Kraton Kraton EXB with all 3 LSD stock, IRK

[parcou]

Friends

I just do not understand LSD, heck just getting somewhat familiar with open diffs as a newcomer.

I know I ask a lot of questions but at the same time, I do read a lot of posts here. I purchased a Kraton 6S EXB in Oct. Before getting it, I read all about LSD issues, shimming, etc and was prepared with needed shims. I was under the impression this rig would come with the rear open but shimmed correctly from Horizon. Also, I had in mind since I am on the ground and like to drift in the dirt to do a similar diff setup like my Infraction 60/200/30k weight. However in my reading and videos, I got more feedback and comments in YT post for the Kraton diff 50/200/20k or 60/500/30k weight as a good basher setup.

Then upon more reading and from some good people here I was told that LSD plates can be a multiplier making a light weight like 10K act thicker depending on my bashing conditions. So the stock diff oil in the K6S EXB is 10/100/10K weight.

I finally opened the rear of the K6S EXB today and the rear diff is NOT open. It has the 3 LSD plates in the rear stock and they are setup in the minimal setup with circle, star, star (still more to learn there for me). I have not gotten to the others just yet.

Well, this just wreaked all my research and stuff since I am all LSD now and most of the posts on the Kraton LSD are older as well as the videos and little newer posts on the LSD setup and how the 3 LSD diffs play into the performance.

Dirt drift/bashing is my goal with no jumping/sending and do not care for wheelies. Can anyone share their experience with all 3 LSD diffs for the f/c/r on Kraton or a similar 6S 4x4?

LSD technology has an effect to increase the weight resistance so it seems unwise to me to go UP in diff weight with a 50/200/20, any thoughts on the LSD diff weight performance increase?

Thx

 

[Monster Dork]

I run 50/200/20k in mine. It is a good starting point for all-around performance. With diff oil weights, think about it as a 10x multiplier with LSD, so the truck performs like 500/2m/200k in an open diff setup.

Any further tuning is going to have to be by you. You decide where you drive, what you drive on, and how you drive. All of those factors affect how a diff setup will perform. You wanna drift in the dirt, great, take the truck out and see what you need. Oversteer and spinout? Understeer? Wheelie machine? You know what to do- decide whether it's the front, center, or rear, and increase/decrease until it does what you want. I have a feeling with your dirt drift desire you will be stiffening the whole mess up to a high degree. It's gonna make your rig intolerable for anything but drifting, but that's what drift calls for. Firm up your shocks while you're at it.

Shimming is mandatory if you want your gears to last. It's easy, and you're already inside to do an oil swap. Get pinion gear shims and diff alignment shims for the exterior, and side gear shims for the interior of the diff.

 

[parcou]

I run 50/200/20k in mine. It is a good starting point for all-around performance. With diff oil weights, think about it as a 10x multiplier with LSD, so the truck performs like 500/2m/200k in an open diff setup.

Any further tuning is going to have to be by you. You decide where you drive, what you drive on, and how you drive. All of those factors affect how a diff setup will perform. You wanna drift in the dirt, great, take the truck out and see what you need. Oversteer and spinout? Understeer? Wheelie machine? You know what to do- decide whether it's the front, center, or rear, and increase/decrease until it does what you want. I have a feeling with your dirt drift desire you will be stiffening the whole mess up to a high degree. It's gonna make your rig intolerable for anything but drifting, but that's what drift calls for. Firm up your shocks while you're at it.

Shimming is mandatory if you want your gears to last. It's easy, and you're already inside to do an oil swap. Get pinion gear shims and diff alignment shims for the exterior, and side gear shims for the interior of the diff.

Thx for the feedback.

This helps it still taken me a min to learn open and I cannot say I have that mastered so now moving to LSD. Right I will take it out at some point to test drive it once all put together, not anywhere close yet.

I was prepared with the Arrma shim kit and extra shims many posted. Horizon might have been listening on the later releases. The pinion gear to the diff crown gear is dead on target. No movement and has all the diff ring gear covered. I was prepared to remove it and add a shim behind the input gear or shim as needed.

It came with one shim on the outside of the diff on the ringside. With the one, it is TIGHT in the diff housing but of course, after about 5 packs I will check it all again. However, Horizon got it with zero movement so no need to add shim there, for now.

Inside the LSD diff before I opened it, you can feel the slight catchiness nothing bad but feel the light roughness internally just a bit. Now, this is a bit different to me because with the Infraction open diff it is butter smooth when I put it all back together has a totally different feel when I twist the outdrives. The K6S rear feel is the same as before I took it off and after when I topped the rear LSD oil. So I am going to assume that is normal until I run it and it breaks in...????

The spider or planetary gears looked good I did not add any shims to it but I did not read anywhere I needed to for an LSD setup.

Spot on Sir that for the confirmation,

 

[Exc3l]

I run
3k/500k(Open center diff) (If you have LSD run 200-250k)/ 30k

 

[Monster Dork]

Sounds like you're sorted with the shimming! The notchiness that you feel when turning the outdrives of the LSD is normal, and does not go away. It's a result of the diff action. Fluid fills the fenestrations in the LSD plates, and gives a resistance that peaks when the fluid cohesion is sheared by the opposing motion of the fenestrations. It does smooth out a little as the plates break in (surface to surface polishing and deburring) but it never goes away. It is best regarded as a feature rather than a flaw, they just feel different than open diffs. I believe in the LSD system, as it actually does brake the faster moving output and transfers power to the traction side. Open diffs with heavy fluids do not do this, they just act like they're locking up, but the power to the slipping side never stops, it just has enough resistance to spin the traction side along with it. Plus I believe the lower viscosity oil in the LSD provides less drivetrain resistance in turns.
Another answer:
You will know if you need side gears (planetary, but that's an incorrect term here) shimmed if you grab both outdrives and push/pull them towards each other. If they have lots of wiggle and play, you need different shims. If it's snug, you're good!

 

[parcou]

I run
3k/500k(Open center diff) (If you have LSD run 200-250k)/ 30k

Thx those numbers. For your diffs, are you minimal LSD slip plates in the rear and max for the front/center? I saw a video @razorrc did for min upfront for more steering?

Sounds like you're sorted with the shimming! The notchiness that you feel when turning the outdrives of the LSD is normal, and does not go away. It's a result of the diff action. Fluid fills the fenestrations in the LSD plates, and gives a resistance that peaks when the fluid cohesion is sheared by the opposing motion of the fenestrations. It does smooth out a little as the plates break in (surface to surface polishing and deburring) but it never goes away. It is best regarded as a feature rather than a flaw, they just feel different than open diffs. I believe in the LSD system, as it actually does brake the faster moving output and transfers power to the traction side. Open diffs with heavy fluids do not do this, they just act like they're locking up, but the power to the slipping side never stops, it just has enough resistance to spin the traction side along with it. Plus I believe the lower viscosity oil in the LSD provides less drivetrain resistance in turns.
Another answer:
You will know if you need side gears (planetary, but that's an incorrect term here) shimmed if you grab both outdrives and push/pull them towards each other. If they have lots of wiggle and play, you need different shims. If it's snug, you're good!

This is a wealth of information and knowledge that I am soaking all up. Big THX!

 

[Exc3l]

Thx those numbers. For your diffs, are you minimal LSD slip plates in the rear and max for the front/center? I saw a video Razor did for min upfront for more steering?

The plates are in-stock position. @3d-rc.myshopify.com runs the same as me.

 

[N.Mango]

Friends

I just do not understand LSD, heck just getting somewhat familiar with open diffs as a newcomer.

I know I ask a lot of questions but at the same time, I do read a lot of posts here. I purchased a Kraton 6S EXB in Oct. Before getting it, I read all about LSD issues, shimming, etc and was prepared with needed shims. I was under the impression this rig would come with the rear open but shimmed correctly from Horizon. Also, I had in mind since I am on the ground and like to drift in the dirt to do a similar diff setup like my Infraction 60/200/30k weight. However in my reading and videos, I got more feedback and comments in YT post for the Kraton diff 50/200/20k or 60/500/30k weight as a good basher setup.

Then upon more reading and from some good people here I was told that LSD plates can be a multiplier making a light weight like 10K act thicker depending on my bashing conditions. So the stock diff oil in the K6S EXB is 10/100/10K weight.

I finally opened the rear of the K6S EXB today and the rear diff is NOT open. It has the 3 LSD plates in the rear stock and they are setup in the minimal setup with circle, star, star (still more to learn there for me). I have not gotten to the others just yet.

Well, this just wreaked all my research and stuff since I am all LSD now and most of the posts on the Kraton LSD are older as well as the videos and little newer posts on the LSD setup and how the 3 LSD diffs play into the performance.

Dirt drift/bashing is my goal with no jumping/sending and do not care for wheelies. Can anyone share their experience with all 3 LSD diffs for the f/c/r on Kraton or a similar 6S 4x4?

LSD technology has an effect to increase the weight resistance so it seems unwise to me to go UP in diff weight with a 50/200/20, any thoughts on the LSD diff weight performance increase?

Thx

 

[SrC]

^^^ I was just about to link this video. I have in the past regarding LSD's.

 

[N.Mango]

^^^ I was just about to link this video. I have in the past regarding LSD's.

Yea this is the best vid explaining the LSD's

 

[parcou]

^^^ I was just about to link this video. I have in the past regarding LSD's.

Thx Men. I have seen this one as well and I agree. It did answer part of it and some good posts here about how 3 LSD work together in action what I was looking for as well. As soon as I can get it all up and running, I can test to find out more about what I like and feel.

Thx

 

[N.Mango]

Thx Men. I have seen this one as well and I agree. It did answer part of it and some good posts here about how 3 LSD work together in action what I was looking for as well. As soon as I can get it all up and running, I can test to find out more about what I like and feel.

Thx

I think in the end youll just end up adjusting the feel by what oil you use rather than messing with the LSD plates. imo

 

[razorrc]

IMO, minimal LSD setting makes the oil feel roughly 2x as thick as a non-LSD diff, max LSD setting about 3x.

 

[Sandracer_NL]

I‘m on the same page as @razorrc, that a LSD with minimal effect is about 2x and with max 3x compared to open. Just a feeling, not backed up with data though.

You asked for a 6s 4x4 setting for reference: stock the Mojave EXB has F/C/R diffs: 10k/100k/10k with LSD settings max/max/min. I still run it that way.

 

[Yonic]

Tried the LSD diff and hated it. bought the shims and now i run it open.. so much better now.

 

[N.Mango]

Data or not it must be somewhat true as most everyone says the same thing. Its a cool but unnecessary feature that can have the same effect as choosing what oil to use. But it is a cool feature.
I have never ran mine with open diffs but I'm sure its a more nimble of a truck with it open...?

 

[parcou]

IMO, minimal LSD setting makes the oil feel roughly 2x as thick as a non-LSD diff, max LSD setting about 3x.

Thx Sir!

I‘m on the same page as @razorrc, that a LSD with minimal effect is about 2x and with max 3x compared to open. Just a feeling, not backed up with data though.

You asked for a 6s 4x4 setting for reference: stock the Mojave EXB has F/C/R diffs: 10k/100k/10k with LSD settings max/max/min. I still run it that way.

Thank you. Thanks for the numbers like to see what others like before I begin to test mine

Tried the LSD diff and hated it. bought the shims and now i run it open.. so much better now.

Well, I did get the shim pack if it came down to that. I will not know until I begin to run it. Thx


---

I posted this before my buddy and I have a dirt track we made. He has a Erevo but I have a BR with 30/15k diff set up but it drifts nicely in the corners and pulls out for me. My hope is to get the same drive style with K6S EXB but be able to keep up with his Erevo which I was not able to do before. I will start with stock LSD at 10/100/10 max/max/min and see how she feels and how the rear acts.

I have seen posts with folks saying they burned up their LSD plates and not sure what that means or how one does that...

 

[parcou]

I run
3k/500k(Open center diff) (If you have LSD run 200-250k)/ 30k

Boss

3K upfront. What was your goal here what does that give you or you achieve in performance by going down?

Thx

 

[Exc3l]

Boss

3K upfront. What was your goal here what does that give you or you achieve in performance by going down?

Thx

3k rear. That would imitate an open diff in the rear. An LSD in the rear is never a good option. That's why 3k is good in the back.

 

[parcou]

3k rear. That would imitate an open diff in the rear. An LSD in the rear is never a good option. That's why 3k is good in the back.

Thx...sorry I must have read that wrong. Got it