Fool Spektrum

[SpinRush_C1]

This is just an observation. It would appear these new Spektrum SMART Lipos are "Fool-Proof". I just ordered one of these expensive batts for a rig I have on the way.

After mentioning it in a different thread, I was surprised by the negative reaction it immediately received. One Arrma Inmate wrote, "You have to get the charger now". I gazed at my screen for a minute. Did I miss something here? I have to whip out my credit card again?

This is a sad thing to say, but I think better when I sleep. I tend to solve my own issues after a good night's sleep. I woke up this morning and suddenly panicked. "Maybe it doesn't have a balance lead". That's probably why he said I need Spektrum's charger. I immediately searched for a close-up shot of the battery I ordered. It does have a balance lead. Alright, what am I missing here?

Luckily the RCSaylors put out a good video on it. Spektrum ( Horizon ) made absolutely sure we would understand with their video review. Then it dawned on me!

Matt Damon said it best in the movie "Rounders". "If you can't spot the sucker in your first half-hour at the table, then you are the sucker."

It's me! I'm the guy that is paranoid when it comes to Lipos. Spektrum SMART batteries were made for the noobies. That's me! TheRCSaylors even said it themselves.

I started with DJI Drones. When I realized I wouldn't be able to fly in the winter, I moved over to Bashing. I'm probably not the only one. This new generation of SMART Lipo batteries represents all that is wrong with the World today. We didn't learn how to solder as kids. We are a society that seeks instant gratification. We want everything now and our attention spans are shorter. This in turn, drives up the price of everything.

In Spektrum's defense, after watching their video's and doing some research, it would appear that they made every effort they could to not offend. Those SMART Lipos can still be charged on any hobby grade charger. They made sure to make it compatible with EC3 and EC5. They don't say that outright in their videos, but it's not too hard to read between the lines.

Perhaps it's a good move for the industry? Or was Thanos right? "SMART Lipos are INEVITABLE"? Curious to hear what you guys think?

 

[SrC]

I'm an XT90 guy. I would have to shelf that IC5 connector. Both connectors are fine. I understand its a HH/Spektrum spec. But the lipo itself seems to have decent performance. I don't see people lined up to buy them with the price and all. If you are all into their Smart charger and lipos and making that intial investment, I could see it beneficial. Easy to operate. The lipos are self monitoring etc. Safer? I looked at them closely last year, just after its release.

 

[Clubin]

Not a spectrum fan. At all.

 

[JvG]

If you know how to operate a car with a manual gearbox, a car with an automatic gearbox isn't safer.
It's al about the driver.
Have some faith in yourself!

 

[Cr3pitus]

The main reason I think people say you "need" the smart charger is because you can't set the behavior parameters of the battery without the spektrum charger. You just get whatever they set it to. So really you're paying a premium without getting the premium value of the battery. I believe even without the smart charger the lipos will still eventually discharge themselves to storage, but I'm not sure what the stock timeframe is.

 

[r4nd0m]

not sure where you have sourced that information but Spektrum has been very forthcoming with the information and especially compatibility for EC3/EC5 - the technology is not new its just re-packaged from my perspective with their connector but another solution exists that looks more like the XT connectors, same signal carrier pin etc ..

performance wise - I took the 100C and cant say anything on their longevity yet as they have far too few cycles but it was worth giving them a try - the initial 200W charger is hugely undersized even for 2x5000mah batteries you wont be able to push more than 1C vs other hobby grade chargers - all the bigger ones are single battery only, so for me this is definitely a negative (I tend to charge my packs as 3C).

are they fool proof? the connector is intended to do that already, so no change there - with regards to charging them chip will tell the charger how to charge and in case anything goes wrong eg odd readings it will immediately stop charging and alert - I had that happen before interestingly I couldnt see anything wrong with the pack when checking with ESR meter, my Revolectrix PL8 or Smart checker ...

all in all to be seen what comes down from Spektrum to cater for people with higher demands I think they are at a start of this technology but the idea behind it is similar to what you have already mentioned tech like DJI that does similar things. the real value - if it works fine - is the integrated smart telemetry that you get from a smart esc which then requires the appropriate hardware to support "smart"

the only thing you miss without the smart charger is times charged, over-peak charge/discharge and temperature while charging ... anything else works just fine with any other charger ...

 

[Cr3pitus]

not sure where you have sourced that information but Spektrum has been very forthcoming with the information and especially compatibility for EC3/EC5 - the technology is not new its just re-packaged from my perspective with their connector but another solution exists that looks more like the XT connectors, same signal carrier pin etc ..

performance wise - I took the 100C and cant say anything on their longevity yet as they have far too few cycles but it was worth giving them a try - the initial 200W charger is hugely undersized even for 2x5000mah batteries you wont be able to push more than 1C vs other hobby grade chargers - all the bigger ones are single battery only, so for me this is definitely a negative (I tend to charge my packs as 3C).

are they fool proof? the connector is intended to do that already, so no change there - with regards to charging them chip will tell the charger how to charge and in case anything goes wrong eg odd readings it will immediately stop charging and alert - I had that happen before interestingly I couldnt see anything wrong with the pack when checking with ESR meter, my Revolectrix PL8 or Smart checker ...

all in all to be seen what comes down from Spektrum to cater for people with higher demands I think they are at a start of this technology but the idea behind it is similar to what you have already mentioned tech like DJI that does similar things. the real value - if it works fine - is the integrated smart telemetry that you get from a smart esc which then requires the appropriate hardware to support "smart"

the only thing you miss without the smart charger is times charged, over-peak charge/discharge and temperature while charging ... anything else works just fine with any other charger ...

It looks like just a rebrand of the isdt battgo / isdt smart stuff to me. The only thing about the smart battery system that appeals to me is the logging, the customizable charge rate presets, and the ability to dictate how long the battery waits to self discharge. If you can't do that without the smart charger I'd say that those are the premium value features you aren't getting without the charger.

 

[SpinRush_C1]

The main reason I think people say you "need" the smart charger is because you can't set the behavior parameters of the battery without the spektrum charger. You just get whatever they set it to. So really you're paying a premium without getting the premium value of the battery. I believe even without the smart charger the lipos will still eventually discharge themselves to storage, but I'm not sure what the stock timeframe is.

The stock timeframe is 24 hours later, automatic discharge engages. RCSaylors mentioned that it would take about 6 days on it’s own to discharge to storage mode levels.

 

[Cr3pitus]

The stock timeframe is 24 hours later, automatic discharge engages. RCSaylors mentioned that it would take about 6 days on it’s own to discharge to storage mode levels.

Thanks good info. Is that the maximum speed it can self discharge at? Definitely a nice safety feature, although too slow for my liking. I don't want my packs above storage for over 48hrs. Only asking out of curiosity, I went a different route.

 

[r4nd0m]

Thanks good info. Is that the maximum speed it can self discharge at? Definitely a nice safety feature, although too slow for my liking. I don't want my packs above storage for over 48hrs. Only asking out of curiosity, I went a different route.

well it basically can only discharge based on what the electronic circuit can use and that was pretty low - a 6S 5000mah wont run down in 7 days

this session covers a lot

 

[bicketybam]

I'd love to know how many cycles I have on my batteries without keeping track manually. That's pretty cool ???

 

[Cr3pitus]

I'd love to know how many cycles I have on my batteries without keeping track manually. That's pretty cool ???

Yeah same. Its just a shame that the strongest smart charger to my knowledge is a single channel 500w DC. To go through the process of setting up a dc charging station and then just have one relatively low watt channel isn't that attractive for big packs. Especially 4s and below where you'll end up amp limited. If they would trickle that tech into a 30a 1000w I would have went that route.

 

[SrC]

Yeah same. Its just a shame that the strongest smart charger to my knowledge is a single channel 500w DC. To go through the process of setting up a dc charging station and then just have one relatively low watt channel isn't that attractive for big packs. Especially 4s and below where you'll end up amp limited. If they would trickle that tech into a 30a 1000w I would have went that route.

Spektrum kind of keeps you restricted for sure. I don't feel their setup is for the true hardcore hobbyist. They left us behind. A Millennial thing?

 

[CrashBoom]

Batteries seem to be one of the biggest unknowns for new RC'ers, something like this helps make it more accessible - which is a good thing. But, if you're already knowledgeable, I don't think there's anything too exciting about the "smart" tech.

 

[SrC]

When it comes to lipos, I don't want the fluffy stuff. I want legit advertised specs. I want to drive. And not to be too concerned with my lipo packs.

 

[jonUF02]

I'll stick with $30 "dumb" batteries over $90 smart batteries, I can buy 3 before I break even. At best, the smart batts are 2x the price of what I would buy, basically the cheapest one in my specs. If you don't have the charger to set the discharge settings and read all the fancy stuff on the integrated circuit board then they're pretty limited, now you have expensive "dumb" batteries. I'm also happy with my $100 Hitec dual charger, don't need a new one. I also have various connectors installed which all charge on my charger.

 

[Mongoose]

So how does it self discharge? Is there a LED or something on the pack or does it radiate heat or something? Just wondering where the energy goes.

 

[jondilly1974]

So how does it self discharge? Is there a LED or something on the pack or does it radiate heat or something? Just wondering where the energy goes.

Probably some resistors

 

[Mongoose]

Probably some resistors

Ah, ok. 6 day discharge time would make sense then.

 

[r4nd0m]

So how does it self discharge? Is there a LED or something on the pack or does it radiate heat or something? Just wondering where the energy goes.

the "smart" pcb will consume power when instructed to, so the maximum power draw it has is the consumption capability of the pcb - they explain that in the video I have linked