TrickTurner
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How to hit 100mph
Kraton How to hit 100mph
- Thread starter TrickTurner
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itsachevy
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Spend alot of money and time. Buy a roller for spare parts. New tires esc motor. Im tryin to get there my self
Deceptikon
Member
In a Kraton?
If you want to hit 100mphr your basically going to have to strip your Kraton down to bare chassis and build a very custom monster speed demon.....
Firstly, let me clear up any misconceptions and "friend of a friend" stories about all the electrical problems by EVERY "blx" owner.
Colloquially, it has been a long discussion as to why the same esc's that come RTR in the Kraton, Typhon and Senton poop themselves VERY quickly in the Kraton and the Senton, yet the Typhon and Talion seem to prosper.
Simple answer: LOAD
The Kraton weighs more than the Typhon as does the Senton. Two very nice looking vehicles by Arrma but very very bulky indeed. Pro's & Con's?
Pro: they can handle a hard landing, and with a battery and the amount of tread that are on the Kraton and Senton wheels, grip is obtained very easily and the sheer weight of the vehicles keep them planted firmly to the terrain.
Con: The diff ratio and lack of slip in the centre, in addition to the amp draw needed to move these bohemeths, load the motor up very quickly, generating heat which travels like lightning to your blx esc. Thus the minuscule capacitor packs that are under the plastic housing of the esc's, aren't sufficient to handle such load
Recommendation?
Upgrade cables from the standard to 8awg silicone wire, add another 4 inches in length from the esc to the positive and negative battery connectors, and if running a series, to the series connectors too.
Discard the cheap "fake Dean's" connectors and add REAL 'gold plated xt60' Dean's connectors (the ones with the grips) or my personal choice 4mm bullet connectors.
WARNING doing so will straight away void your warranty and Arrma shall not value their '2 year warranty' as under their terms and conditions the esc's must not show visible signs of wear, of show proof the esc's have been opened or tampered with/altered in anyway.
If choosing to do this, it might be a good idea to also invest in a "castle cap pack" to add to the new wiring, and possibly an external b.e.c. (Providing you know exactly how to install them properly) this should see you getting the most out of your blx esc's.
A lot of people have complained about their steering servos shitting themselves too, and I have found when cranking the steering all the way to the right and holding it there, the black wire gets dragged across the brass gear and shorts it out. You can pick up generic 15kg waterproof digital steering servos on eBay, bang good, or aliexpress for around about $25! And will last longer and perform better and more responsibly than the standard one provided RTR.
Solution!
Blx out hobbywing quicrun in!
The hobbywing quicrun 150a esc was built with larger lower esr caps to push big 1:8-1:5 scale cars without any dramas. Thought the "a" sounds significantly lower then the blx range (30 less) I can guarantee that means nothing when it comes to get your Kraton pissing along!
The motor your Kraton comes with are bulletproof! Just keep them lol by adding a good quality motor fan I.e. Hobbywing or Castle.
I would recommend also changing the 3.5mm motor connectors to 5mm gold plated connectors so heat disperses better and there are no bottlenecks in your power transfer.
Running an external b.e.c. Is always. Good idea if your going to push your vehicle way beyond manufacturers specifications, a general good reliable one is the hobbywing 25v u can pick up on eBay for $5 and rather than alter your futaba connector from the esc, slap an extension cable on then remove the red wire from the extension connector.
Next, if you want to get your Kraton up there into triple digits, your going to have to sacrifice tyre width for example the talion with 'Desert boots'
Notice how the Talion don't blow up but is a Kraton under the body? Same as the Typhon? Because the wheels are thinner and they have 'sprigs' not deep treads, the esc and motor don't have to work as hard and can keep doing what they are ment to do.
If you wanna reach 100mphr on road? Buy GRP tyres.
If you wanna reach 100mphr off-road? Buy pro-line 'badlands'
Now 'cut the fat'
Weight reduction
Seems hard as the Kraton is strategically built to look like all that meat is needed to handle its 'staunchness'. FACT: you can reduce the kraton weight by a full kilogram (2.2lbs) by snapping up the front and rear carbon fibre shock towers made in Germany sold on eBay for about $45 a pop, while your at it, flog that top steering plate off too and put the carbon fibre in its place.
If your going for a controlled on road speed run for your record, you can also shed the centre rollcage and if your chipping away at 100mphr but just biting the ankles, flog the spoiler off too, it's just creating downforce. But make sure you have the lil part that holds the rear chassis stiffener to shock tower, the two plastic chunks that connect to the spoiler? Your gonna need them to secure stiffness in your chassis......
The side rails that come stock? Discard them for your speed run. Maybe even the battery tray. Your battery can be held in with double Velcro straps or double sided tape.
Next dump the diff oil.
Personal recommendation: 50,000 in the middle 10,000 front, 10,000 rear, with a smear of hudy graphite grease across all 3 insides...... This will create equal 4wd power transfer and lock up the wheels better.
Don't forget to tighten your grub screw in the centre diff for less slip!
Hudy graphite grease and 'assosciated' diff oil will save you weight guaranteed!
Gearing
The stock 50t steel centre spur is incredibly strong and shouldn't need maintenance, just regular checks and cleaning. But if you wanna hit 100mphr, the RTR stock 12t or upgraded (Arrma provided) 14t 'speed gearing' mod1 pinions should be forgotten about. Your going to need to get the pitch right first, and then I suggest reaching for a motor pinion in the 26-29t region. But be warned! This very high gearing needs adequate heat dissipation and should not be attempted on the first go, a progression of tooth increase is drastically recommended before attempting gearing this high I.e. 3:1
Personal preference? Robinson Racing pinions or Novak are well worth the money....... castle is another option....
Ball bearings.
If you got the cash to splurge I recommend hitting up Acer bearings for a custom ceramic bearing kit which should always be maintained and checked between runs and always kept oiled with Teflon race bearing oil for maximum performance. The ever popular "Fast Eddy Bearing Kit" is a good upgrade from the standard but is generally reserved for bashing as they have rubber seals to keep dirt out, but if you want speed Acer is the way to go!
Ride travel
A GOOD decision would be to wind your shocks right out, replace the springs. The Kraton comes with 76uf damper rate, you want the upgraded 83uf from Team Durango. You should also drain the stock fluid out and put in something like 1000wt front and rear to keep your Kraton pressed to the Tarmac.
Battery choice.
There are so many ways and measurements, graphs, recommendations and bullshit that gets thrown around about Lipo choice. There are also personal preferences when it comes to running a singular battery or a series connector.
On paper and using sophisticated mathematical equations a single battery is the way to go. But it all depends on how the speed run goes on the day I reckon!
If your pedantic like me too? I would even consider attempting your speed run at midday when the air is at its densest, and stay away from up or downhill as each has Pro's and cons.
If your going to go chooses single battery? MAXAMPS 5450mah 22.2v 150c race pack with 6.5mm polarised castle connectors which can handle 300a! Hit up Clint Preston for the battery today!
If your going to run a series? I.e. 2x 11.1v lipos? Trinity revtech 100c 6000mah shall suffice!
Both are more then worth the money.......
I challenge ANYONE to follow this upgrade path and see the numbers tumble before your eyes!
Best of luck! And don't forget to post your videos!
If you want to hit 100mphr your basically going to have to strip your Kraton down to bare chassis and build a very custom monster speed demon.....
Firstly, let me clear up any misconceptions and "friend of a friend" stories about all the electrical problems by EVERY "blx" owner.
Colloquially, it has been a long discussion as to why the same esc's that come RTR in the Kraton, Typhon and Senton poop themselves VERY quickly in the Kraton and the Senton, yet the Typhon and Talion seem to prosper.
Simple answer: LOAD
The Kraton weighs more than the Typhon as does the Senton. Two very nice looking vehicles by Arrma but very very bulky indeed. Pro's & Con's?
Pro: they can handle a hard landing, and with a battery and the amount of tread that are on the Kraton and Senton wheels, grip is obtained very easily and the sheer weight of the vehicles keep them planted firmly to the terrain.
Con: The diff ratio and lack of slip in the centre, in addition to the amp draw needed to move these bohemeths, load the motor up very quickly, generating heat which travels like lightning to your blx esc. Thus the minuscule capacitor packs that are under the plastic housing of the esc's, aren't sufficient to handle such load
Recommendation?
Upgrade cables from the standard to 8awg silicone wire, add another 4 inches in length from the esc to the positive and negative battery connectors, and if running a series, to the series connectors too.
Discard the cheap "fake Dean's" connectors and add REAL 'gold plated xt60' Dean's connectors (the ones with the grips) or my personal choice 4mm bullet connectors.
WARNING doing so will straight away void your warranty and Arrma shall not value their '2 year warranty' as under their terms and conditions the esc's must not show visible signs of wear, of show proof the esc's have been opened or tampered with/altered in anyway.
If choosing to do this, it might be a good idea to also invest in a "castle cap pack" to add to the new wiring, and possibly an external b.e.c. (Providing you know exactly how to install them properly) this should see you getting the most out of your blx esc's.
A lot of people have complained about their steering servos shitting themselves too, and I have found when cranking the steering all the way to the right and holding it there, the black wire gets dragged across the brass gear and shorts it out. You can pick up generic 15kg waterproof digital steering servos on eBay, bang good, or aliexpress for around about $25! And will last longer and perform better and more responsibly than the standard one provided RTR.
Solution!
Blx out hobbywing quicrun in!
The hobbywing quicrun 150a esc was built with larger lower esr caps to push big 1:8-1:5 scale cars without any dramas. Thought the "a" sounds significantly lower then the blx range (30 less) I can guarantee that means nothing when it comes to get your Kraton pissing along!
The motor your Kraton comes with are bulletproof! Just keep them lol by adding a good quality motor fan I.e. Hobbywing or Castle.
I would recommend also changing the 3.5mm motor connectors to 5mm gold plated connectors so heat disperses better and there are no bottlenecks in your power transfer.
Running an external b.e.c. Is always. Good idea if your going to push your vehicle way beyond manufacturers specifications, a general good reliable one is the hobbywing 25v u can pick up on eBay for $5 and rather than alter your futaba connector from the esc, slap an extension cable on then remove the red wire from the extension connector.
Next, if you want to get your Kraton up there into triple digits, your going to have to sacrifice tyre width for example the talion with 'Desert boots'
Notice how the Talion don't blow up but is a Kraton under the body? Same as the Typhon? Because the wheels are thinner and they have 'sprigs' not deep treads, the esc and motor don't have to work as hard and can keep doing what they are ment to do.
If you wanna reach 100mphr on road? Buy GRP tyres.
If you wanna reach 100mphr off-road? Buy pro-line 'badlands'
Now 'cut the fat'
Weight reduction
Seems hard as the Kraton is strategically built to look like all that meat is needed to handle its 'staunchness'. FACT: you can reduce the kraton weight by a full kilogram (2.2lbs) by snapping up the front and rear carbon fibre shock towers made in Germany sold on eBay for about $45 a pop, while your at it, flog that top steering plate off too and put the carbon fibre in its place.
If your going for a controlled on road speed run for your record, you can also shed the centre rollcage and if your chipping away at 100mphr but just biting the ankles, flog the spoiler off too, it's just creating downforce. But make sure you have the lil part that holds the rear chassis stiffener to shock tower, the two plastic chunks that connect to the spoiler? Your gonna need them to secure stiffness in your chassis......
The side rails that come stock? Discard them for your speed run. Maybe even the battery tray. Your battery can be held in with double Velcro straps or double sided tape.
Next dump the diff oil.
Personal recommendation: 50,000 in the middle 10,000 front, 10,000 rear, with a smear of hudy graphite grease across all 3 insides...... This will create equal 4wd power transfer and lock up the wheels better.
Don't forget to tighten your grub screw in the centre diff for less slip!
Hudy graphite grease and 'assosciated' diff oil will save you weight guaranteed!
Gearing
The stock 50t steel centre spur is incredibly strong and shouldn't need maintenance, just regular checks and cleaning. But if you wanna hit 100mphr, the RTR stock 12t or upgraded (Arrma provided) 14t 'speed gearing' mod1 pinions should be forgotten about. Your going to need to get the pitch right first, and then I suggest reaching for a motor pinion in the 26-29t region. But be warned! This very high gearing needs adequate heat dissipation and should not be attempted on the first go, a progression of tooth increase is drastically recommended before attempting gearing this high I.e. 3:1
Personal preference? Robinson Racing pinions or Novak are well worth the money....... castle is another option....
Ball bearings.
If you got the cash to splurge I recommend hitting up Acer bearings for a custom ceramic bearing kit which should always be maintained and checked between runs and always kept oiled with Teflon race bearing oil for maximum performance. The ever popular "Fast Eddy Bearing Kit" is a good upgrade from the standard but is generally reserved for bashing as they have rubber seals to keep dirt out, but if you want speed Acer is the way to go!
Ride travel
A GOOD decision would be to wind your shocks right out, replace the springs. The Kraton comes with 76uf damper rate, you want the upgraded 83uf from Team Durango. You should also drain the stock fluid out and put in something like 1000wt front and rear to keep your Kraton pressed to the Tarmac.
Battery choice.
There are so many ways and measurements, graphs, recommendations and bullshit that gets thrown around about Lipo choice. There are also personal preferences when it comes to running a singular battery or a series connector.
On paper and using sophisticated mathematical equations a single battery is the way to go. But it all depends on how the speed run goes on the day I reckon!
If your pedantic like me too? I would even consider attempting your speed run at midday when the air is at its densest, and stay away from up or downhill as each has Pro's and cons.
If your going to go chooses single battery? MAXAMPS 5450mah 22.2v 150c race pack with 6.5mm polarised castle connectors which can handle 300a! Hit up Clint Preston for the battery today!
If your going to run a series? I.e. 2x 11.1v lipos? Trinity revtech 100c 6000mah shall suffice!
Both are more then worth the money.......
I challenge ANYONE to follow this upgrade path and see the numbers tumble before your eyes!
Best of luck! And don't forget to post your videos!
Attachments
don't think so...
Had to send in my ESC a week ago. I asked support if i can leave on the green castle connector which i am using.
answer was like (translated):
just send it in as it is. if we gonna replace the ESC we solder it to the new one, or at least we send it back to you.
1kg? 20% of the original weight? seems a bit optimistic to me... have you some weights for the individual parts?
Deceptikon
Member
I've done my upgrades, research, modifications, weight reductions, removal of parts to gain an advantage in speed and durability with proof, videos, data sheets all submitted to Arrma/Team Durango. If you want to etch closer to hitting 100mphr follow my "guidelines". There are more unnecessary things on the car that can be shed/modified to drop 1kg. That means in tare weight or aggragate. I.e. Downforce provided by the wing, then using this wonderful thing called mathematics, calculated how much weight has actually been shed at high speed to shave those numbers closer to 100mphr.
This was merely a guide based on my findings, research and experience. Something you lack as to why you sought to take issue with my guide. Until you actually do it yourself, your comments lack any foundation for any negative feedback and anyone who follows my guide will laugh at your below satisfactory attack on my experience. Enjoy your uphill struggle.
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Dustin Mustangs
Active Member
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Lots of lol in this thread.
@Deceptikon, so part of the 2.2 lbs you saved in weight was downforce? That seems a bit deceptive, no pun intended. Either way, I would love to see your wonderful calculations for that if you are willing to share.
@Deceptikon, so part of the 2.2 lbs you saved in weight was downforce? That seems a bit deceptive, no pun intended. Either way, I would love to see your wonderful calculations for that if you are willing to share.
Deceptikon
Member
It's all archived now. But if you consider yourself well versed in equations, velocity, diagnostics of pressure I will be happy to dig it all up again.
Dustin Mustangs
Active Member
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Yes, please do. I should have no problem following along and will likely enjoy doing so. I am especially interested to see how you evaluate downforce in terms of weight reduction and apply that towards a goal of increasing top speed.
I'm sure the rest of your weight reduction numbers will be of value here as well so it would be great if you could post those here too.
Shoot man, this sounds like a pretty major effort you have put forward, why not start a build thread and share the whole lot of it? People would gobble that up!
I'm sure the rest of your weight reduction numbers will be of value here as well so it would be great if you could post those here too.
Shoot man, this sounds like a pretty major effort you have put forward, why not start a build thread and share the whole lot of it? People would gobble that up!
