Kraton Hobbywing max 6 and performance

[Opua]

Hi, I would like to assemble a Kraton 6s a combo hobbywing max 6 (esc ezrun with 4985 engine) what should I expect? Since I hate the model wheelies, I could change the oil on the differentials as I have now, i.e. 60k front, 50k center and 20 rear, now with the spektrum combined as standard the model does not wheelie. With the max 6 combo compared to the stock combo will the model be faster? It can now reach around 53 mph.

 

[Shadows]

Hi, I would like to assemble a Kraton 6s a combo hobbywing max 6 (esc ezrun with 4985 engine) what should I expect? Since I hate the model wheelies, I could change the oil on the differentials as I have now, i.e. 60k front, 50k center and 20 rear, now with the spektrum combined as standard the model does not wheelie. With the max 6 combo compared to the stock combo will the model be faster? It can now reach around 53 mph.

It would have more torque (faster acceleration) but not really any more top speed. You would need to gear-up to have more top speed. As far as avoiding wheelies, you don’t need to go as thin as 50k diff fluid. I wouldn't go lower than 80k for a Kraton 6s. Is it a regular, non EXB, like a V5? If so, I definitely wouldn't go lower than 80k for the center differential. Any thinner than that would put most of the power to the front wheels. Would be a bad torque balance.

 

[slick2500]

Easiest way to mitigate wheelies is to learn proper throttle control. My Kraton 6s EXB with the Max6 4985 1650kv combo will do standing backflips if I wanted to but at the same time I have zero problems keeping all 4 wheels on the ground with the factory diff fluids.

 

[Dales396lt4]

Trigger control is key for most things, RC. as for it being faster I think it will be slower the 2050 KV motor turns more RPM Per volt than the 1650kv 4985. You definitely need to gear up just to make the same top speed.

 

[RC Steve]

Only one of my Max 6 have caught on fire so far. In fairness it was a G1.

A Max 6 will run a bit hotter than a Castle MX8/1717 combo but their response is tighter. Doing forward flips and pulling out of backflips is easier with a Max 6. I think a 1717 motor has a bit more power than the Hobbywing, but not by much.

For speed I think a Castle system is better.
For jumping and stunting I think a Hobbywing system is better.

I have trucks with both systems in them.

 

[HoppysRC]

I have a max6 combo and I run 300k center and my kraton does not wheelie unless I demand it to. Make sure your front and rear suspension is set up to support how you want to drive. Soften the rear end up a bit stiffen up the front. etc. But I can full throttle launch the truck from a slow roll and it will stay planted. Tinker with suspension. Oil, Stiffness, and geometry. I feel like that isnt talked about enough on these trucks. You can really get them to do whatever you want if you spend time tuning them.

 

[Shadows]

Easiest way to mitigate wheelies is to learn proper throttle control. My Kraton 6s EXB with the Max6 4985 1650kv combo will do standing backflips if I wanted to but at the same time I have zero problems keeping all 4 wheels on the ground with the factory diff fluids.

To be fair, some want to rush out of a turn (with more throttle) without the front-end lifting. Hence, why there's so much diff tuning with the race crowd. Throttle control definitely has its place, but so does personal preference. As far as handling goes, it's all relevant.

I have a max6 combo and I run 300k center and my kraton does not wheelie unless I demand it to. Make sure your front and rear suspension is set up to support how you want to drive. Soften the rear end up a bit stiffen up the front. etc. But I can full throttle launch the truck from a slow roll and it will stay planted. Tinker with suspension. Oil, Stiffness, and geometry. I feel like that isnt talked about enough on these trucks. You can really get them to do whatever you want if you spend time tuning them.

Right. Tinker. Find out through firsthand experience. You can't beat that, for sure.

When I said 80k minimum, I meant absolute MINIMUM. Stock 100k is perfectly acceptable to avoid wheelies with (what was pointed out) throttle control. Especially with a heavier Max 6 motor combo. Personally, I'd leave the center diff with stock fluid, and put in a much thicker viscosity fluid in the front diff for what he's going for.

 

[NitroK]

Got the 4985 in my K6. 500k center diff. Takes a while to learn throttle control to keep it planted on all four wheels. Can gear up for higher speed but its a basher and torque is more fun

 

[Opua]

Now in my Kraton 6s (spektrum combo) i have put 60k front, 100k center (i was confused with my team corally shogun) and 20 rear and the wheelie is desappeared but with combo Max6 if I put big pinion and a spur with less teeth it will go faster?

 

[Shadows]

Now in my Kraton 6s (spektrum combo) i have put 60k front, 100k center (i was confused with my team corally shogun) and 20 rear and the wheelie is desappeared but with combo Max6 if I put big pinion and a spur with less teeth it will go faster?

Yeah, it would go faster, top speed-wise. I'd be careful with the gearing I were you. Am a little leery about the mention of a spur gear with "less teeth." A higher gear ratio spur gear is usually for road models that have smaller wheels & tires. Even the larger 1650kv Max 6 combo can get stressed from over-gearing. It depends on what wheels & tires you plan to run, what surface you plan on running it, and how long of a duration you plan on being g full throttle with it. Do you plan on all-out speed running this kraton on cement/asphalt, or offroad in the dirt?

 

[Opua]

Yeah, it would go faster, top speed-wise. I'd be careful with the gearing I were you. Am a little leery about the mention of a spur gear with "less teeth." A higher gear ratio spur gear is usually for road models that have smaller wheels & tires. Even the larger 1650kv Max 6 combo can get stressed from over-gearing. It depends on what wheels & tires you plan to run, what surface you plan on running it, and how long of a duration you plan on being g full throttle with it. Do you plan on all-out speed running this kraton on cement/asphalt, or offroad in the dirt?

I would use it in off road, but anyway I'd like more speed and power. Maybe should be better an hobbywing max 8 G2?

 

[NitroK]

Now in my Kraton 6s (spektrum combo) i have put 60k front, 100k center (i was confused with my team corally shogun) and 20 rear and the wheelie is desappeared but with combo Max6 if I put big pinion and a spur with less teeth it will go faster?

If you are installing the max6 combo , 1650kv compared to 2050kv on stock spectrum. You will need to increase motor pinion size to get back to same speed (assuming stock is 15T, then (2050 x 15) / 1650 = 18.6T would get you back to stock speed theoretically)

 

[Shadows]

I would use it in off road, but anyway I'd like more speed and power. Maybe should be better an hobbywing max 8 G2?

I am a bit confused. You first said you planned on a Max 6 combination. Now a Max 8? Either way, for offroad use, I definitely would not change your spur gear ratio, and be careful with motor pinion choice. For offroad with a Max 6 combo, I personally wouldn't go any higher than a 20t pinion. For a Max 8, I wouldn't go much more than a couple of teeth higher than the stock. A Castle 1717 with MMX 8s ESC may be what you're looking for in terms of the most speed for offroad with a K6.

 

[HoppysRC]

I am a bit confused. You first said you planned on a Max 6 combination. Now a Max 8? Either way, for offroad use, I definitely would not change your spur gear ratio, and be careful with motor pinion choice. For offroad with a Max 6 combo, I personally wouldn't go any higher than a 20t pinion. For a Max 8, I wouldn't go much more than a couple of teeth higher than the stock. A Castle 1717 with MMX 8s ESC may be what you're looking for in terms of the most speed for offroad with a K6.

Im guessing he means Max5 and got the models confused lol

 

[Opua]

I am a bit confused. You first said you planned on a Max 6 combination. Now a Max 8? Either way, for offroad use, I definitely would not change your spur gear ratio, and be careful with motor pinion choice. For offroad with a Max 6 combo, I personally wouldn't go any higher than a 20t pinion. For a Max 8, I wouldn't go much more than a couple of teeth higher than the stock. A Castle 1717 with MMX 8s ESC may be what you're looking for in terms of the most speed for offroad with a K6.

The starting idea is a Max6 combo, then I thought that perhaps for my purpose a max 8 might be better, in any case I ask here in the forum for advice on which of the two would be better for my purpose.
I wouldn't also rule out a max 6 esc with another motor perhaps with more kv

 

[Dan B.]

Max 6 all day long. Just do it. Why are we even still contemplating it?

 

[Dales396lt4]

Max 6 g2 for sure! And your choice of motor like a 4278 2250kv and a stock pinion.

 

[Shadows]

Max 6 g2 for sure! And your choice of motor like a 4278 2250kv and a stock pinion.

I don't know about a higher KV motor like that with a Max 6 ESC. To my knowledge, they (Max 6) don't take too well to that. They don't seem to wanna go much beyond 1730kv tops. Rich Duperbash ran a 4274 2000kv and it fried the Max 6 after a few runs. Hobbywing knows that 1650kv is pretty much it's limit. They obviously went with that KV to give some lipo cell flexibility. Otherwise, the ESC is really better off running 8s....really. Imo. Mine runs cooler on 8s without a SHADOW of a doubt. I realize there's a Redcat version of it limited to 6s, but even at that, it's still better on it to run 6s paired with a lower kv motor. Main thing being the low KV. For a higher KV, (above 1650) I'd definitely go for a Max 8 with a 42mm diameter motor. If with a 4092, a 1730kv, no more and no less. MAYBE a 4585 at 1800kv TOPS. But preferably Hobbywing's 4278, then manage expectations and gear accordingly.

Best to follow Dan B's suggestion. Just get the Max 6 combo and call it a day. Perfect combination for a Kraton 6s going offroad.

 

[parcou]

Hi, I would like to assemble a Kraton 6s a combo hobbywing max 6 (esc ezrun with 4985 engine) what should I expect? Since I hate the model wheelies, I could change the oil on the differentials as I have now, i.e. 60k front, 50k center and 20 rear, now with the spektrum combined as standard the model does not wheelie. With the max 6 combo compared to the stock combo will the model be faster? It can now reach around 53 mph.

Hi

This is good feedback from a lot of folks here. I like what @Shadows and @HoppysRC posted

I hear a lot about throttle control, and it is true. But at the same time I do have and can use throttle control I want to lay on the throttle and the front wheels drive the RC so I can steer it on power. The diffs are big here, especially the center diff oil. This is how I gear all my rigs. I want to drive it without the wheels in the air so I need front wheel driving. Your tires, the terrain you are bashing on, and your bashing style have a lot of play in this.

Before I knew how to build my rigs to drive the way I wanted, I used the HW Max6 combo with the 4985 motor that is famous for the Kraton 6S. Personally, I did not like it. I could use throttle control, but when I wanted to do technical driving and power it, the wheels came up, and there was no direction steering...yeah slow down, but I want to stay on power and turn under control.

This is a bit different, and I was not going to change the electronics. I made the Kraton 6S EXB as close as a 6S speed but under 4S power. So far, I am very happy it still runs neck/neck competition with my best bud, E-Revo 2.0 6S, in technical bash driving.

I am not advising this for you, as I said I would have built the Kraton differently, like I did my Talion EXB, Fireteam, etc., to stay down with power.

Kraton 6S EXB on 4S only:
- ESC: HW Max6
- Motor: HW 4985 1650kv
- Pinion: 20T >>> adds the speed back but keeps rig cool on 4S
- Receiver: 6110AT
- Servo: ProModeler DS630BLHV
- Diffs: 50/100/20k LSD|open rear >>>> center diff LSD makes close 200k helps keep down
- Tires: BF LPs 4S

ESC
- LVC: HW Low
- BEC: 7.4v
- Punch: 4 >>> Adds in the help that off-the-line launch works with above to stay down
- Brakes: 62.5%
- MotorTi: NA

ON PAPER...using speed calculator spreadsheet gear ratio, tire size, voltage, FDR, motor KV, spur, pinion, etc:

6S = 12T pinion = BF LP tires = 4.2v full charge = 41.8 MPH
4S = 20T pinion = BF LP tires = 4.2v full charge = 46.4 MPH

Happy!!! on 4S. My goal with the calculator was to keep the motor under 50K RPM and find the best pinion to match my desired outcome. Yeah, I could go up on a 6S pinion as well as a 4S pinion, but motor RPM and temperatures are important.

I love my Kraton on 4S for a basher; it moves. I did this only on this 6S rig since I already had those monster electronics. Fast-forward to today, I would not run that motor again to get the control I like as I did for the other 6S.

I know I did not answer your question, so best of luck with a pick.

 

[Opua]

Thanks everyone for the replies, I think I will choose the Max6 combo (4985 engine) level 1 punch, 20t pinion and differential oil as I have now in order to limit it to a minimum the wheelie.