Castle Creation "Cryo drive" ESC RPM matching.

[JayP.]

That initial thread I opened of the "known issue" with the xlx2 WAS what would be considered an issue, and the first tech guy I talked to made it clear to me that it was, but a "fix" wouldn't be issued for a while. When I was told it was rpm matching, they didn't elaborate on it enough, so I assumed all their escs did it, and that the xlx2 was doing it incorrectly causing it to "apply" the brakes. I just got off the phone, they processed my claim, and told me everything came back perfectly, and that the "issue" I'm having is the rpm matching doing what it's supposed to do. Why would they even implement this if it's stupidly annoying to run any vehicle with? I wasn't really told the benefits of why they use this, I'm assuming it's for efficiency? But I don't see how efficient it could be to intermittently apply the brakes to match the rpm, especially when it locks up the tires sometimes. When I opened that thread originally, some people said they weren't experiencing this issue, so I'm lead to believe people didn't 100% understand what I meant? With that being said, I don't think I'd want to deal with something like that for everyday driving. Probably just going to have to settle for a max 5, which isn't ideal... It all feels like a huge waste now, absolutely ridiculous... This wouldn't be an issue if they'd allow the user to disable this, but it's most likely more complicated than that, and I won't pretend to understand how that would work. I don't have another cryo drive castle ESC in my hands to try out for myself, so I'm not even sure if what they're saying is 100% true or not. I've never seen that behavior in any videos I've watched on the mmx8s or the xlx2.

 

[LibertyMKiii]

Quite a few of us here use the MMX8s and XLX2 and as you mentioned are not experiencing this issue.
I expect the problem is that the ESC is not able to determine where the motor rotation speed is (via back emf) so it applies brakes till it can regain control of the situation.

If my theory is right.... This leads to my question: What motor are you running?
I believe this is relatively isolated behavior as you mentioned you had searched and no one has the problem. This leads me to believe it could be the motor.

Another thing we have noticed lately is if you have any dog bones that are bent or making contact the interference/impacts are felt back through the motor and can cause it to "get lost" in the rpm range.

 

[SrC]

Yeah I agree, the motor..... not the ESC, might be the issue. Perhaps you misunderstood the CC tech. If what you described is true, how are guys getting the crazy speeds with an XLX2?
What motor you running? The Combo motor? Sensored?
FWIW, sometimes the Sensor cable doesn't accurately reflect actual Motor RPM's as seen by the ESC
The cable pin outs are delicate.

 

[JayP.]

Quite a few of us here use the MMX8s and XLX2 and as you mentioned are not experiencing this issue.
I expect the problem is that the ESC is not able to determine where the motor rotation speed is (via back emf) so it applies brakes till it can regain control of the situation.

If my theory is right.... This leads to my question: What motor are you running?
I believe this is relatively isolated behavior as you mentioned you had searched and no one has the problem. This leads me to believe it could be the motor.

Another thing we have noticed lately is if you have any dog bones that are bent or making contact the interference/impacts are felt back through the motor and can cause it to "get lost" in the rpm range.

I'm running a castle 2028 1100kv motor, in a brand new vehicle with nothing even scratched on it. I told them it's basically braking every time I give it lower throttle when it's coasting, and they told me that isn't an issue... Like what the hell, I don't know what to do at this point! It's so frustrating! I've tested it with two different castle motors, sensored and sensorless and it does the same thing... They told me they're sending it back though, the exact same ESC. I don't even think I can get a refund at this point...

Yeah I agree, the motor..... not the ESC, might be the issue. Perhaps you misunderstood the CC tech. If what you described is true, how are guys getting the crazy speeds with an XLX2?
What motor you running? The Combo motor? Sensored?
FWIW, sometimes the Sensor cable doesn't accurately reflect actual Motor RPM's as seen by the ESC
The cable pin outs are delicate.

I've already tried two motors, same issue. The other motor I've tried has been running reliably for months now, so what are the chances two motors have the same issue? I just wouldn't believe that.

 

[The Donut Man]

Maybe post up a video? I've never heard of the phenomenon you're describing, but I'm curious what it looks and sounds like. That Castle motor is a torque monster; it almost sounds like you're experiencing cogging when you go from coasting to driving under power.

 

[JayP.]

Maybe post up a video? I've never heard of the phenomenon you're describing, but I'm curious what it looks and sounds like. That Castle motor is a torque monster; it almost sounds like you're experiencing cogging when you go from coasting to driving under power.

I know, I just don't get it. I have a short video of it doing it at lower speeds, but for clarification, it would do it at any speed for me. I'll post the video when I get a chance.
Here's the video, when it sounds like it's cogging, that's when I'm getting back on the throttle. Also ignore the screeching sound, the servo I got for it was defective, another great thing that happened to me once I put the build together.

I know, I just don't get it. I have a short video of it doing it at lower speeds, but for clarification, it would do it at any speed for me. I'll post the video when I get a chance.
Here's the video, when it sounds like it's cogging, that's when I'm getting back on the throttle. Also ignore the screeching sound, the servo I got for it was defective, another great thing that happened to me once I put the build together.

Nevermind, I didn't realize you can't upload MP4 files, I'll have to upload it to YouTube later when I get home from work.

 

[JayP.]

So you guys really aren't having this issue though? I really don't get it, they made it seem like the "braking" it does is normal... If some of you aren't having an issue, I'm glad to know they lied to me about that. Again, throttle, let off, then give it less throttle than the speed it's going and it brakes hard for a second. I would assume a lot of people would do this during general running, in a parking lot, field, ECT... I decided to try and upload the video from work, so it'll be up within an hour or so, hopefully.

 

[LibertyMKiii]

So you guys really aren't having this issue though? I really don't get it, they made it seem like the "braking" it does is normal... If some of you aren't having an issue, I'm glad to know they lied to me about that. Again, throttle, let off, then give it less throttle than the speed it's going and it brakes hard for a second. I would assume a lot of people would do this during general running, in a parking lot, field, ECT... I decided to try and upload the video from work, so it'll be up within an hour or so, hopefully.

I had one where even after doing the throttle calibration 2 times it was pulling the brake slightly and throttle trim fixed it. But nothing like you described.

 

[jondilly1974]

Hmm I have had my fair share of issues with the MMX8S but not a single one with the XLX2. I have the XLX2/2028-1100 combo in my Mojave and it is the smoothest thing I've ever owned. Just rolls like butter across a hot knife. I have never had a single thing happen on this setup like you describe. Not calling you out or anything, just saying I think you have something defective in your setup. I would send the combo back to Castle for inspection. They are good at finding issues. I just received tracking today for my XLX2 replacement being shipped today to replace the MMX8S I sent in for warranty. I upgraded it to an XLX2 instead. Now I have so many spares on hand.... what to do what to do...

 

[LibertyMKiii]

I upgraded it to an XLX2 instead. Now I have so many spares on hand.... what to do what to do...

Build a RC boat

 

[JayP.]

Hmm I have had my fair share of issues with the MMX8S but not a single one with the XLX2. I have the XLX2/2028-1100 combo in my Mojave and it is the smoothest thing I've ever owned. Just rolls like butter across a hot knife. I have never had a single thing happen on this setup like you describe. Not calling you out or anything, just saying I think you have something defective in your setup. I would send the combo back to Castle for inspection. They are good at finding issues. I just received tracking today for my XLX2 replacement being shipped today to replace the MMX8S I sent in for warranty. I upgraded it to an XLX2 instead. Now I have so many spares on hand.... what to do what to do...

I told them the issues I was having, and that I tested seperate motors as well, they just told me to send the ESC in, not the motor as well. When I called back they said nothing was wrong with it, and would be sending it back. It was smooth when I would crawl slow and keep the throttle consistent, but as soon as I let off then back on it would do the braking/cogging thing. I don't know how it could be the motor, I tested two seperate motors and it did the same thing. So I would assume it's the esc at fault?
Honestly if anyone themselves running an xlx2 with the 2028 1100kv motor could post a video of them trying the same thing as well, it would be much appreciated... Sensored of course, it did it to me sensored or sensorless, but I planned on running mine sensored.

 

[jondilly1974]

I told them the issues I was having, and that I tested seperate motors as well, they just told me to send the ESC in, not the motor as well. When I called back they said nothing was wrong with it, and would be sending it back. It was smooth when I would crawl slow and keep the throttle consistent, but as soon as I let off then back on it would do the braking/cogging thing. I don't know how it could be the motor, I tested two seperate motors and it did the same thing. So I would assume it's the esc at fault?
Honestly if anyone themselves running an xlx2 with the 2028 1100kv motor could post a video of them trying the same thing as well, it would be much appreciated... Sensored of course, it did it to me sensored or sensorless, but I planned on running mine sensored.

And you're certain there isn't a drag brake setup?

 

[JayP.]

And you're certain there isn't a drag brake setup?

I didn't even touch or setup drag brake whatsoever, plus it was one of the first things I checked to make sure it was COMPLETELY disabled. But I appreciate the suggestion! I even tested it with the brakes themselves completely disabled to rule that out.

 

[LibertyMKiii]

Id say try a different radio and recal the esc to the "new" radio.... just to eliminate any possibility.

 

[jondilly1974]

I didn't even touch or setup drag brake whatsoever, plus it was one of the first things I checked to make sure it was COMPLETELY disabled. But I appreciate the suggestion! I even tested it with the brakes themselves completely disabled to rule that out.

Have you defaulted it and flashed the firmware again? That would be my next step.

 

[slick2500]

Id say try a different radio and recal the esc to the "new" radio.... just to eliminate any possibility.

This^ I would definitely try a different radio.
Does your current radio have AVC and is it enabled? I know if AVC isn't calibrated properly it can cause issues.

 

[JayP.]

Have you defaulted it and flashed the firmware again? That would be my next step.

I did that as well, I did everything under the sun I could to fix the problem before I sent it in. Rn it's in castles hands, I've already sent it in, and talked to them over the phone again. Every time I brought it up they said it's doing what it's intended to do...
I

This^ I would definitely try a different radio.
Does your current radio have AVC and is it enabled? I know if AVC isn't calibrated properly it can cause issues.

I tried 3 different radios, an slt3, a dx3 and a dumbo x6, no stability management was enabled on all of them.

 

[AIan]

Where are you located? Maybe someone could help you if they bash or run near you, I would if I could help someone.

 

[3d-rc.myshopify.com]

Does it reflect in a data log? You or someone else may be able to catch something in there.

 

[JayP.]

Here's a link to the video, the cogging noise is when I get back on throttle... This is at LOW speed too! Which is ridiculous... It did it at higher speeds as well.

Here's a link to the video, the cogging noise is when I get back on throttle... This is at LOW speed too! Which is ridiculous... It did it at higher speeds as well.

It would cog when I would get off, then back on, yet if I crawled slowly through grass, it wouldn't cog whatsoever... It isn't even cogging, at low speed it seems like it is, but what it's trying to do is brake. I am running it sensored, sensorless it would do the exact same thing.