Fireteam Fast & Furious Fireteam (need help)

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obessedwithrc

Active Member
Military Veteran
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Location
San Diego, CA
Arrma RC's
  1. Fireteam
  2. Mojave EXB
  3. Outcast 4s
  4. Talion EXB
  5. Typhon 6s
  6. Typhon TLR
  7. Vorteks
  8. Infraction 4x4
So I bought the Fireteam on a whim during the $399 deal. Then I got bored over the break and decided to strip it down and rebuild it from the ground up. Name all the basher upgrades from M2C, Basherqueen, Vitavon, RPM, stainless steel screws, etc., and I'm probably running it, but I'm having problems with power loss. I'm getting intermittent power loss at full speed on a 17t pinion like it's surging. I think it could be a few things...

1. The battery wires are too long
2. I need a bigger ESC
3. I'm getting voltage sag from the battery
4. The wires aren't large enough in diameter (10 gauge) to transfer the power
5. I need to install a capacitor as they use for speed runs
6. My soldering job sucks

Any thoughts?

I am using 5450 mah 6s 120c battery from Max Amps, Castle Connectors, and the MMX 8s. See motor details in the pics:

PXL_20221230_232801207.jpg


Here's the motor that I'm using. It's a BEAST. Dimensions: 36 x 101mm with an 8mm shaft @ 2000kv

Screen Shot 2022-12-30 at 3.53.57 PM.png


Top view:

PXL_20221230_232841528.jpg


Side view:

PXL_20221230_232754214.jpg
 
If I had to guess you are either over geared and or the motor is pulling more amps than the battery can provide. IIRC those motors can pull a boat of amps.

As a side note every lipo seller over rates their C rates some more than others. https://www.arrmaforum.com/threads/c-rates-what-is-the-deal.17174/

If your charger has an IR meter check the IR of the cells.

I would gear down to like a 14-15T pinion and see if the problem persists.
 
Thanks, @slick2500. You hit the nail on the head. The Max Amps battery wasn't up to the job. I switched over to a 6300 mah SMC battery 135c and there's no power loss. That was the trick. I'm super surprised because Max Amps is supposed to be one of the better brands out there—especially with their premium prices.

I'm still wondering if I should put an extra capacitor on there just to protect the ESC. I wonder if that's necessary given that the power loss is gone. I know the MMX 8s can log data, but I wouldn't know how to read it. I'd have to do some YouTubing on that subject.
 
I'd get rid of the MaxAmps. They're a little overrated IMHO. I have one and haven't have a good experience with it. They have an excellent return policy and a limited lifetime warranty but I've had to send it back to them once already for a bad cell. The performance is OK but there are better batteries that don't cost as much.

Another thing you can try is putting a cap pack on your receiver. You might be getting power loss or high current spikes to the receiver. They're pretty cheap and help smooth this out. I was having the same issue with one of my MMX8S and the receiver cap pack helped a lot. I'd try QS8 connectors too. That Cordova is a beast and needs a ton of current. QS8 is the best for handling all the current load required by the motor.

Excellent build also...That thing is a masterpiece!
 
Dope rig there.
Thanks, @Mikeeal !
Thanks for the tips, @9G! I think I'll add a cap pack.
I'd get rid of the MaxAmps. They're a little overrated IMHO. I have one and haven't have a good experience with it. They have an excellent return policy and a limited lifetime warranty but I've had to send it back to them once already for a bad cell. The performance is OK but there are better batteries that don't cost as much.

Another thing you can try is putting a cap pack on your receiver. You might be getting power loss or high current spikes to the receiver. They're pretty cheap and help smooth this out. I was having the same issue with one of my MMX8S and the receiver cap pack helped a lot. I'd try QS8 connectors too. That Cordova is a beast and needs a ton of current. QS8 is the best for handling all the current load required by the motor.

Excellent build also...That thing is a masterpiece!
First that is one 🥵 Fireteam! Nicely done! I’m thinking 3 or 5 because if it was 6 you’d probably have a meltdown by now.🤣
Thanks, @Fishtank !
 
If I had to guess you are either over geared and or the motor is pulling more amps than the battery can provide. IIRC those motors can pull a boat of amps.

As a side note every lipo seller over rates their C rates some more than others. https://www.arrmaforum.com/threads/c-rates-what-is-the-deal.17174/

If your charger has an IR meter check the IR of the cells.

I would gear down to like a 14-15T pinion and see if the problem persists.
+!
We think a like.:giggle:
That motor and gearing is wrong for this heavy off road rig. Added even more weight with all the upgrades as it is.
Why aren't you refering to the CC data logs. You aren't looking closely enough. You slammed your rig with Much $$. Nice at that. Maybe overkill at the expense of performance??? Just need to focus more on the ESC Logs to evaluate best. Your electrics might be better suited in a Lim or Infraction. In a FT Not too sure. 2000KV Cordova, probably not the best choice. Not enough torque. Just maxing out the RPM's if anything? I would drop the pinion down first and see if there is any change. But def need to Get into the CC Data logs. It will show you where you went wrong. Take advantage of the MMX8s data logs. Show us the logs here. I hope you are Using a temp gun to evaluate that 2000kv motor, lipo and ESC temps. Otherwise you are Blind running this rig. Use a speed gear calculator for reference.
Good luck.
Don't expect your FT to do 100mph with those FT tires. Whether in dirt/grass or on Pavement. Not happening,
 
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Thanks, @slick2500. You hit the nail on the head. The Max Amps battery wasn't up to the job. I switched over to a 6300 mah SMC battery 135c and there's no power loss. That was the trick. I'm super surprised because Max Amps is supposed to be one of the better brands out there—especially with their premium prices.

I'm still wondering if I should put an extra capacitor on there just to protect the ESC. I wonder if that's necessary given that the power loss is gone. I know the MMX 8s can log data, but I wouldn't know how to read it. I'd have to do some YouTubing on that subject.

On paper Maxamps is supposed to be but real world testing shows them to be some of the worst performers. They tested that particular battery on Rcgroups and it had a real C rate of 10c and that was before he changed his testing to the max sustainable c rate not the max achievable.
 
Thanks, @slick2500. You hit the nail on the head. The Max Amps battery wasn't up to the job. I switched over to a 6300 mah SMC battery 135c and there's no power loss. That was the trick. I'm super surprised because Max Amps is supposed to be one of the better brands out there—especially with their premium prices.

I'm still wondering if I should put an extra capacitor on there just to protect the ESC. I wonder if that's necessary given that the power loss is gone. I know the MMX 8s can log data, but I wouldn't know how to read it. I'd have to do some YouTubing on that subject.

MaxAmps are pretty notorious for not performing well. It is buyers perception that the higher price means quality. I'd check reviews or ask around on this forum before dropping that sort of money. Lots of knowledge on this forum to help you along the way.

The MMX8s is notorious for suffering from ripple voltage. A cap pack is a good addition for that ESC.
You will need to get the castle link and install the program on your PC to pull the logs. (or get the blue tooth module and phone app).
Once you have that you will be able to know exactly what is going on instead of guessing what might be happening.

For some people they don't want the added hassle of the cap pack and need the space the cap pack would occupy. In bashers the ESC seems to last ok without a cap pack but it sounds like you push your rigs hard...

+1 on the motor might not be the right choice. The HW4985 might be one of the best options for a heavy basher.
 
I've only run the FT a few times so far. The first time out I broke the a-arm within a few minutes. I didn't give myself enough time to warm up and get used to the truck. The second time out my soldering job on the motor wires failed. So, we'll have to see what happens when I get it out again.

I literally have a Max Amps graveyard sitting in my toolbox. One of the 3s batteries puffed like crazy, which is surprising because I ran it in a very light touring car (Kyosho Fazer MK2) with stock electronics. If I had run that battery on my 6s Traxxas 4-tec 2.0 drag car (MMX8s & TP Power motor) then I would have understood.

The other batteries (all 6s) lost a cell. Some of them were $300+. I did not expect them to go to sh*t so quickly. I did email Max Amps and gave them info on how I've been using them. They want to get on a call to talk about whether or not their warranty applies. None of my other 6s batteries from other brands have failed.

This is the email I sent them:

Hi there, I bought about ~$3k worth of batteries from Max Amps. So far, the majority of the batteries are working well; however, I have a "battery graveyard" that continues to grow. More specifically, the higher-mah, higher-volt packs have failed after little use (2-5 cycles). One of the packs puffed and split the hard case open (Hard Case Race Edition LiPo 6500 3S 11.1v Dual Core Battery Pack) and the rest of the batteries lost a cell (just one cell). I bought these packs in 2021-2022, and as they failed, I put them in a toolbox thinking that each failure was a fluke, but after this last pack failed, I decided that I would reach out for support. I know that MaxAmps has a warranty program. I'm curious to see if I should ship the packs back for inspection or if I can get a store credit to replace the failed batteries (store credit would be preferred).

Usage info: I bought a Lipo Battery Charger Hitec RDX1 Pro AC/DC charger/discharger from MaxAmps. This is the only battery charger that I use. I always charge batteries at 1-5c, depending on the size of the pack. I always make sure they are stored at 3.8 volts per cell, and I charge batteries using a balance charge, except for a few occasions where I have used fast charge.

I store my batteries in a BatSafe. Each battery is bagged and wrapped in foam before I put them away. Primarily, I run the batteries in my Arrma 1/8th scale trucks (Mojave, Typhon, and Talion). I use foam on the bottom of the pack to protect it from impacts. I use the MaxAmps velcro straps for extra security to prevent battery ejection. All of the MaxAmps batteries that failed have Castle Creations 6.5 plugs. My Arrma rigs primarily use the Castle MMX or Castle MMX8s, and a few of them have the stock Spectra Firma 150. I program the ESCs above the recommended cutoff voltage. The motors are either the stock 2000kv Spektrum or for the heavier rigs, I use the Castle 1717 1650kv.

With the Castle setups, I run sensored and set temp cutoffs at 140 degrees to prevent overheating. My local RC park is primarily loose sand/soft-packed dirt. I do not run my RCs at the skatepark. I do jump my RCs, but I am no Rich Duperbash by any means! I do not speed run my RCs and therefore, I keep the gearing ratio low to further prevent overheating as I do live in California and it can get hot in the summer. That said, I live in San Diego, so it's not crazy hot by any means.

I feel like I've followed all of the best practices when it comes to the care of Lipo batteries. If there's anything I'm missing, please let me know. If there's any more information that I can provide, I'm happy to do so.
  • LiPo 5450 6S 22.2v Battery Pack (two of them failed)
  • LiPo 6500 6S 22.2v Dual Core Battery Pack
  • LiPo 5450 4S 14.8v Battery Pack
  • Hard Case Race Edition LiPo 6500 3S 11.1v Dual Core Battery Pack
 
Well, their reply was "let's talk about the warranty" — so, I'm not sure which batteries will actually qualify for the lifetime warranty. The service rep asked me for a call to discuss this. I don't think it's a blanket policy.

- Gregg
 
Well, their reply was "let's talk about the warranty" — so, I'm not sure which batteries will actually qualify for the lifetime warranty. The service rep asked me for a call to discuss this. I don't think it's a blanket policy.

- Gregg
Over priced and they don't stand by their warranty. That's great!
Cringe Smile GIF
 
Yeah... I still have to call their service rep. I will definitely post an update after that! The fact that none of my other 6s batteries from other brands have failed says a lot.
 
BEAUTIFUL build!! How's it holding up? I have heard of MaxAmps referred to as MaxCramps.. sounds like it may be true? That's disappointing. Hope they do you right. Makes me feel better about just buying the cheapest I find and completely forgetting about any warranty claims.
 
I haven't run the FT for like six months. Our nanny moved north and I was "daddy on duty" for the entire summer. We were able to find someone, but then work got busy, and then the kids had a winter break. I haven't been out in ages. That, and the last time I took it out, a motor wire came unsoldered (that was my fault for not using bullets). Other than that, I've only broken a rear a-arm (RPM). Not sure if the RPM ones are any stronger than stock. In fact, I'm not sure if it's wise to use them with upgraded M2C driveshafts, either. M2C says on its website that driveshafts break when using RPM arms because the arms are too flexible, causing the driveshafts to bind in the cups. I haven't had that issue yet. I haven't called MaxAmps yet, but I'll definitely post an update when I do.
 
The MMX8s is notorious for suffering from ripple voltage. A cap pack is a good addition for that ESC.
You will need to get the castle link and install the program on your PC to pull the logs. (or get the blue tooth module and phone app).
Once you have that you will be able to know exactly what is going on instead of guessing what might be happening.
That's interesting because I started doing little speed runs with my 6s kraton/1650 mmx8s on 20t pinion and as I was flying by I would notice these rapid small hesitations. I have no idea what is was but I think you described it. What would I be looking for in the logs? Some type of voltage drop? Thanks
 
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