Fine tuning shocks

[fpvmiller]

I don't doubt you. I am going by the spec'd numbers

 

[suchtragedy]

Spring Chart Thread folks:

https://www.arrmaforum.com/threads/arrma-spring-list-chart-for-4s-and-most-6s-vehicles.18704/

 

[Surchaufeur]

Yup a hair softer

 

[jondilly1974]

For my K4S I’m running Typhon 6S shocks with Talion rods and K6S springs front and rear. I have the collars all the way up and it’s buttery smooth and runs awesome. The Granite I have all Typhon 6S stuff and need the collars midway.

I run 80W in all of them.

 

[suchtragedy]

For my Typhon 3s truggy build I decided to try the 4s eBay shocks (6s shock shortage at the time). I'll take some length out of them, hoping the springs will be a good match. Hoping they hold up, the rods are 4.5mm so they better, maybe not the rod ends but the rest I hope, fingers crossed. At least these one came with a shock cap bushing unlike the 3s ones.

 

[Surchaufeur]

For my K4S I’m running Typhon 6S shocks with Talion rods and K6S springs front and rear. I have the collars all the way up and it’s buttery smooth and runs awesome. The Granite I have all Typhon 6S stuff and need the collars midway.

I run 80W in all of them.

How i tried on the rear and it just springs up. Act like a spring than a shock

 

[jondilly1974]

How i tried on the rear and it just springs up. Act like a spring than a shock

You must not have thick enough or enough volume of shock oil. This thing is plush and smooth.

 

[Surchaufeur]

You must not have thick enough or enough volume of shock oil. This thing is plush and smooth.

Well i tried to install them how they were when i received them and there was no rebound nothing at all was with 80wt oil
But did not try with the longer shafts mhm going to try that i have the springs with me but i don't have the oils with me

 

[Surchaufeur]

For my K4S I’m running Typhon 6S shocks with Talion rods and K6S springs front and rear. I have the collars all the way up and it’s buttery smooth and runs awesome. The Granite I have all Typhon 6S stuff and need the collars midway.

I run 80W in all of them.

Hey their were not as stiff has i though they were i did what you said its better front and rear rebound at the same rate the springs rubs against the shock body making an anoying noise its deffinetly better and less stiff. But i don't see how 80wt will make it butter smooth when im running 50wt and is okay

 

[suchtragedy]

For my Typhon 3s truggy build I decided to try the 4s eBay shocks (6s shock shortage at the time).

Update: 4s ebay fronts are great on the 3s front with Typhon arms and length taken out, but the rear 4s eBay shock body is too long. When fully compressed using 2.8 MT wheels w/Typhon arms the shock bottoms out before the chassis does by about 5mm. These have really tall shock caps and if I could get a shock cap with a lower profile eye it would work. Just tried one of my arrma 6s shock caps and they don't fit on these so for now they are going back in the parts bins until I either get longer outcast arms, put on 3.8 wheels/tires, or find a low profile shock cap that fits. Springs are good though so I will recycle those ?

 

[razorrc]

Some quick notes. Some of this is going to sound dumb and obvious, but it's good to put pen to paper.

Springs keep your truck off the ground. The stiffer the spring, the more it resists compression, and the more force (say landing a jump) that is required to get it to compress a certain distance.

Shock fluid slows down the movement of the shock DURING compression AND rebound. When your truck is just sitting there on the ground, the fluid is doing nothing. Nada. Lighter fluid will allow the wheel to follow the unevenness of the ground more easily, because it is quickly compressing and rebounding as you are driving over a rough surface. Thicker fluid will slow down the movement of the shock during hard, forceful compression such as landing a jump, or cornering over high loads (G-forces).

If your truck bounces off the ground too much without much compression, the spring is probably too stiff. If it blows through the stroke too far landing a jump, or the rear squats too much mashing the throttle, or it's rolling too much in turns, then it's probably too soft.

If your truck blows through the shock travel too FAST then your shock oil is probably too light. If it hits the ground and goes thud and the shocks don't move at all, it's probably too thick. Or if the truck feels dead and unresponsive in handling just driving around on the ground. Lighter fluid will make the truck feel livelier and more responsive, thicker fluid will slow everything down.

Springs and fluid work together and will need to be roughly matched. Like, you wouldn't run a really stiff spring with really light fluid, or vice-versa. Front shocks and rear shocks should also be roughly matched (rear shocks usually lighter fluid and softer spring) so that the whole truck moves up and down in unison at the same speed and same distance.

Last thing is there is no such thing as the magic suspension setup. Your setup for doing 20 foot jumps in the air is going to be different than your setup for driving on bumpy dirt is going to be different than your setup for high speed street runs. Everything is a tradeoff, you just have to figure out what type of driving you want to setup for, and everything else will be a compromise.

 

[BashingBrian]

@razorrc ...Nice explanation..???

 

[suchtragedy]

Some quick notes. Some of this is going to sound dumb and obvious, but it's good to put pen to paper.

Springs keep your truck off the ground. The stiffer the spring, the more it resists compression, and the more force (say landing a jump) that is required to get it to compress a certain distance.

Shock fluid slows down the movement of the shock DURING compression AND rebound. When your truck is just sitting there on the ground, the fluid is doing nothing. Nada. Lighter fluid will allow the wheel to follow the unevenness of the ground more easily, because it is quickly compressing and rebounding as you are driving over a rough surface. Thicker fluid will slow down the movement of the shock during hard, forceful compression such as landing a jump, or cornering over high loads (G-forces).

If your truck bounces off the ground too much without much compression, the spring is probably too stiff. If it blows through the stroke too far landing a jump, or the rear squats too much mashing the throttle, or it's rolling too much in turns, then it's probably too soft.

If your truck blows through the shock travel too FAST then your shock oil is probably too light. If it hits the ground and goes thud and the shocks don't move at all, it's probably too thick. Or if the truck feels dead and unresponsive in handling just driving around on the ground. Lighter fluid will make the truck feel livelier and more responsive, thicker fluid will slow everything down.

Springs and fluid work together and will need to be roughly matched. Like, you wouldn't run a really stiff spring with really light fluid, or vice-versa. Front shocks and rear shocks should also be roughly matched (rear shocks usually lighter fluid and softer spring) so that the whole truck moves up and down in unison at the same speed and same distance.

Last thing is there is no such thing as the magic suspension setup. Your setup for doing 20 foot jumps in the air is going to be different than your setup for driving on bumpy dirt is going to be different than your setup for high speed street runs. Everything is a tradeoff, you just have to figure out what type of driving you want to setup for, and everything else will be a compromise.

After collecting a variety of different springs and experimenting I think I got the hang of finding that sweet spot for suspensions in terms of weight of the car, handling, and overall intension of what I am doing with it. I was stuck on how to really "know" when it's right because you can watch unboxing videos all day of a new truck and they always press it up and down on a bench or just pick it up a few feet and drop it and say "yeah that feels really good" and I was just a little confused on how they can tell. Obviously you can use stiffer springs with thicker oils and it looks the same as lighter springs with lighter oils in terms of rebound when pressing up and down in a video but what you can't tell is how much force it takes to press it down, that's something you have to feel out yourself. Once you feel out what good rebound should look like it's then a matter of determining what springs and oil combination to use for your intended purpose and based around the cars weight and other handling characteristics you want depending on the type of driving you'll be doing with it.

Thanks for the reply though, it covers all the fundamentals of how to look at it and definitely helps with knowing where to start when you are first experimenting with different setups, especially after significant modifications to a RC from stock form.

 

[fpvmiller]

Don't forget pistons. Smaller holes to bigger holes make a difference.

Smaller holes on light oil is similar to larger holes on thick oil.

Since oil is affected by temperature you might want to run larger holes with thicker oil in hotter climates. Vice versa for cold.

You can get away with the same weight shock oil front to rear and then just use the softer spring in the rear.

 

[razorrc]

Holes are used to adjust pack. IMO, you should be able to change fluids to adjust for temperature, shouldn't need to change the piston holes.

Anyway, this is a skill that has no end IMO. Like, I'm you're a basketball player, you never really finish "knowing how to shoot". It's something that you'll get better at every day until the day you stop driving. For me, it's a combination of feel, looking at a car, driving it, using tools (I made a spring measuring tool, for example), experience, theory and testing.

But this is only one part of car tuning, there are a hundred other. It's what keeps RC fresh and interesting for me.

 

[Surchaufeur]

I switched to typhon 6s springs for the front again with my 4s kraton springs upon landing the nose would bounce up like a spring compared the feel between both springs inatlled on the truck the typhon ones makes the suspension a great bit softer its try and error to get the suspension right