Outcast Hunt for better backflips

[jamesbea]

I have a stock electronic/tire setup Outcast currently running a 14T pinion on punch 7 with a 6S battery. In order for me to get more rotation for backflips, is my next step to up my pinion gear? I have a 17T laying around that I could use.

Trying to figure out the best steps to take without changing my electronics.

 

[Rcbasher123]

Yeah gearing up will give you more rotation just check temps

 

[SrC]

16T or 17T pinion will be ok. Try it out.
Just watch your temps with a temp gun in hand. The larger the pinion, the hotter electrics will become. Outside Ambient air temps will determine from there.
You said you are all stock. Have you increased your Diff oil weights??
I would highly suggest you use 60K front / 500k center /30k rear. This will make the rig liven up, encountering less Differential power bleeding from the Rear wheels when attempting Backflips.
I don't dial my rig specifically to do this. But if that is what motivates you. Go for it.

 

[Crunchy Gears]

I have a stock electronic/tire setup Outcast currently running a 14T pinion on punch 7 with a 6S battery. In order for me to get more rotation for backflips, is my next step to up my pinion gear? I have a 17T laying around that I could use.

Trying to figure out the best steps to take without changing my electronics.

Next step is max punch baby!

 

[SrC]

If the diff oils are not optimum, Max punch will just smoke the diffs.
Stock oils are just too thin.

 

[Crunchy Gears]

If the diff oils are not optimum, Max punch will just smoke the diffs.
Stock oils are just too thin.

Optimum is relative to driving style and surface/tire grip.

It's been my experience so far that long as you're properly shimmed and barring driver error, v5 diffs take whatever the stock power system can give it in the context of stunt bashing. ~30-40 packs in still on original diffs and stock weights. I have 60/300/30 ready to go but haven't had the need been sitting in my basement for 2 months now.

Land with a handful of throttle and your diffs are toast regardless of punch or power. And if your thing is tearing full throttle up and down a field,l a whole pack then I agree completely you'll smoke your center diff on stock oil and probably your motor too

Long story short max punch been good to me for what I do:

I'm gonna clear that pole this summer

OP this is 14t on max punch btw
Whether you gear up or up your punch (or both) it's gonna put more strain on the drivetrain. So make sure diff game is on point

 

[SrC]

^^^
Agree that diff weights will always be subjective.
The consensus here is stock oils are just too thin for bashing. Smoking the center diff first most of the time. First to go. Conversely, for Track running on slower confined technical tracks, thinner oils are best.
You will need much less Punch with thicker diff oil all around.
Once you UP you diff oils let us know what you think.
Find it very hard to believe you have 40 packs in on the stock diff oils. I can see getting that mileage with thicker oils.
They are probably borderline in need of a refresh if the gears are still in good shape with 40 packs in. Your Oil is probably Black with gear metal wear at this point. It becomes like Tar. Guaranteed. 15-20 packs and the diffs are due for a rebuild most of the time. (in the manual) Preventative maintenance goes a long way. Yet many just drive till they break. Gets costly this way. I've probably rebuilt 75+ diffs in the past 6-7 years across 8 Arrma 6s rigs here.
But good Driver experience will dictate how long the diffs will last. Proper shimming of the Fr and Rr diffs is always paramount and assumed.
Seems you are a good driver.

 

[Adiabatic]

It's surprising to me that you're having trouble with backflipping a short wheelbase car like the Outcast. Even with a completely stock 6s setup I have seen these things do double/triple flips off a small ramp or dirt mound. What does your launch look like? Ideally you want something with a smooth curvature and a launch angle of about 45° to get a high launch velocity and maximum airtime (ignoring drag effects, which you can probably safely do at R/C speeds).

And if your thing is tearing full throttle up and down a field,l a whole pack then I agree completely you'll smoke your center diff on stock oil and probably your motor too

I think this is why I'm so perplexed by the common setup recommendations around here. Thick oils, a million gigantic fans, etc.. Then I see people claim that 5000mAh batteries only last 10 minutes and watch the way they drive in videos and it becomes obvious that I have a very different idea of what bashing is, including the controversial belief that the throttle trigger is not in fact a two position on-off switch.

Find it very hard to believe you have 40 packs in on the stock diff oils. I can see getting that mileage with thicker oils.

I have more than that on my current set of diffs with 20k/100k/10k F/C/R non-LSD. Same with the stock Spektrum steering servo. Recently cleaned and changed the oils and all parts with the exception of the spider gear shims in the centre diff were in good to acceptable condition. Shims were borderline and I'll probably be swapping them out for Mugen shims during my fall rebuild. Edit: I may have misinterpreted what you meant. I change the oils about every 20-30 packs, but the parts are original. I suppose you're referring to getting 40 packs out of a single oil change, in which case I agree it would be difficult to do so without running on nasty oil for a good part of the cycle.

I'm a former track driver with a bashing style heavily influenced by this experience though. I use throttle conservatively to spare battery/fuel, but like having 6s power on tap when it's needed. I like a smooth rather than punchy launch with excess power unloading to keep the rear steady. I turn mostly at low speed and off-power and don't want the car to drift too much. I err on the side of driveline and steering protection vs responsiveness and would rather have components like diffs and the servo saver do their job and reduce load on vulnerable parts to make breakage less likely than stiffen them up and reduce their function.

I also don't believe there is any real consensus that the stock oils are too thin and that I'm a rare dissenter. For one, if you read the threads on this topic here it becomes obvious that thickening the diffs is a trend that largely spreads memetically and not as a result of rigorous consideration of individual needs. I bet if you took a poll it would be quite split among the most knowledgeable members here and leaning toward thinner oils within the broader technical R/C community.

But yeah... you can definitely say that a lot of the variance in advice on R/C forums is attributable to variance in driving styles. Or as you say: We all R/C differently.

 

[Moirae]

It's surprising to me that you're having trouble with backflipping a short wheelbase car like the Outcast. Even with a completely stock 6s setup I have seen these things do double/triple flips off a small ramp or dirt mound. What does your launch look like? Ideally you want something with a smooth curvature and a launch angle of about 45° to get a high launch velocity and maximum airtime (ignoring drag effects, which you can probably safely do at R/C speeds).



I think this is why I'm so perplexed by the common setup recommendations around here. Thick oils, a million gigantic fans, etc.. Then I see people claim that 5000mAh batteries only last 10 minutes and watch the way they drive in videos and it becomes obvious that I have a very different idea of what bashing is, including the controversial belief that the throttle trigger is not in fact a two position on-off switch.



I have more than that on my current set of diffs with 20k/100k/10k F/C/R non-LSD. Same with the stock Spektrum steering servo. Recently cleaned and changed the oils and all parts with the exception of the spider gear shims in the centre diff were in good to acceptable condition. Shims were borderline and I'll probably be swapping them out for Mugen shims during my fall rebuild.

I'm a former track driver with a bashing style heavily influenced by this experience though. I use throttle conservatively to spare battery/fuel, but like having 6s power on tap when it's needed. I like a smooth rather than punchy launch with excess power unloading to keep the rear steady. I turn mostly at low speed and off-power and don't want the car to drift too much. I err on the side of driveline and steering protection vs responsiveness and would rather have components like diffs and the servo saver do their job and reduce load on vulnerable parts to make breakage less likely than stiffen them up and reduce their function.

I also don't believe there is any real consensus that the stock oils are too thin and that I'm a rare dissenter. For one, if you read the threads on this topic here it becomes obvious that thickening the diffs is a trend that largely spreads memetically and not as a result of rigorous consideration of individual needs. I bet if you took a poll it would be quite split among the most knowledgeable members here and leaning toward thinner oils within the broader technical R/C community.

But yeah... you can definitely say that a lot of the variance in advice on R/C forums is attributable to variance in driving styles. Or as you say: We all R/C differently.

I think MANY people here use much thicker fluid in the center diff. 300-500k is very common around here. It's also one of the best things I've done to my rigs that I learned from this site. 500k in the center helps reduce front tire ballooning. I think if you took a poll, anyone who's been on this forum for any decent amount of time will not be running stock diff weight.

 

[Crunchy Gears]

^^^
Agree that diff weights will always be subjective.
The consensus here is stock oils are just too thin for bashing. Smoking the center diff first most of the time. First to go. Conversely, for Track running on slower confined technical tracks, thinner oils are best.
You will need much less Punch with thicker diff oil all around.
Once you UP you diff oils let us know what you think.
Find it very hard to believe you have 40 packs in on the stock diff oils. I can see getting that mileage with thicker oils.
They are probably borderline in need of a refresh if the gears are still in good shape with 40 packs in. Your Oil is probably Black with gear metal wear at this point. It becomes like Tar. Guaranteed. 15-20 packs and the diffs are due for a rebuild most of the time. (in the manual) Preventative maintenance goes a long way. Yet many just drive till they break. Gets costly this way. I've probably rebuilt 75+ diffs in the past 6-7 years across 8 Arrma 6s rigs here.
But good Driver experience will dictate how long the diffs will last. Proper shimming of the Fr and Rr diffs is always paramount and assumed.
Seems you are a good driver.

Not 100% on packs ran hence the "~" but 5-10 packs a week every week since purchase end of March during that Arrma Sale Horizon had so... Add the 2 carry the 1 math is hard

Got 60/300/30 ready to go. I got a titanium skid plate from Scorched for pavement sparkage
Cleaning and refilling the diffs is on my do list when I do the install since she'll be half apart anyway. Though now that I have it I don't know how I feel about drilling into my pretty m2c Speed Chassis..we'll see but you're 100% right they're due for some TLC soon.

I wouldn't go THAT FAR on being a good driver and all that..if you've seen my Noto build thread lately you might be singing a different tune.

I'm decent at jumping. Depth perception..not so much

 

[Adiabatic]

I think if you took a poll, anyone who's been on this forum for any decent amount of time will not be running stock diff weight.

I think you're close to right but you may notice how I referred specifically to the poll responses of the most knowledgeable members, which is a distinct group without necessarily much correlation with having spent a lot of time on this forum.

In your case, if I recall correctly you're running your cars with much greater than stock power which makes thick oil much more sensible. On stock power the stock weights are close to optimal for a controlled driving style. With more power and a heavy trigger finger you're likely to have issues like excessive ballooning and wheelspin caused by diff unloading on light oils.

 

[SrC]

@Crunchy Gears , You have good reaction time at the wheel.
I got old and lost my touch. Am more conservative now. But Big air does grab me sometimes.
I believe you about pack runs. After a while you average run times.
I always apply 15 min for each run (pack), and average my use to the hours of run time. I found this to be best to schedule maintenance intervals. I break diffs way less now. In fact my Mojave diffs are well over due, ( but used thick oils out the box). Just that my Mojave diffs feel like brand new. If anything the Diff BB's are probably close to toast. The BB's alone are a good enough reason to do diff maintenance intervals regularly.
Hate to brick a diff because of inexpensive worn out BB's. I find the Center Diff BB's to wear out the fastest.

 

[Adiabatic]

Hate to brick a diff because of inexpensive worn out BB's.

Yeah that's the main reason I tear into mine regularly. The type of dirt/sand I run in has always killed bearings in all my cars quickly no matter how I drive. It's really annoying but part of the game.

 

[SrC]

Yeah, the BB's will ruin a wet dream and cause other part failures in the process. Causing melted Diff cases and melted hubs, ruin/wear out diff output and input cups and input gears etc. Melted bulkheads at the input gear. Been there. Failed BB's can really ruin and cost $$ with other related parts.
Why I ended up being Anal with BB's in general.
Many just replace with new here and there. I Use an Ultrasonic bath etc.
I go the extra mile and lube new BB's myself. Leaving nothing to chance. I get much more mileage out of them. But they will all brick at some point. Its just catching them in time before they do. I usually do one cleaning and re-lube them before I have to toss them.
To some not worth all that effort, I concede.

 

[Adiabatic]

If I could get fast and efficient at cleaning and re-lubing them I would probably do that, but time is limited and $30/season/car for new replacements is cheap enough that I haven't bothered to develop this skill. I do have an ultrasonic cleaner and mountains of bearing grease though so maybe someday.