Gyro for Self Leveling?

[bashingpumpkins]

Has anyone tried to use a gyro for wheelie control, or to get the car to self level when jumping? I know the challenge of controlling the car is most of the fun, but it would also be cool to occasionally just send it and watch it stay perfectly level.

 

[slick2500]

I don't even think that is possible with current gyro tech at least not for a car anyway.

 

[PaPa Thorn]

From my understanding a gyro on a car is more of steering control and doesn't effect pitch. But, I'm no expert, I've never used one.

 

[SrC]

RC car gyros are single-Axis plane by design. x/y For Steering control only. Self leveling cant be achieved with this Tech. Many big air guys find gyros a nuisance and inhibit precise mid air control because mid in mid air the ST wheels will flail left to right. You will be countering that ST control yourself ideally. You can easily USE St. to direct Your rig in the air yourself. A 3 axis gyro probably with GPS/GNASS assistance would need to be used and integrated with both St and Thr. (at the ESC), such like Drones/Quads use for stability in the air. I could see that technology trickling down to Surface RC some years ahead.

 

[slick2500]

RC car gyros are 2-AXIS by design. For Steering control only. Self leveling cant be achieved with this Tech. Many big air guys find gyros a nuisance and inhibit precise mid air control because mid in mid air the ST wheels will flail left to right. You will be countering that ST control yourself ideally. You can easily USE St. to direct Your rig in the air yourself.

Yup even a heli or plane gyro would still only control the steering.

Keeping the car level when jumping is fairly easy if the rig is well balanced. Do not hit the ramp at 100% throttle hit it at about 60-70% max, take baby steps to get a feel for the car, the ramp and your approach. Do not let off the throttle as you come off the ramp, or else you will nose dive, keep on the throttle steady. If it starts to nose up let off a little bit if it starts to nose down give it a little more. Keep the wheels straight if you turn the wheels the car will pitch one way or the other.

 

[SrC]

^^^ But some Quads do have that ability built in using GPS and using Multi-Axis gyros that maintain yaw and pitch and leveling. Much like the higher end DJI's. Thats what makes them autonomous, and hands free. It would be fascinating to be able to send it with all you got and let go of the Radio and watch it come down perfect every time. But controlling all that yourself is what bashing is all about, and what separates the men and ladies from the boys and girls.

Yup even a heli or plane gyro would still only control the steering.

Keeping the car level when jumping is fairly easy if the rig is well balanced. Do not hit the ramp at 100% throttle hit it at about 60-70% max, take baby steps to get a feel for the car, the ramp and your approach. Do not let off the throttle as you come off the ramp, or else you will nose dive, keep on the throttle steady. If it starts to nose up let off a little bit if it starts to nose down give it a little more. Keep the wheels straight if you turn the wheels the car will pitch one way or the other.

Yes, that is exactly how its done.

 

[PaPa Thorn]

RC car gyros are 2-AXIS by design. For Steering control only. Self leveling cant be achieved with this Tech. Many big air guys find gyros a nuisance and inhibit precise mid air control because mid in mid air the ST wheels will flail left to right. You will be countering that ST control yourself ideally. You can easily USE St. to direct Your rig in the air yourself. A 3 axis gyro probably with GPS/GNASS assistance would need to be used and integrated with both St and Thr. (at the ESC), ,uch like Drones/Quads use for stability in the air. I could that technology trickling down to Surface RC some years ahead.

A Kraton with flaps and ailerons could work too. ??

 

[SrC]

^^^ a new model of Arrma rig. called A 6S/8S Carplane.

 

[Camaroboy383]

Yes it is possible, but the results will not be as suspected.. it will go crazy in the air.. the actions will be violent from brake to throttle as it oscillates between the two.. gain input can be decreased but likely never apply gently enough to keep complete air control..

 

[bashingpumpkins]

^^^ But some Quads do have that ability built in using GPS and using Multi-Axis gyros that maintain yaw and pitch and leveling. Much like the higher end DJI's. Thats what makes them autonomous, and hands free. It would be fascinating to be able to send it with all you got and let go of the Radio and watch it come down perfect every time. But controlling all that yourself is what bashing is all about, and what separates the men and ladies from the boys and girls.

Yes, that is exactly how its done.

This is what I had in mind. I know the steering gyros aren’t built for this purpose, but there is other technology that could be made to work by someone that knows what they are doing. It would be a good way to let beginners and friends try jumps without wrecking your car. Kind of like a valet mode.

Yes it is possible, but the results will not be as suspected.. it will go crazy in the air.. the actions will be violent from brake to throttle as it oscillates between the two.. gain input can be decreased but likely never apply gently enough to keep complete air control..

The response rate would definitely need to be calibrated.

 

[SrC]

The technology is available in a la carte parts form. Custom Quad copter parts and all. You would need a very knowledgeable Quad builder to help with this one and programming PID code with fast processor IC's. No easy task at all. But in theory can work. Its all about integrating with a proper Surface ESC. That may be the limiting factor. Quad ESC's are very different with way different setting profiles. The ESC would have to have open code FW. Surface ESC's don't. You will need multi channel mixing. Oh it gets deep. I have a decent understanding of quad tech. But by no means am educated enough to build it and program it. I have a friend who builds Quads and I always tap his brain in regard to how he builds them. I learned what little know from him.

 

[Camaroboy383]

No need for all that.. buy a gyro for a heli.. put it in, and try it... adjust gains through dash pots..

 

[SrC]

^^^ it just wouldn't work.

 

[Camaroboy383]

It will work, just not sure on the gain unless it's a expensive gyro.. even then it would be a very fine line.. heli gyros are way more sophisticated than needed in this case.. but it will function just fine..

 

[Sloclone100]

The technology is available in a la carte parts form. Custom Quad copter parts and all. You would need a very knowledgeable Quad builder to help with this one and programming PID code with fast processor IC's. No easy task at all. But in theory can work. Its all about integrating with a proper Surface ESC. That may be the limiting factor. Quad ESC's are very different with way different setting profiles. The ESC would have to have open code FW. Surface ESC's don't. You will need multi channel mixing. Oh it gets deep. I have a decent understanding of quad tech. But by no means am educated enough to build it and program it. I have a friend who builds Quads and I always tap his brain in regard to how he builds them. I learned what little know from him.

As long as you mounted it correctly - I have used one in the 90's in an R/C submarine with groundbreaking and published results!

 

[rotauq]

A gyro only works fine when it's corrections give expected results. Having it tweaked to work perfectly in air would mean it would already freak out on the ramp as the response with or without surface contact is completely different. Maybe enabling it with a button in air could work still work.

 

[L3phturn]

It will work, just not sure on the gain unless it's a expensive gyro.. even then it would be a very fine line.. heli gyros are way more sophisticated than needed in this case.. but it will function just fine..

The gyro doesn’t matter because the ESC and the controls don’t have the level of control that a multi-rotor or a helicopter has. A quad is controlled by the ESC controlling power to each of 4 motors to allow control on 6 axis. A surface ESC only has a throttle so only 2 axis. On top of that the receiver and ESC do not have the capability to use the gyro signal to modify throttle input. It is possible but only with the ability to rewrite the receiver and ESC software to make it work.

 

[Camaroboy383]

The gyro doesn’t matter because the ESC and the controls don’t have the level of control that a multi-rotor or a helicopter has. A quad is controlled by the ESC controlling power to each of 4 motors to allow control on 6 axis. A surface ESC only has a throttle so only 2 axis. On top of that the receiver and ESC do not have the capability to use the gyro signal to modify throttle input. It is possible but only with the ability to rewrite the receiver and ESC software to make it work.

I'm surprised this thread was dug from the archives.. ... It was never about multi axis stabilization.. A heli gyro and a multi rotor gyro are two different animals.. A heli gyro works on one axis and controls one channel, the rudder...

No reprogramming of esc needed, it would control the throttle/ brake in the same fashion as a rudder if the gyro was mounted horizontal instead of vertical...

I'm not saying this is a functional idea, but would it control throttle and brake with yaw on that axis? Yes, very much so..

 

[Tex Koder]

The main issue would be for the system to detect when you have "really jumped" (not just skipped into the air from hitting a rock/stick/dip in the ground) AND a way to detect altitude of the vehicle from the ground (while in forward motion, not tumbling or doing cartwheels etc...). Plus, it needs to know distance of the next "landing" area is ,so it can make the necessary adjustments while inflight before hitting said landing location.

That's quite a bit of calculations to be making per second...
To have all that processing power (let alone to write that much custom software to do all that FAST) may not be feasible on such a small 1/10 or even 1/7 scale chassis.
Because you are really trying to achieve a "controlled CRASH into the ground and keep going"..., not just simple flight in the air and avoid bumping into solid objects...

 

[LibertyMKiii]

The answer as @Tex Koder mentioned is that you would have to engineer such a product and a simple gyro alone is not going to do it.

You would have to take a micro controller like the Arduino and program it for all the scenarios. It would be a massive project on the coding side not for the light of heart.

Initial thoughts
1. It would need an altitude meter to first determine you left the ground and you would have to input some minimal change value so it ignores the little stuff or going over a dirt hill.
2. Some sort of gyro to sense the angle of attack the RC vehicle is at presently.
3. Motor RPM sensor
3. PID control logic to quickly change the angle of attack without "over doing it" via the motor and tire rotation.
4. Tons of testing and tweaking till it works right.

Biggest issues even after all that work.... it would likely be specific to that vehicle, tire weight/rotational mass, motor KV and gearing.