't even jumped more than three feet high yet. All those pins broke after three battery packs. Drill blanks on the way. They were shimmed and built exactly as the video.

I kept those pins as is for now....I have not busted anything in the diffs so far. I thought about doing it because I have cracked those types of pins in other vehicles... I shimmed the Kraton's diffs but kept the pin as is for now.

One thing I can mention to you on your build....if your front suspension is all the way down, you may feel the diff binding while turning one of the wheels. Mine was doing that and I decided to correct it. I just added a flat washer to the end of one of the A-arms. It moves the dog-bone away from the inner diff cup. This way it doesn't jam into the diff cup when the suspension is traveling all the way down and up. Jamming the diff cup like that may cause a gear to crack.

Some people noticed this and some didn't

Glad I reread my post, I forgot you mentioned to do this! Mine binds bad!

 

[Rich Duperbash]

I don't bash super hard and I am an experienced racer so I know how to drive. 5s LiPo and 1800 kv motor so nothing too crazy! Haven't even jumped more than three feet high yet. All those pins broke after three battery packs. Drill blanks on the way. They were shimmed and built exactly as the video.


Glad I reread my post, I forgot you mentioned to do this! Mine binds bad!

ParkRacing hope my post didn't come off wrong. Didn't mean to imply anything about your driving habits etc...I bash the crap out of my stuff, just curious about how metal parts fail. I only asked cuz my planetary gears both broke like ceramic plates after a high speed flip and land whilst near WOT on Typhon on son's school black top. I've since developed my own deceleration theory on RC drivetrain. That being when motor really gets spinning hard, the rotational mass of spur gear works against rest of diff gear/drive train in the event of sudden 4 wheel deceleration. The energy doesn't just disappear but super loads every part between pinion and tire leaving weakest link in chain vulnerable to failure. To me driving RCs is a freedom of expression like playing a musical instrument etc.. It's all what you like. When something fails with my RCs I ponder what happened with an open mind for causation. No offense intended.

 

[ParkRacing]

ParkRacing hope my post didn't come off wrong. Didn't mean to imply anything about your driving habits etc...I bash the crap out of my stuff, just curious about how metal parts fail. I only asked cuz my planetary gears both broke like ceramic plates after a high speed flip and land whilst near WOT on Typhon on son's school black top. I've since developed my own deceleration theory on RC drivetrain. That being when motor really gets spinning hard, the rotational mass of spur gear works against rest of diff gear/drive train in the event of sudden 4 wheel deceleration. The energy doesn't just disappear but super loads every part between pinion and tire leaving weakest link in chain vulnerable to failure. To me driving RCs is a freedom of expression like playing a musical instrument etc.. It's all what you like. When something fails with my RCs I ponder what happened with an open mind for causation. No offense intended.

Oh no offense at all, I like to make things very clear so that people can understand exactly where I'm coming from. The better I explain my driving style and exactly the kind of power I making with it, people will better understand that it's not an issue of overpower or just bashing the crap out of it. I also like to make it clear that I've raced buggies and truggies before and never broken one of these pins so this is a very unusual for me?

You are correct heth....I just corrected the problem on mine and at the same time got the camber where I wanted it. I had to mess around with a few washers and spacers both top and bottom. It didn't take much but I got it where it's fine for me. My front tires seem to have zero camber. It runs fine like that....It's no race vehicle so I don't think about it for too long. I do like that I don't feel that binding in the front diff. I rather have zero camber or slight negative....as long as it's acceptable...I'm good. I prefer a steel flat washer over the plastic C shaped shims. I kept loosing the C shaped plastic shims, they kept falling out.

Any pictures Vanning, so I can see how many washers you used!

 

[Rich Duperbash]

Oh no offense at all, I like to make things very clear so that people can understand exactly where I'm coming from. The better I explain my driving style and exactly the kind of power I making with it, people will better understand that it's not an issue of overpower or just bashing the crap out of it. I also like to make it clear that I've raced buggies and truggies before and never broken one of these pins so this is a very unusual for me?


Any pictures Vanning, so I can see how many washers you used!

Cool. When you think about it, that tiny pin really gets a lot asked of it within these fairly heavy big power setups. I'm still amazed at the punishment these beasts tolerate. Still need to shim the rest of my diffs myself, it's a good thing your gears/diff was otherwise spared. Could have became like a blender or coffee grinder in there.

 

[CL-Audio]

Cool. When you think about it, that tiny pin really gets a lot asked of it within these fairly heavy big power setups. I'm still amazed at the punishment these beasts tolerate. Still need to shim the rest of my diffs myself, it's a good thing your gears/diff was otherwise spared. Could have became like a blender or coffee grinder in there.

@Rich Duperbash - Don't forget to put that "mystery spacer" on when you shim your diffs, lol!!

 

[Rich Duperbash]

@Rich Duperbash - Don't forget to put that "mystery spacer" on when you shim your diffs, lol!!

Dude that's funny. Had full on carnage bash today with son and daughter at new, rough, sketchy jump spot. Busted wings, body damage, slipped pinion, ate into motor mount. Crap! Finished with Typhon in rear wheel drive mode, so actually will be cracking another diff open tomorrow if it wasn't just a loose diff output cup. We had fun but way too many lid and wing landings, mostly my kids. Kraton rode straight over the Typhon head on and actually caught a pretty good air! Outcast buggy body and 16 tooth pinion may be taking a permanent vacation. Teeth not so straight on one side.

 

[CL-Audio]

Dude that's funny. Had full on carnage bash today with son and daughter at new, rough, sketchy jump spot. Busted wings, body damage, slipped pinion, ate into motor mount. Crap! Finished with Typhon in rear wheel drive mode, so actually will be cracking another diff open tomorrow if it wasn't just a loose diff output cup. We had fun but way too many lid and wing landings, mostly my kids. Kraton rode straight over the Typhon head on and actually caught a pretty good air! Outcast buggy body and 16 tooth pinion may be taking a permanent vacation. Teeth not so straight on one side.

Sheesh! Remind me not to let you ever run my rc's! Lol. I'm reconsidering my desire for my daughter to grow up wanting to bash with me as well! Rc cars equal time and money. I've had my Kraton in pieces for like two weeks now. Started with just wanting to swap the pinion turned into tuning all the diffs, then replace all the bearings with avids, then swap on a new esc. I just need to get it back together and run the thing.

 

[ParkRacing]

Dude that's funny. Had full on carnage bash today with son and daughter at new, rough, sketchy jump spot. Busted wings, body damage, slipped pinion, ate into motor mount. Crap! Finished with Typhon in rear wheel drive mode, so actually will be cracking another diff open tomorrow if it wasn't just a loose diff output cup. We had fun but way too many lid and wing landings, mostly my kids. Kraton rode straight over the Typhon head on and actually caught a pretty good air! Outcast buggy body and 16 tooth pinion may be taking a permanent vacation. Teeth not so straight on one side.

It's amazing what my 6 yo son can do to my crawler that tops out at 10 mph! Lol

 

[Rich Duperbash]

Cracked open son's Typhon center diff to check for carnage and why last bash ended in rear wheel drive only. Another failed planetary gear, pin was intact, should have shimmed his with TD planetary shims, just hadn't gotten to it yet. Granted last bash was over the top, borderline RC abuse, terrain was too big for buggy, but that little Typhon still kicked butt. It really is a compact, tough mini beast. I went ahead and truggified it with Kraton axels, hex's, hubs, and Proline 3.8s so my son can hang better with Kraton and Outcast on bigger terrain. Note to self, shim diffs before breakage, cheaper that way....Lol.