ESC/Motor Question

[psekinho]

Hello,
I am relatively new to the hobby.
Had a Turnigy SCT 2WD for start with a Robitronic Razer ten Brushless Combo 60A 3652 4600kV and 3s battery.
https://www.racerc.gr/products/razer-ten-brushless-combo-60a-3652-4600kv

Now i got the Senton 3s BLX.

My question is if Senton's ESC/Motor are better that my Robitronic. I like to tinker stuff (already changed radio in senton) and i was thinking if it is ok to change motor for example. What i want to achieve is have the most powerful combination in the Senton and have the 2wd as second.
Sorry for my ignorance but i can't find anywhere a proper guide explaining about ESC and motors.
Any suggestion is welcome.
Thank you.

 

[Jimbobjr]

I’m not too familiar with either combo but on paper the blx looks to be better fitted to your truck. That other esc is rated at 60amp with the blx @ 100. The Razor motor is higher kv which may cause heat issues. Not sure altogether but I’d just stick with your stock electrics.

 

[Jerry-rigged]

If you are trying to figure out which motor is more powerful without having any real power specs or dyno available, then we kind of have to guess. If you look at KV and can size they can give you a pretty good idea of power comparing two different Motors.

First can size. This is pretty easy. Bigger = more torque. (more or less). With your motors both have the same diameter, but one is longer. If we assume the longer motor actually has a longer rotor, then it should make more torque than a equal motor with a shorter rotor... so by this metric, the 3660 motor in the Senton should be stronger.

Kv is motor speed, rpm per volt (sort of). Higher kv motors will spin faster than lower kv motors. However, they tend to have a bit less torque than lower kv motors of the same size. But, generally, they make more total actual power than the higher torque, lower KV motors of the same size... when you look at your motors and KV, the 4600kv should be faster.

So one motor will make more torque, but the other motor we will spin faster. The real question for you, is which one will make your truck go faster? This might be a bit more difficult to figure out without a little bit of experimentation on your end. With the same gear ratio, and the same battery, the 4600 should be faster, but it will generate more heat. The challenge with this motor, will be keeping it cool while you run. Big heat sinks and a fan will probably be necessary.

However, we don't have to keep the gearing the same. With the extra torque that the 3200 KV senton motor makes, we can increase the pinion size to make up for the Lost KV. This should gain us back the difference in speed. Plus the larger can will help dissipate heat better, so the motor should not run as hot. Lastly, because of the lower KV, and the lower total motor RPM, the 3200 KV motor can be more safely run on 3s versus the 4600 KV motor. Adding another cell give the lower KV motor and unfair advantage, and would make it a clear winner in overall speed.

Now realize this all assumes that both Motors are built with approximately the same quality and Technology. We know the arrma 3200 KV motor is a basic semi generic motor. Decent quality, but not race-tuned. If your 4600 KV motor is a high-level racing branded motor with top quality components, it may be able to outperform the arrma motor. In this case technology would Trump the larger can. If it is the same basic semi generic construction of the arrma, then I would expect the arrma motor would outperform it due to the larger can size.

I kind of have this same situation myself. In my Short Course Truck, I have a Tekin pro4 4600 KV motor. In my granite, I have a generic 3660 size 3800 KV motor. I normally run my Tekin on 2s because of the high KV, but normally run my granite on 3s, because it's a cheap motor and I don't care if it blows up. The bigger motor, with the extra voltage, does outperform the Tekin, but not by much. These two cars are a lot closer and performance than I would have guessed. But again, this is down in large part to the technology. The Tekin is a pure race bread motor, top of the line components, top-of-the-line everything. So even though it has a smaller can, it puts out a lot of power. If I was brave enough to run this motor on 3s, I have no doubt it would severely outperform the motor in my granite.

TLDR- best way to find out which is stronger, go out and test it. Play with it, change stuff up. Then report back and let us know what you find! Most importantly, have fun.

 

[psekinho]

If you are trying to figure out which motor is more powerful without having any real power specs or dyno available, then we kind of have to guess. If you look at KV and can size they can give you a pretty good idea of power comparing two different Motors.

First can size. This is pretty easy. Bigger = more torque. (more or less). With your motors both have the same diameter, but one is longer. If we assume the longer motor actually has a longer rotor, then it should make more torque than a equal motor with a shorter rotor... so by this metric, the 3660 motor in the Senton should be stronger.

Kv is motor speed, rpm per volt (sort of). Higher kv motors will spin faster than lower kv motors. However, they tend to have a bit less torque than lower kv motors of the same size. But, generally, they make more total actual power than the higher torque, lower KV motors of the same size... when you look at your motors and KV, the 4600kv should be faster.

So one motor will make more torque, but the other motor we will spin faster. The real question for you, is which one will make your truck go faster? This might be a bit more difficult to figure out without a little bit of experimentation on your end. With the same gear ratio, and the same battery, the 4600 should be faster, but it will generate more heat. The challenge with this motor, will be keeping it cool while you run. Big heat sinks and a fan will probably be necessary.

However, we don't have to keep the gearing the same. With the extra torque that the 3200 KV senton motor makes, we can increase the pinion size to make up for the Lost KV. This should gain us back the difference in speed. Plus the larger can will help dissipate heat better, so the motor should not run as hot. Lastly, because of the lower KV, and the lower total motor RPM, the 3200 KV motor can be more safely run on 3s versus the 4600 KV motor. Adding another cell give the lower KV motor and unfair advantage, and would make it a clear winner in overall speed.

Now realize this all assumes that both Motors are built with approximately the same quality and Technology. We know the arrma 3200 KV motor is a basic semi generic motor. Decent quality, but not race-tuned. If your 4600 KV motor is a high-level racing branded motor with top quality components, it may be able to outperform the arrma motor. In this case technology would Trump the larger can. If it is the same basic semi generic construction of the arrma, then I would expect the arrma motor would outperform it due to the larger can size.

I kind of have this same situation myself. In my Short Course Truck, I have a Tekin pro4 4600 KV motor. In my granite, I have a generic 3660 size 3800 KV motor. I normally run my Tekin on 2s because of the high KV, but normally run my granite on 3s, because it's a cheap motor and I don't care if it blows up. The bigger motor, with the extra voltage, does outperform the Tekin, but not by much. These two cars are a lot closer and performance than I would have guessed. But again, this is down in large part to the technology. The Tekin is a pure race bread motor, top of the line components, top-of-the-line everything. So even though it has a smaller can, it puts out a lot of power. If I was brave enough to run this motor on 3s, I have no doubt it would severely outperform the motor in my granite.

TLDR- best way to find out which is stronger, go out and test it. Play with it, change stuff up. Then report back and let us know what you find! Most importantly, have fun.

The first part of your answer is the most easy explanation i have seen. This is what i was trying to understand.
I believe both motors are very close in quality.
What i noticed when i was running my 4600kv was the big amount of heat on the esc. I was thinking to try blx esc with the 4600 motor and play with pinions a bit. Maybe it won't heat blx esc as much.
I will try and i will let you know.
Thank you very much for the help.

 

[Cheapbastard]

The first part of your answer is the most easy explanation i have seen. This is what i was trying to understand.
I believe both motors are very close in quality.
What i noticed when i was running my 4600kv was the big amount of heat on the esc. I was thinking to try blx esc with the 4600 motor and play with pinions a bit. Maybe it won't heat blx esc as much.
I will try and i will let you know.
Thank you very much for the help.

60a esc is too small to run a 4600kv motor on 3s the motor can pull to many amps and the esc can't keep up (heat up). You could see a performance increase with a higher amp esc as the esc will be able to provide more amps to the motor that the 60a couldn't but the motor wanted. The motor pulls current (amps) the esc just supplies the current the motor demands. So the esc can be a limiting factor.

Heat is a indicator if something is being overworked and not up to the task. Get a IR temp gun and monitor temps of all components (esc, motor even battery).

 

[ZaneTC]

Its on a traxxas bandit, not arrma made(sorry). It IS a 3s spectrum motor. Comes on the losi drag car with a 100a esc. I am drag racing so short runs. But going by the gear chart you sent i AM geared too high at 50/16 (.8/32p) for either esc. Probly need a stronger speed control. Thank you for all ur input.