Kraton EXB CAMBER AND ACKERMAN BAR

[Soilhalo77]

Ok I’ve had my EXB KRATON a month now and so far I’ve spent a fortune trying to get right for what I thought would be brill as soon as I fitted the electrics.
Servo was bad so I bought a SAVOX 35kg 7.4v but steering was still weak so went through forum and YouTube and saw a vid,I think @bournemouthal RC fitting Cclips at the bottom of the servo saver. WORKING PERFECT!!! But now I’ve found that the Ackerman bar has up n down play . I checked all the screws multiple times and can’t find anything loose
Is this normal????
Also and I can’t find an answer for this anywhere but all vids I watch of @Rich Duperbash @RcDude81 Kevin Talbot and everyone else that I could mention the Camber on the front of the trucks seem to be perfectly angled and mine are over the top with negative camber
The only thing I can find is vids of people saying to cut bits off the Bottom arm and another guy doing the same but saying to put 3mm heat shrink on the dog bone to stop ware on the out drive cups
DOES ANYONE KNOW A WAY I CAN FIX THESE 2 little things without cutting up my new RC ??????
I thought about adding CClips to the top arm but realised that would pull the dog bone further out. So it has to be done at the bottom arm
I don’t know if the play in the Ackerman bar is normal (but I don’t think it is) and I don’t know what direction to go with the camber
Can anyone help me out please?
Thanks in advance if someone can help

 

[Soilhalo77]

Does the EXB have the washers under the pillow balls? That's how it fix it on the V4

Sorry I missed this, but I’m not sure but if it does it would sort problem by removing them if it has some
Seems I’ve got lots of info to go on now

 

[nomis38]

So what are you saying I’ve issues with or are? you saying just take it apart and check it all and decide if I want to take that slop out or not as my steering is bang on. It was just the play in it that got me thinking that something wasn’t quite right and it should all be tight

My money is on the servo saver.

 

[SrC]

Oh wow there is something wrong. There should be no space between your support and your steering support plate thingy. This is not your Ackerman bar as an issue. Should be as tight as the other side with the servo saver.

I see that alot. Arrma used to have a flanged metal spacer at the ST top plate under the ST post screw as it is screwed into it. No more used. I had them in my v1 Noto and first OC. I see slop there alot now in current 6s rigs. Many shim it up to remove slop. But honestly there is so much slop across every single ST ball and at the Ackerman right thru to the Servo arm. It is hard to remove all. The nature of the beast. You will be chasing a ghost.
If the Alignment is spot on, It will drive straight and be fine. The pivot balls always need to be spot snug and not too tight OR loose however. This causes ST drift if anything does. And the Pivot balls can loosen easily. Affects Camber, toe and Castor all together . St. Becomes a sloppy mess with loose PB's. For off road use as a basher rig, we can deal with the slop. I wish it wasn't there but it is, unlike my Tekno MT.

 

[Soilhalo77]

My money is on the servo saver.

But steering is fine it’s just that up n down movement that you said earlier you had and wasn’t a problem
I already put C,clips on the servo saver to tighten it up and it worked a treat
Before I did it and you had the car on carpet the wheels would hardly move even with a 32kg servo but now I added them they turn no problem
Dunno if I’m confusing people but like I say my only concern was the up n down movement under the servo saver and the bellcrank
Hence suggesting putting washers under them to reduce movement and unnecessary wear.
I need to get the camber sorted too so I’m gonna check for washers behind the pillow balls n see what I can find
Anyway it’s 2:40am here and typically I’ve got stuck on YouTube watching RCvids and haven’t noticed the time.
I’ll hopefully get into in the morning get that screw out and get it sorted one way or another
I’ll take pics and vid so you can see how I get on
Again thanks guys for the advice, it is really appreciated

 

[nomis38]

But steering is fine it’s just that up n down movement that you said earlier you had and wasn’t a problem
I already put C,clips on the servo saver to tighten it up and it worked a treat
Before I did it and you had the car on carpet the wheels would hardly move even with a 32kg servo but now I added them they turn no problem
Dunno if I’m confusing people but like I say my only concern was the up n down movement under the servo saver and the bellcrank
Hence suggesting putting washers under them to reduce movement and unnecessary wear.
I need to get the camber sorted too so I’m gonna check for washers behind the pillow balls n see what I can find
Anyway it’s 2:40am here and typically I’ve got stuck on YouTube watching RCvids and haven’t noticed the time.
I’ll hopefully get into in the morning get that screw out and get it sorted one way or another
I’ll take pics and vid so you can see how I get on
Again thanks guys for the advice, it is really appreciated

Gotcha.

I thought even after the Savox you still have weird steering. And welcome, anytime.

 

[Liquid SSSnake]

Just gotta take that top plate off and see. How did you get the shim on the spring? I tried that, but I took it all apart, I ended up installing the EXB spring.

I had to buy special M4 x 0.5mm thick washers to shim up the top plate and use normal M3x0.5 washers on the rear part. I had no gap at all the servo saver hex was metal to metal.

Then bring the upper arm mount down 0.5 with washers to bring the geometry back.

Shimmed the LH bellcrank like I said before.

And added bearings in the ackerman bar... I'm not sure how that would hold up in an off-road rig.

This is my first Arrma, most of these threads seem to be about tolerance issues and they're wildly different.

 

[jkflow]

Just back.
No that is not slop above the bell cranks. There is not supposed to be any gap or play. PERIOD. If there is room there is something wrong. This is a solid tower top to bottom with no play whatsoever. Can't say it any more clear than that.
Yes, your brace is mounted incorrectly, yes it's an extreme tight fit but it does fit. Looses the brace and take it out. Now you will see how the steering plate will sit flush. Next is to nstall that brace again. You have to loosen up the steering to install that brace. There is no shortcut or secret, just painful.
Better view, it doesn't have all the bracing stuff installed on top.
Red plate is the top plate that is not flush in yours. The silver thing is the center brace (yours is red).
No play up top and none on the bottom. No play over on the servo saver side either. That is a fixed distance and there has never been any slop in any version to my knowledge. If it doesn't look like this there is something wrong.

 

[jkflow]

Better view with words. Just ignore the dirt

 

[Soilhalo77]

Just gotta take that top plate off and see. How did you get the shim on the spring? I tried that, but I took it all apart, I ended up installing the EXB spring.

I had to buy special M4 x 0.5mm thick washers to shim up the top plate and use normal M3x0.5 washers on the rear part. I had no gap at all the servo saver hex was metal to metal.

Then bring the upper arm mount down 0.5 with washers to bring the geometry back.

Shimmed the LH bellcrank like I said before.

And added bearings in the ackerman bar... I'm not sure how that would hold up in an off-road rig.

This is my first Arrma, most of these threads seem to be about tolerance issues and they're wildly different.

Theresa vid on YouTube of a guy here in uk the using Cclips so you don't need to get spring off to do it as its on super tight with Loctite from factory. So checking around and watching some vids on line the more people I saw had litstened to him and gone and tried it and the Cclips stay put they don't come off

 

[Soilhalo77]

Better view with words. Just ignore the dirt

View attachment 126879

OK im getting stressed now. Too wet to take it out anyway I guess after all the snow melting. Its gonna get looked over this afternoon's soon as im home.

 

[Soilhalo77]

Theresa vid on YouTube of a guy here in uk the using Cclips so you don't need to get spring off to do it as its on super tight with Loctite from factory. So checking around and watching some vids on line the more people I saw had litstened to him and gone and tried it and the Cclips stay put they don't come off

Heres the link

and you will see the easier way of doing it, he's also got some handy tips on reinforcing diffs and a load of other good ideas
it doesn't just have to be on the V4 it works on all models I believe and its just a work around of not having to break that loctite seal which ive heard is on pretty solidly so negates stripping any parts trying to get the servo saver separated
Mine was weak from factory on my EXB, but if you buy some and do it this way id go to local hardware store and buy a box full as buying them separately or from a hobby shop you get about 6 for £4 or something crazy like that but the hardware stores sell boxes of 1000 for £7 of all different sizes and the tool to put them on is mega cheap too, I think about £4

I see that alot. Arrma used to have a flanged metal spacer at the ST top plate under the ST post screw as it is screwed into it. No more used. I had them in my v1 Noto and first OC. I see slop there alot now in current 6s rigs. Many shim it up to remove slop. But honestly there is so much slop across every single ST ball and at the Ackerman right thru to the Servo arm. It is hard to remove all. The nature of the beast. You will be chasing a ghost.
If the Alignment is spot on, It will drive straight and be fine. The pivot balls always need to be spot snug and not too tight OR loose however. This causes ST drift if anything does. And the Pivot balls can loosen easily. Affects Camber, toe and Castor all together . St. Becomes a sloppy mess with loose PB's. For off road use as a basher rig, we can deal with the slop. I wish it wasn't there but it is, unlike my Tekno MT.

ST DRIFT?

 

[Liquid SSSnake]

Heres the link

and you will see the easier way of doing it, he's also got some handy tips on reinforcing diffs and a load of other good ideas
it doesn't just have to be on the V4 it works on all models I believe and its just a work around of not having to break that loctite seal which ive heard is on pretty solidly so negates stripping any parts trying to get the servo saver separated
Mine was weak from factory on my EXB, but if you buy some and do it this way id go to local hardware store and buy a box full as buying them separately or from a hobby shop you get about 6 for £4 or something crazy like that but the hardware stores sell boxes of 1000 for £7 of all different sizes and the tool to put them on is mega cheap too, I think about £4

ST DRIFT?

The lightest squeeze with an impact will get it loose, about two soft hits, I held the plastic end with towel. I was ready to slay this loctite dragon... and there was barely any. There's an O-ring there that keeps it from turning like the pillow ball screws. A vise and hand tools would work as well, I could see bludgeoning myself messing with clips.

ST=steering(?) the way I read it.

 

[Soilhalo77]

The lightest squeeze with an impact will get it loose, about two soft hits, I held the plastic end with towel. I was ready to slay this loctite dragon... and there was barely any. There's an O-ring there that keeps it from turning like the pillow ball screws. A vise and hand tools would work as well, I could see bludgeoning myself messing with clips.

ST=steering(?) the way I read it.

I’ve been jumping mine and there in there tight, as long as there in correctly then they shouldn’t go anywhere as you have to force them around and it’s not there natural state when opened up. All there doing is clamping around servo saver and the spring sits on top and buy the right ones you have almost a full circle around the saver under your spring
ST =Steering DOH!!!!

 

[Soilhalo77]

Right I pulled it apart you'll notice top plate is flush and looks like its touching. The problem is the steering posts that the saver and bell house sit on. Its about a mm too long so ill have play NO MATTER WHAT ! You can only solve the problem by putting a washer on the bushing to bring it up level. You can see in the photos what I mean and you can see by the pic of the bottom of the top plate where its been touching its been seated correctly.
SORRY IM GOING FROM ORDER OF UPLOAD SO BOTTOM TO TOP
Going from order of upload so bottom to top
Pic no 1 shows top plate seated correctly and for @Liquid SSSnake you can see the Circlips under the spring at opposite angles to each other
Pic no 2 another shot showing top plate no gap
Pic no 3 Im pointing to the bit that's causing the problem as it sits higher and as its attached to chassis there isn't many options apart from a shim
Pic no 4 steering posts if I can't shorted these by screwing them together more then this is why the SS and BH can move up n down
Pic no 5 shows what I mean where top plate is resting on the steering posts
Pic no 6 shows you what is level and basically everything is but you see what's causing play just from this shot!
So in hindsight that up n down (unless you can adjust the length of the steering posts) will always be there but should not effect the performance of the car, I think you can live with a 1mm gap on either side as I don't see how it can cause any damage or problem but if you want to remove it you'll have to find a shim that goes on bushing then have a real thin one on top to cover the lot but then you'd need a washer under the brace too.
This was a ball ache of a job as that screw was stopped I ended up having to drill it then Dremel it. lift top plate then remove knackered screw.
that's why there's all the silver bits everywhere. Next job sort this tomorrow and work out why the Camber isn't right. Daft thing is I was more interested in sorting the Camber out than this, this was more of a general question.

 

[Soilhalo77]

So I did tighten everything back down swapping out the button heads for cap head and could eliminate the play but once done the steering became extremely tight so I had to back it off a 1/4 at a time
By the time I got to the point where the steering was loose again the play had returned but it has to be said that it’s no where near as much as before
I think the problem was loctite that was on top of the center brace and once I’d got rid of that everything felt tighter and had way less slop
I then moved onto the camber issue and removed the red cap on bottom A arm but when I screwed it in and started to turn the dog bone arm I developed a clicking noise
For the moment I have put it back together set shocks with less rebound but next thing will be to stop the clicking which I think I need to do by moving the top pivot ball out and shimming it but so the end of the shaft doesn’t pop out on heavy impacts I think I will need to trim the bottom arm to compensate
Maybe I just got unlucky and got some arms that were slightly off I’m going to order more as soon as there available in Uk but until then I’m stuck with ones I’ve got unless I try some RPM arms at the front!?!?
But “Thank you everyone that chipped in some advice and helped resolve the problem”!!!!!!

 

[nomis38]

Again lol, I have 3 noto/kraton/senton. My buddy has 3 exb/noto/talion. I have checked them, they all have the play and all have the steering bell posts stick up about a milimeter. So maybe some people have them with no play, but for sure most of them have it.

 

[jkflow]

1mm play is almost not worth mentioning
When I made my statement it was with respect to your video where you had easily 5-8mm of play.
Keep in mind it's an Arrma and not a precision tool. That 1mm is tolerable.

 

[nomis38]

Here is a vid for the OP of the play in all 6 models I have inspected. Looks the same to me. But you can make your own judgement.

 

[Soilhalo77]

Here is a vid for the OP of the play in all 6 models I have inspected. Looks the same to me. But you can make your own judgement.

Mines way less than that now, I did get it to a point where nothing moved up or down but it felt way too restrictive. I’ve settled on medium ground
I also found that the screws that attach the steering to the Ackerman bar did have a bit of play which was exaggerating everything a lot
Thanks for posting that vid

 

[nomis38]

Welcome