Katar tire replacement (not getting on with the backflips)

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stuartd

Active Member
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Location
Scotland, UK.
Arrma RC's
  1. Notorious
  2. Talion
  3. Typhon 6s
I picked up a set of backflips to use as an off road tyre to replace the worn out stock Katars on my Talion v3. I really wasn't prepared for how big a difference they'd make to the way the car handled when I took it back onto the grass. With the stock Katars fitted I used to pull the throttle right back and the Talion would raise a little at the front and kinda sink back at the rear and just zoom away whether on grass or on the road, no wheelies just pretty well planted speed. Now running on grass with the Backflips on it wheelies and flips over, there are traction rolls when turning at speed and nose flips when stopping sharply as well, lol.
I have a set of Sweep Road Crushers coming to use on road but honestly think I'm going to need to look for something else to run with off road. Yeah, the wheelies are kinda fun but I preferred (as did my son, he's taking a while to adjust to not pulling the trigger as hard) being able to pull the trigger right back without worrying about the car ending up on its' back. We had to put it back on its' wheels more times today than in the 3 or 4 times we had it on the grass with the Katars.
I'm in the UK so Katar stock seems to be non existent, is there another off road tyre that will exhibit similar handling to the Katars ?
 
Shockwaves are pretty good, I use them on my kraton for grass and gravel. I don't know how they compare to the Katars. I haven't used those.
 
I picked up a set of backflips to use as an off road tyre to replace the worn out stock Katars on my Talion v3. I really wasn't prepared for how big a difference they'd make to the way the car handled when I took it back onto the grass. With the stock Katars fitted I used to pull the throttle right back and the Talion would raise a little at the front and kinda sink back at the rear and just zoom away whether on grass or on the road, no wheelies just pretty well planted speed. Now running on grass with the Backflips on it wheelies and flips over, there are traction rolls when turning at speed and nose flips when stopping sharply as well, lol.
I have a set of Sweep Road Crushers coming to use on road but honestly think I'm going to need to look for something else to run with off road. Yeah, the wheelies are kinda fun but I preferred (as did my son, he's taking a while to adjust to not pulling the trigger as hard) being able to pull the trigger right back without worrying about the car ending up on its' back. We had to put it back on its' wheels more times today than in the 3 or 4 times we had it on the grass with the Katars.
I'm in the UK so Katar stock seems to be non existent, is there another off road tyre that will exhibit similar handling to the Katars ?
Send be your backflips!!
 
I picked up a set of backflips to use as an off road tyre to replace the worn out stock Katars on my Talion v3. I really wasn't prepared for how big a difference they'd make to the way the car handled when I took it back onto the grass. With the stock Katars fitted I used to pull the throttle right back and the Talion would raise a little at the front and kinda sink back at the rear and just zoom away whether on grass or on the road, no wheelies just pretty well planted speed. Now running on grass with the Backflips on it wheelies and flips over, there are traction rolls when turning at speed and nose flips when stopping sharply as well, lol.
I have a set of Sweep Road Crushers coming to use on road but honestly think I'm going to need to look for something else to run with off road. Yeah, the wheelies are kinda fun but I preferred (as did my son, he's taking a while to adjust to not pulling the trigger as hard) being able to pull the trigger right back without worrying about the car ending up on its' back. We had to put it back on its' wheels more times today than in the 3 or 4 times we had it on the grass with the Katars.
I'm in the UK so Katar stock seems to be non existent, is there another off road tyre that will exhibit similar handling to the Katars ?

Before you give up on the Backflips, What are your current suspension settings ?

Ride height
Droop F & R (measured at the chassis not the shocks)
F & R camber
Rear camber link mounting position (inner and outer)
 
Everything is at the stock setting other than ride height which I raised slightly at the front and rear to give more ground clearance when running the Katars.

Ride height at the front is around 7.5cm at the centre. I think the droop (new term to me) is around 1.2cm at the front (difference between car sitting on wheels and then gently lifting body of car until tyres just touch the floor).

At the rear ride height is around 7.2cm at the centre with a droop of 0.9cm.

Camber and toe setup hasn't been altered from stock.
There is a little negative camber with toe in at the rear.
Minimal camber with toe out at the front.

I don't know about the rear camber link position, haven't changed it from stock.
 
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Any truggy tire with small pins will be forgining and predictable on grass, dirt etc. without being overly aggressive. Also work pretty good on hard surfaces as long as they are not to soft of a compound for wear reasons.
 
First i would suggest to lower the ride height. The Talion is pretty sensitive to ride height adjustments, as the suspension setup is really progressive due to the small shock towers and the shocks angles, meaning that it's really soft at the start of the travel, and getting really hard at the end. By raising the ride height, you're now basically riding the soft side of the suspension, causing the body roll (front lifting when you accelerate etc..).

So there's a good chance that the back/front flips will be avoided if you'll lower the ride height.
 
I lowered the ride height at both front and rear and went back out earlier this afternoon. Definite improvement, still pulls wheelies but more stable than last time. There's still scope (the adjustment ring on each of the shock absorbers can still move up by just under 1cm) to lower it a bit more so I'll drop the car a little further and see how that goes.
 
Everything is at the stock setting other than ride height which I raised slightly at the front and rear to give more ground clearance when running the Katars.

Ride height at the front is around 7.5cm at the centre. I think the droop (new term to me) is around 1.2cm at the front (difference between car sitting on wheels and then gently lifting body of car until tyres just touch the floor).

At the rear ride height is around 7.2cm at the centre with a droop of 0.9cm.

Camber and toe setup hasn't been altered from stock.
There is a little negative camber with toe in at the rear.
Minimal camber with toe out at the front.

I don't know about the rear camber link position, haven't changed it from stock.

Sounds like the ride height is too high. In the neighborhood of 55mm (measured to the bottom of the chassis) with Backflips should be close. The lower arms should be parallel to the ground. By raising the ride height you raised the CG. This makes it more prone to wheelie and roll. The tires are also taller which adds even more. When you lower the ride height you will find that the droop will increase (as this measurement is the difference between the ride height at ride height and the ride height at full suspension drop) Like you measured.
Get the ride height back where it belongs. If it still rolls give it a little more negative camber in the rear (it will help loosen it up)
From there you can try reducing the amount of droop front and rear. If you aren't doing big air or running in really rough conditions you don't need a lot of droop.
 
The stock ride height with the Katar's is 45mm, so you've added 30mm, which is alot.

The backflips are bigger than the Katars, so with them you should aim for a ride height of 58mm, and as 2fast4u said, the arms should be pretty parallel to the ground.
 
I lowered the ride height further, charged the batteries and got back out again. I can still wheelie it on demand while overall driving is much better than my first run with the Backflips. My kids are getting better at accelerating slowly before punching it, although my daughter managed to wheelie flip the Talion onto its roof and momentum took the car over the ramp backwards and upside down. Wish I'd recorded that one, ? .
 
I lowered the ride height further, charged the batteries and got back out again. I can still wheelie it on demand while overall driving is much better than my first run with the Backflips. My kids are getting better at accelerating slowly before punching it, although my daughter managed to wheelie flip the Talion onto its roof and momentum took the car over the ramp backwards and upside down. Wish I'd recorded that one, ? .

Order spares, sounds like you will need some. Sooner rather than later. ?
 
The stock talion tires have very little sidewall, which is great for handling, speed and ballooning, but awful for jumps and in air control. The taller sidewalls of the backflips absorb the landings better and gives you a larger OD tire which adds more centrifugal force control to play with in the air.

Proline badlands are pretty small OD. I wouldn't expect them to hold up very long on pavement, but they do well in grass/dirt/gravel.

I run tires/wheels on my outcast that is probably against the law on this forum... traxxas e-maxx. I just wanted something cheap and readily available. Unfortunatly, I forgot how thin the sidewalls are and they tend to get cut when bashing in concrete skate parks. I was running trencher 3.8's which are as tall as the backflips, but a bit wider. They are a really good tire, especialy for 4S running. Lots of sidewall and contact area, so they hold up well at skate parks. They are also heavier which was causing me to have overheating issues when I ran in grass.
 
@olds97_lss how did you get the traxxas wheels to fit? Aren't they 14mm hex? I have so many traxxas wheels/tires from my TMAXX that I would love to use.
 
@olds97_lss how did you get the traxxas wheels to fit? Aren't they 14mm hex? I have so many traxxas wheels/tires from my TMAXX that I would love to use.
No, 17mm, but they have a keyed hex as well. I cut the little nubs out so I can use them on non-traxxas hubs.

2018-0825-Outcast-EmaxxWheelsTires-side-BodyOn.jpg


Proline trencher 3.8's vs backflips:
2018-0726-ProlineTrencher3.8-ArrmaDBoots.jpg


The tires I have vs the trenchers (ones on the right, the ones on the left are traxxas 3.8 talons):
2018-0306-Traxxas-Talon-ProlineTrencher3.8-TraxxasMaxx3.3-TRA4973.jpg
 
Gotcha....they look GREAT!!! Wish I could find some type of 17 to 14mm adapter.....I hate to just let them sit
 
I have found the best replacement for the Katar on the talion is the Katar. They just don’t hold up. Proline 38 is the closest tire and it lasts longer. I prefer a truggy style tire on the talion and even the Kraton and outcast. As far as performance the bigger you go the more you lose.
 
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