Infraction How come no aftermarket companies have come out with shocks?

[Greengaunja]

My LHS recommended the same diff oil combo (500k front, 1 mil center, 100k rear). Told me the 500 up front keeps the wheelies down while the 1 mill center would evenly distribute power to all 4 wheels. Also said ALWAYS keep the rear heavier than stock (10k) but light since alot of torque is gonna hit the back. I've been running that in my Talion ever since and love it...no diff issues at all. I like to run and gun street/parking lot bash with no jumps. Another guy told me to do 500/1mil/500 but I haven't tried it cause the 500/1mil/100 has been working so well.

Your rear differential should always be lighter than front. But again, it comes down to your style and preference. This is why it's hard to give straight answers when people ask what they should run. And it applies to anything and everything from shock/diff weights, tires, electronics, etc. Because what works for you may not for me, and vice versa. Personally, I feel anyone should look at what they are good at(acceleration, turns, jumps etc) and compliment that first and foremost with what you use. Then try to enhance your weaker areas. Then you apply what you are doing with your rc. (Racing, onroad, offroad, aerobatics, or Evel Knievel style long jumps etc)
When I first got into this hobby, I tried to build an rc equally good on road as off road. And wasted alot of money before accepting what everyone tried to tell me. I should have know better because it's the same with or RL vehicles. It's either great off road or great on road. But average at best for both on the same setup. Take toeing for example. Offroad you get a better control with fronts toed out. Onroad(depending on tires) you have more control toed straight or in. A good example is the control I had when my Senton was still 6s. Belted Trenchers where toed inwards. Hoons/GRPs were toed as straight as possible. The weight and widths of the tires(and offsets) changed way the RC reacted.

Hey, when you do your diffs, if you have an air compressor or anything else that shakes, put the diff in a vessel, (especially the 20M), and let the vibrations shake all the air bubbles out of the fluid. Turbocharges all the air bubbles up and out of the fluid, snd helps the really thick stuff settle into the diff cup.

That's worth trying. I was going to warm it up(someone else here wrote about using that method). I have more than a few things suitable for vibration, probably the best is my Senton 3s thanks to imbalanced GPM rear CVDs lol

 

[SrC]

For sure, I'd say the tuning of the chassis is a huge factor. Wish I took videos of all my test runs during the 8s conversion because it's THAT obvious how traction, control, and speed improved as I made tweaks here and there. One guy in my local RC group was even curious how I lowered the Senton and he has years over me(I just got my first year in the hobby a few weeks ago). Even the head tech at my LHS thought I was going to burn out the ESC and/or motor with my gearing and weight. Spring adjustment is another one of those tweaks that do far more than people bargain for. It's the sole reason I'm debating purchasing a SkyRc corner weight scale system. Right now I'm going by "feel" and I'm confident enough to say I have "good" right/left balance. But because I'm drooped so low on the front end, I have maybe 1/4 of an inch shock action at most. This translates to needing minimal cracks or elevation surfaces to run on or chassis slap will launch it up. To counter that and ease up on the droop, I made another mod that should (in theory) have a significant effect. I'm going to lower the center of gravity simply by mounting batteries side by side. Which also might throw balancing off. The corner weight system will fine tune that for me by showing all 4 corners. Then it's simply add or remove weight where needed.

You are far from any newb by any means at this juncture.
I swear by saddling my packs. (in Stock config). But with some rig layouts just not feasible.
( motor placement, etc)
You are at a point where the Cross Weight scale will fine tune things even better now. Not cheap and rarely used for the most part. I couldn't live without mine though. It will reveal things in your setup that will surprise you. Any rig. Take you to the next level.
Even with a Crawler rig. Any rig.
It is expensive as RC tools go, yes. Indispensable though.

 

[Wade Wilson]

Your rear differential should always be lighter than front. But again, it comes down to your style and preference. This is why it's hard to give straight answers when people ask what they should run. And it applies to anything and everything from shock/diff weights, tires, electronics, etc. Because what works for you may not for me, and vice versa. Personally, I feel anyone should look at what they are good at(acceleration, turns, jumps etc) and compliment that first and foremost with what you use. Then try to enhance your weaker areas. Then you apply what you are doing with your rc. (Racing, onroad, offroad, aerobatics, or Evel Knievel style long jumps etc)
When I first got into this hobby, I tried to build an rc equally good on road as off road. And wasted alot of money before accepting what everyone tried to tell me. I should have know better because it's the same with or RL vehicles. It's either great off road or great on road. But average at best for both on the same setup. Take toeing for example. Offroad you get a better control with fronts toed out. Onroad(depending on tires) you have more control toed straight or in. A good example is the control I had when my Senton was still 6s. Belted Trenchers where toed inwards. Hoons/GRPs were toed as straight as possible. The weight and widths of the tires(and offsets) changed way the RC reacted.

That's worth trying. I was going to warm it up(someone else here wrote about using that method). I have more than a few things suitable for vibration, probably the best is my Senton 3s thanks to imbalanced GPM rear CVDs lol

I do this with anything with oil, shocks, diffs, cleaning bearings, gluing tyres, mixing cocktails…

 

[SrC]

Hey, when you do your diffs, if you have an air compressor or anything else that shakes, put the diff in a vessel, (especially the 20M), and let the vibrations shake all the air bubbles out of the fluid. Turbocharges all the air bubbles up and out of the fluid, snd helps the really thick stuff settle into the diff cup.

I take it to the next level. I use a Shock vacuum pump.(used with all my shock filling also) I always get all the air out of my diffs filled before closing them up. After a few cycles of that I will always notice the level got lower as air comes out. You would be surprised how much volume more of diff oil can be added. If you don't, the diff action will feel like it has thinner fluid than you are using. And air remaining causes additinal friction heat inside the diff under load. Becomes an underfilled diff if you don't 99% of the time. Diff fuid is so thick, that air gets trapped and it take much time to rise out of the oil. Air that you simply cannot see. But the diff placed inside the vaccum chamber and pumped shows a tremendous amount of air releasing. It is visble through the clear top of the pump. Pro level track 1/8 guys always do this!
I am using The Tamiya Xtra large Vaccum pump here. Fits large 1/8 shocks and diffs inside it. been using a vacuum pump for years. This is my 3rd in like 12 years or so. For me a must have tool. I don't work on shocks or diffs without it. It takes much time with thick diff fluids. You just can't rush filling any diff or shocks. That works against you. Patience. I have much much better luck with my diffs than doing without this procedure.
And conversely, overfilling will hurt you also. Oil will blow past the O-rings and the gasket. Then seals are breached and you end up with a leaker. A mess... then to disassemble and resart the whole process again. Having a short lived diff.

 

[Wade Wilson]

I take it to the next level. I use a Shock vacuum pump.(used with all my shock filling also) I always get all the air out of my diffs filled before closing them up. After a few cycles of that I will always notice the level got lower as air comes out. You would be surprised how much volume more of diff oil can be added. If you don't, the diff action will feel like it has thinner fluid than you are using. And air remaining causes additinal friction heat inside the diff under load. Becomes an underfilled diff if you don't 99% of the time. Diff fuid is so thick, that air gets trapped and it take much time to rise out of the oil. Air that you simply cannot see. But the diff placed inside the vaccum chamber and pumped shows a tremendous amount of air releasing. It is visble through the clear top of the pump. Pro level track 1/8 guys always do this!
I am using The Tamiya Xtra large Vaccum pump here. Fits large 1/8 shocks and diffs inside it. been using a vacuum pump for years. This is my 3rd in like 12 years or so. For me a must have tool. I don't work on shocks or diffs without it. It takes much time with thick diff fluids. You just can't rush filling any diff or shocks. That works against you. Patience. I have much much better luck with my diffs than doing without this procedure.
And conversely, overfilling will hurt you also. Oil will blow past the O-rings and the gasket. Then seals are breached and you end up with a leaker. A mess... then to disassemble and resart the whole process again. Having a short lived diff.

View attachment 168498

View attachment 168499

That is the very genesis of sickness. I’ve got an old vacuum pump among my luthier tool shop. Ima have to incorporate it in my maintenance, but the only problem is I don’t believe it’s gonna be able to mix cocktails…dammit

 

[SrC]

It is possible to create a vacuum chamber of sorts. Electric pump or hand pump doesn't matter. Creating the sealed chamber that will visibly show the diff or shock matters. You need to see it while it is under vaccum.
The Tamiya Pump I use is not a cheap item for some. Depends how you look at it. there are mechanical electric versions out there by other brands. I prefer this Tamiya pump. The pros are mostly using this one, The LONG version fits the bill. It used to be double the price and usually on B/O.

https://www.amainhobbies.com/tamiya...l-tool-super-long-tam54152/p-quqrqseqtm2xactz
I always use this for every single shock or diff I work on. Religiously. Working/filling shocks with lighter weight thin oil, 20w -40w , you can just get away without this. Using your technique. Tapping and vibrating. I do that also, sometimes even with the pump. 500kcst and 1mil can take awhile even with the pump. But with Thick diff oil or shock weights over 50w I need to vacuum out the air. Shocks become well matched and diffs run incredible. Done this way, you actually get the diff action precise with the selected CST of the chosen Silicone oil. Every single time, the same. Why Pros do this. Again any air remaining in the diff oil makes for a lighter diff action than your target CST should give. 500CST will feel like 300 or 200 cst, etc. Just my thoughts.

FWIW. The Above picture was 500 cst for my 6s diffs. It would probably take more than 24 hours and longer with this diff just sitting on my bench open to release that much of the air from the Sil. oil. The diff was initially filled close to the top. After it was vacuumed out, I was able to add almost 50% more oil.

On a side note:
I feel this is one reason Arrma diffs "out the box" are very low on oil to begin with. The factory is not filling them properly and doing so inconsistently, rushing the fill and even saving $$$ by underfilling them as a result. Silicone oil is expensive to begin with. OE's know this. My spin.

 

[Wade Wilson]

Totally agree on all points. I am def going to incorporate this, as I use heavy diff oil, as well as shock oil. I tend to rebuild my diffs and shocks fairly frequently, and that fluid is not cheap. Excited to experience the difference, as I do leave the shock/diff on the compressor for 20-30 min, but you’re absolutely right that using a vacuum is going to make a huge difference.

I tend to really beat the crap out of my Xmaxx, and any performance gain will be welcomed. I rebuild my shocks and diffs on that thing religiously, as I’m in Colorado, (lots and lots of dust), and tend to really launch and high speed rally it.

 

[SrC]

If you are like me, meticulous about shocks and diffs. This truly works. Many here on AF don't bother as these are mere bashers. I get that.
Thought I would share this again here. I mentioned this several times here on AF. Without much interest from others. It may sound like a snake oil gimmeck. It is not. Maybe this technique is beyond the scope of basher rigs. IDK. I was traditionally focused on Racing early in my RC days. This technique is the norm at the serious track level races these days. And translates well to any RC rig IMHO.

Its just a sin to leave this much air in your diff oil, thinking you are filled and ready to close it up!

 

[Wade Wilson]

If you are like me, meticulous about shocks and diffs. This truly works. Many here on AF don't bother as these are mere bashers. I get that.
Thought I would share this again here. I mentioned this several times here on AF. Without much interest from others. It may sound like a snake oil gimmeck. It is not. Maybe this technique is beyond the scope of basher rigs. IDK. I was traditionally focused on Racing early in my RC days. This technique is the norm at the serious track level races these days. And translates well to any RC rig IMHO.

Agreed. I’m a former racer as well, all sorts of Motorsport, and I’m very well versed in how much consistency and technique translates into speed. I guess I’m a “basher” now? I still pay just as much attention to my setups and maintenance. Even bashing, when you know how your ride is going to respond in a given situation, you can go bigger, faster, just push the envelope without worrying about your differential exploding due to lazy, uninformed, inconsistent setups and rebuilds. All those little things matter, big time. Either the machines feel “right” or they feel “wrong”.

I know a lot of people who don’t let their diffs even sit for 10 min…

 

[SrC]

I am a gear head and recently took control of a 59 Corvette project myself. My friend was getting the run around everywhere else. I took over the project. Untouched , now its a runner with little effort. Was a PA barn find 18 years ago ($6k) and my friend placed it in a heated garage since then. We relate. Was also a Toyota Tech, Toyota trained for a Toy Dealer for 8 years, out of college while struggling to get into another field. We are on the same page for sure.
Agree there are many ways something can be done and it may be good enough for most .... But there is only one correct way. Details matter to some.

 

[Greengaunja]

You are far from any newb by any means at this juncture.
I swear by saddling my packs. (in Stock config). But with some rig layouts just not feasible.
( motor placement, etc)
You are at a point where the Cross Weight scale will fine tune things even better now. Not cheap and rarely used for the most part. I couldn't live without mine though. It will reveal things in your setup that will surprise you. Any rig. Take you to the next level.
Even with a Crawler rig. Any rig.
It is expensive as RC tools go, yes. Indispensable though.

For sure, it will fine tune. The tech at my LHS says the average RCer does not need this. Usually it's only Pros or SERIOUS RC folks that own them. And once familiar with one and your rc, it's a diagnostic tool too. The SkyRC model would be just over $200 with taxes. And on backorder. Amazon sellers have some but are charging premium. He's offered to do mine for me but said it's better to own one myself because once you get readings, you start tweaking and that process can take days to weeks perfecting.

 

[Wade Wilson]

Wow…a freaking ‘59? That’s the 283 V8? That’s a unicorn find for sure!

Been driving Toyota’s since I was 16 Pretty much all ive ever owned as my daily’s.

Been racing my CBR600 for the last couple years, love the sport bikes on a track The first thing I did with it was take it to a pro suspension guy and had him set it up for my weight, height, and re-valve the forks and shock. The bike was SO much quicker after that. I’ve always been fascinated by how much speed is in the suspension of whatever your driving. The biggest mistake is to put a bunch of $$$ into the engine, and not the chassis. Such an awesome feeling to spend a day on the chassis setup, and then 2 seconds disappear from your lap time

 

[Greengaunja]

I take it to the next level. I use a Shock vacuum pump.(used with all my shock filling also) I always get all the air out of my diffs filled before closing them up. After a few cycles of that I will always notice the level got lower as air comes out. You would be surprised how much volume more of diff oil can be added. If you don't, the diff action will feel like it has thinner fluid than you are using. And air remaining causes additinal friction heat inside the diff under load. Becomes an underfilled diff if you don't 99% of the time. Diff fuid is so thick, that air gets trapped and it take much time to rise out of the oil. Air that you simply cannot see. But the diff placed inside the vaccum chamber and pumped shows a tremendous amount of air releasing. It is visble through the clear top of the pump. Pro level track 1/8 guys always do this!
I am using The Tamiya Xtra large Vaccum pump here. Fits large 1/8 shocks and diffs inside it. been using a vacuum pump for years. This is my 3rd in like 12 years or so. For me a must have tool. I don't work on shocks or diffs without it. It takes much time with thick diff fluids. You just can't rush filling any diff or shocks. That works against you. Patience. I have much much better luck with my diffs than doing without this procedure.
And conversely, overfilling will hurt you also. Oil will blow past the O-rings and the gasket. Then seals are breached and you end up with a leaker. A mess... then to disassemble and resart the whole process again. Having a short lived diff.

View attachment 168498

View attachment 168499

Damn, that's sweet. When I did my diffs, I just left open snd filled overnight. But that won't guarantee all air is out, especially in thicker oils and even if given a week. Hell I can see trapped air remaining in 1m left out for a month. Haven't opened the 20m yet but won't be surprised if I can scoop out with my fingers and mold it.
Gives me an idea. I have friend with a rather large vacuum purger he uses in his "hobby". Same idea and I wonder if it would work the same.

If you are like me, meticulous about shocks and diffs. This truly works. Many here on AF don't bother as these are mere bashers. I get that.
Thought I would share this again here. I mentioned this several times here on AF. Without much interest from others. It may sound like a snake oil gimmeck. It is not. Maybe this technique is beyond the scope of basher rigs. IDK. I was traditionally focused on Racing early in my RC days. This technique is the norm at the serious track level races these days. And translates well to any RC rig IMHO.

Its just a sin to leave this much air in your diff oil, thinking you are filled and ready to close it up!

View attachment 168517

Some just view these rigs as toys. That kid last summer pulled out my competitive edge I thought I had put away. I'm in the "tweaking my 4x4s mode" all over again. A friend asked me why I was bothering with the carbon fiber mods if I felt I already built a great RC Lot Warrior. Like with my trucks, no matter how perfect you make it, you always have ideas to try and make it even better than perfect. Expensive, yes. But believe me, this is pennies compared to how I used to be.

 

[SrC]

For sure, it will fine tune. The tech at my LHS says the average RCer does not need this. Usually it's only Pros or SERIOUS RC folks that own them. And once familiar with one and your rc, it's a diagnostic tool too. The SkyRC model would be just over $200 with taxes. And on backorder. Amazon sellers have some but are charging premium. He's offered to do mine for me but said it's better to own one myself because once you get readings, you start tweaking and that process can take days to weeks perfecting.

Yea, I paid like $100. and change several years ago for the Cross weight scale. And back then was hard to find. ON B/O. But you need one near your bench. Its like constantly borrowing a hex driver all the time. Because you don't have one yourself. But always need it at your bench. And yes Scaling and dialing your rig can take days. There is a slight learning curve. Because you are looking at your rig from a completely different perspective with detailed weight measuements. F-R . Left -Rt, and Cross ways. And there are many ways on the chassis to adjust this balance.
Cross balancing is probably the hardest part but yields the best result. Done right will make you rig track straight every time. On-road stuff.

 

[Greengaunja]

Agreed. I’m a former racer as well, all sorts of Motorsport, and I’m very well versed in how much consistency and technique translates into speed. I guess I’m a “basher” now? I still pay just as much attention to my setups and maintenance. Even bashing, when you know how your ride is going to respond in a given situation, you can go bigger, faster, just push the envelope without worrying about your differential exploding due to lazy, uninformed, inconsistent setups and rebuilds. All those little things matter, big time. Either the machines feel “right” or they feel “wrong”.

I know a lot of people who don’t let their diffs even sit for 10 min…

All these points you both made were huge factors in offroading too. Made a difference between getting bogged down or "floating" across creeks, bogs, deep snow etc..

 

[SrC]

Scales helped even with my Crawlers. Yeah. I found out the box, my Axial crawlers were almost perfect, with lipo in place and body on. FWIW.

>>> Remember, weigh the rig with body on and lipo in place. Even dangling lipo leads and motor wires on the chassis will alter a cross weight reading and its percentage of balance. Always weigh with complete running weight as if ready to drive it. You may know this already. Using different size/weight lipos is another variable to consider. The scale is that precise. Also I find that using an external lipo/ power source with the scale is better than using the AA batteries.
Food for thought. With AA's the scale will time out and shut off too frequently. Becomes a nuisance. Been there. Scales MUST be on a very Flat/ level surface that is firm. Not a loose legged table.

 

[slick2500]

I need to stop reading threads like this, they keep making me want to buy one of these beasts.
But lot's of good info in here.

 

[Greengaunja]

I am a gear head and recently took control of a 59 Corvette project myself. My friend was getting the run around everywhere else. I took over the project. Untouched , now its a runner with little effort. Was a PA barn find 18 years ago ($6k) and my friend placed it in a heated garage since then. We relate. Was also a Toyota Tech, Toyota trained for a Toy Dealer for 8 years, out of college while struggling to get into another field. We are on the same page for sure.
Agree there are many ways something can be done and it may be good enough for most .... But there is only one correct way. Details matter to some.

The Corvette, legendary..only muscle car I liked better was the Trans Am(thanks to Burt Reynolds but I preferred '80 and older). It's actually what I plan for the Senton's next stage:

Offset hubs takes care of width and bumpers got the length. So only issue is changing front tower.

 

[Wade Wilson]

All these points you both made were huge factors in offroading too. Made a difference between getting bogged down or "floating" across creeks, bogs, deep snow etc..

So so so true! The difference between the machine fighting the terrain or dancing over it…

The Corvette, legendary..only muscle car I liked better was the Trans Am(thanks to Burt Reynolds but I preferred '80 and older). It's actually what I plan for the Senton's next stage:
View attachment 168536View attachment 168537View attachment 168538

Offset hubs takes care of width and bumpers got the length. So only issue is changing front tower.

Get that wing so its mounted to the chassis…
Okay gents, I need to get to wrenching and switch out the chassis and front bulkhead on the Xmaxx. Sailed over a transition on a jump, and landed flat from about 20-25’ up, slightly nose down, and cracked the chassis, and the front bulkhead…but it was EPIC!!!

 

[slick2500]

I am a gear head and recently took control of a 59 Corvette project myself. My friend was getting the run around everywhere else. I took over the project. Untouched , now its a runner with little effort. Was a PA barn find 18 years ago ($6k) and my friend placed it in a heated garage since then. We relate. Was also a Toyota Tech, Toyota trained for a Toy Dealer for 8 years, out of college while struggling to get into another field. We are on the same page for sure.
Agree there are many ways something can be done and it may be good enough for most .... But there is only one correct way. Details matter to some.

My favorite Vette is still the 63 split window coupe. I even had a toy grade 63 Corvette rc car when I was younger, I can't remember who made or what ever happened to it but I wish I still had it. When I had my onroad car I looked for a long time to find a 63 body for it, I only found a couple but they were for a different wheelbase car