Electrical Issues again!

[Badmofreaker]

Another Radio/Rx.??

No,I bought the dx5 with a extra reciever for both cars

 

[SrC]

Curious.. which Spektrum Rx is in this rig? What model Rx's do you have there.

 

[Badmofreaker]

Another Radio/Rx.?? another ESC??

I have another esc,a new maxx 5 I used one time but was selling it

Curious.. which Spektrum Rx is in this rig? What model Rx's do you have there.

Sr515,5 channel

 

[SrC]

I want to re read this thread . give me a minute.
Your amps and watts were maxxed. So she over revved for sure @ 68k rpm. Although your pull duration was short @1.8ms.
I would assum its the motor. If you have another ESC to check the motor one last time, I would do that. I know I cooked a HW sensored motor that I over revved by 8k rpm Running a sustained pull duration.. The data log confirmed the failure. I used a BLX motor analyzer to confirm mine. Do you have another spare motor of any size to hook up to that ESC??
Radio/rx usually don't fail.
Need to make sure its not the ESC also. Most likely the motor though.

 

[Badmofreaker]

I want to re read this thread . give me a minute.
Your amps and watts were maxxed. So she over revved for sure @ 68k rpm. Although your pull duration was short @1.8ms.
I would assum its the motor. If you have another ESC to check the motor one last time, I would do that. I know I cooked a HW sensored motor that I over revved by 8k rpm Running a sustained pull duration.. The data log confirmed the failure. I used a BLX motor analyzer to confirm mine. Do you have another spare motor of any size to hook up to that ESC??
Radio/rx usually don't fail.
Need to make sure its not the ESC also. Most likely the motor though.

It would take longer with the other motor in my hand with no load but still seemed to put brakes on,probably ecs or controller. Don't know if I should try putting it back to factory settings on esc and see if it makes a difference

 

[Ari33]

I want to add that timing is considered only using a sensored setup. These are AC motors and efficient timing control requires feedback from a sensored circuit with a motors Hall sensors.
Anyone else care to comment? Not to move away from the OP's issue.

I've always understood that an aprox timing advance is possible on unsensored motors to some degree by crudely reading back emf.... but after a certain flux saturation it becomes hard for the esc to read the back emf?
Sensored timing can obviously just be far more accurate and efficient due to the esc knowing precisely where the rotor is.

Its been a long while since I read up on it, so if my understanding is wrong, someone please enlighten me..

 

[Badmofreaker]

I've always understood that an aprox timing advance is possible on unsensored motors to some degree by crudely reading back emf.... but after a certain flux saturation it becomes hard for the esc to read the back emf?
Sensored timing can obviously just be far more accurate and efficient due to the esc knowing precisely where the rotor is.

Its been a long while since I read up on it, so if my understanding is wrong, someone please enlighten me..

This is frustrating, been trying for 2 months to get it faster, I do different things and gain 1 or 2 miles per week just to find out it was the battery I was running. It jumped 9mph first pass on Friday and hit 125mph with more to go, and then this happened on the 3rd pass with the new battery ,I'm almost ready for a break, I've spent so much on this but never did the speed run thing before.

 

[SrC]

The short:
In a sensored setup, timing advance is retarded as required approaching max throttle/load. Only sensored feedback can do this. Most guys just don't advance timing on a non sensored motor if even possible depending on the ESC. And some sensored ESC's won't allow Timing advance if it does not see a sensored motor connected. It will default to non sensor mode by default.

This is frustrating, been trying for 2 months to get it faster, I do different things and gain 1 or 2 miles per week just to find out it was the battery I was running. It jumped 9mph first pass on Friday and hit 125mph with more to go, and then this happened on the 3rd pass with the new battery ,I'm almost ready for a break, I've spent so much on this but never did the speed run thing before.

You are now at the cutting edge of RC tech. dude . I feel ya. This is hardcore stuff. You've accomplished more than I for sure. Sometimes even out side ambient temps can affect a lipo's output on any given day. You'll get 1 or 2 MPH + or -. difference. I feel if its even very humid weather out, there is more drag on the aerodynamics also. Slightest head Wind etc. So many factors/variables involved. Not to mention that a GPS meter can be off by a few MPH here and there.

 

[Badmofreaker]

The short:
In a sensored setup, timing advance is retarded as required approaching max throttle/load. Only sensored feedback can do this. Most guys just don't advance timing on a non sensored motor if even possible depending on the ESC. And some sensored ESC's won't allow Timing advance if it does not see a sensored motor connected. It will default to non sensor mode by default.

I'm still learning, but I called castle and spoke with a tech guy and told him what I had and i was doing speed runs and he said I would be fine to go up to 15 but maybe he misunderstood me

 

[SrC]

I'm still learning, but I called castle and spoke with a tech guy and told him what I had and i was doing speed runs and he said I would be fine to go up to 15 but maybe he misunderstood me

Castle is great company but maybe he wasn't being specific as to your exact setup. Maybe he was referring to the ESC exclusively handling the +15 deg spec.
BTW Castle doesn't make their own motors. They are really best at designing and building ESC's. Castle outsources their Motor technology to China. Not all motors can handle the same parameters, i.e. timing, boost timing, gearing, etc.

Have you watched that long video by Raz that @jondilly1974 mentioned above. Its long. I watched it several times. There is so much info there in one place. I can re watch it and still learn something different.

 

[Ari33]

The short:
In a sensored setup, timing advance is retarded as required approaching max throttle/load. Only sensored feedback can do this. Most guys just don't advance timing on a non sensored motor if even possible depending on the ESC. And some sensored ESC's won't allow Timing advance if it does not see a sensored motor connected. It will default to non sensor mode by default..

Thats my understanding also... I think HW fall back to zero timing unless a sensored motor is detected... Same for Castle?

 

[Badmofreaker]

The short:
In a sensored setup, timing advance is retarded as required approaching max throttle/load. Only sensored feedback can do this. Most guys just don't advance timing on a non sensored motor if even possible depending on the ESC. And some sensored ESC's won't allow Timing advance if it does not see a sensored motor connected. It will default to non sensor mode by default.

You are now at the cutting edge of RC tech. dude . I feel ya. This is hardcore stuff. You've accomplished more than I for sure. Sometimes even out side ambient temps can affect a lipo's output on any given day. You'll get 1 or 2 MPH + or -. difference. I feel if its even very humid weather out, there is more drag on the aerodynamics also. Slightest head Wind etc. So many factors/variables involved. Not to mention that a GPS meter can be off by a few MPH here and there.

Yeah, the hotter the power hobby 100 c 6s 5000 battery got,the faster it went, which was always the third pass. I put in a china hobbies 6s 5000,70 c in and hit 125 first pass and it's hot here in south Florida

 

[SrC]

I ask the same about Castle??? Not sure. I don't have a Castle. I have played around with my friends . Helped him install and soldered it for him. That's it.
But there is a reason HW doesn't allow timing if not connected to a sensored motor. It's like a failsafe. The HW menu timing menu is greyed out if no sensor wire is there. I've never seen any non sensored ESC's with Timing values included.

Yeah, the hotter the power hobby 100 c 6s 5000 battery got,the faster it went, which was always the third pass. I put in a china hobbies 6s 5000,70 c in and hit 125 first pass and it's hot here in south Florida

Some speed guys actually heat up their packs to 100+ degrees to get faster/ higher amp draw from them. Track guys do this too for track racing. Track guys do it by discharging their Lipos very low and then rapid charge them at like 3C+. They start their race with a very hot lipo. Of course the hardcore guys don't care about their lipos much. They buy lots of them. That's the way they fly.

 

[Badmofreaker]

I ask the same about Castle??? Not sure. I don't have a Castle. I have played around with my friends . Helped him install and soldered it for him. That's it.
But there is a reason HW doesn't allow timing if not connected to a sensored motor. It's like a failsafe. The HW menu timing menu is greyed out if no sensor wire is there. I've never seen any non sensored ESC's with Timing values included.

Some guys actually heat up their packs to 100+ degrees to get faster/ higher amp draw from them.

Really, mine have been up to 180

 

[Ari33]

Really, mine have been up to 180

I think he means preheat..

I ask the same about Castle??? Not sure. I don't have a Castle. I have played around with my friends . Helped him install and soldered it for him. That's it.
But there is a reason HW doesn't allow timing if not connected to a sensored motor. It's like a failsafe. The HW menu timing menu is greyed out if no sensor wire is there. I've never seen any non sensored ESC's with Timing values included.

Probably just older gen1 escs..

 

[SrC]

Really, mine have been up to 180

My lipos have reached those temps too when under load and normally charged at 1C, while in use. What I am referring to is a fresh charged off the charger lipo immediately heated to high temps before use under load. Full volts at 120+ degrees. The power in watts they supply is almost explosive. The average basher doesn't want to do that.

 

[Badmofreaker]

My lipos have reached those temps too when under load and normally charged at 1C, while in use. What I am referring to is a fresh charged off the charger lipo immediately heated to high temps before use under load. Full volts at 120+ degrees. The power in watts they supply is almost explosive. The average basher doesn't want to do that.

How fast did your car go doing this

 

[SrC]

I only charge at 1C. All my lipos. Whether they are 2 or 3 C rated or not. But I was doing sustained speed running my Kraton 6S on Belted tires on a 1/4 mile Bicycle Banked velodrome track. I drove it for almost 5 laps full on with 6s. I hit 69 MPH. (GPS) Tall gears. 18 pinion. Drove it till LVC hit. Took temps. Off the chart. It was a stupid experiment. It was fun but cost me abit. Lipo lived but hit 160F. Motor bearings were done. All the diffs were smoked. Now I'm building my Limitless for that Velodrome. Better suited for this driving. But my Kratons chassis was eventoo hot to touch that day. It smelled real hot.

 

[Badmofreaker]

I only charge at 1C. All my lipos. Whether they are 2 or 3 C rated or not. But I was doing sustained speed running my Kraton 6S on Belted tires on a 1/4 Bicycle Banked velodrome track. I drove it for almost 5 laps full on with 6s. I hit 69 MPH. (GPS) Tall gears. 18 pinion. Drove it till LVC hit. Took temps. Off the chart. It was a stupid experiment. It was fun but cost me abit. Lipo lived but hit 160F. Motor bearings were done. All the diffs were smoked. Now I'm building my Limitless for that Velodrome. Better suited for this driving. But my Kratons chassis was eventoo hot to touch that day. It smelled real hot.

Sounds like we all spend a lot on the hobby trying things, but your right, its a lot of fun.

 

[SrC]

I was into scale car rodding, but I think this hobby is much safer for me now.