Kraton Kraton V3 Diffs Compared to another Truck bought at the same time

[Megasty]

So I bashed my Kraton V3 today for a few minutes then started to hear a distorted whine instead of the awesome growl that it usually has on takeoff. So I ended the bash early & ripped the rear diff apart to find the usual uneven wear & some completely grinded teeth - OK, ALL were grinded in some way on both the ring & pinion. No teeth were snapped or missing but some were worn halfway to nothing.

We all know Arrma doesn't have the best diffs for their 6s lineup. So is it the material, the hardening process, the machining, the design itself? Why can't these diffs live up to the representation of the trucks. I know this diff lasted for over a year so why complain. I have cars that I have beat the snot out of, on & off the track for years 5, 6, 7+ YEARS - & are still on their first set of stock diffs today. But I won't look at those phenoms right now. Instead, I'll look to a truck I bought 3 days before my Kraton V3, the Force RC Muckraker.

The Muckraker was a car a decade in the making, sold by FS Racing ages ago & brought back recently just to be snuffed out again. It has other forms in Duratrax & Reely as well as compatibility with Ofna/Habao parts. In my case, I bought it as a cheap basher to upgrade & use during the winter since my Arrma's usually suffered the most damage at that time. It came out the box with NO diff fluid, a ton of loose screws, & a stripped pillow ball. 20 minutes later, all that was fixed. It had a new JX servo & BLX185 system. So I started to beat on it . . . everyday for at least a month. The Kraton probably seen a third of that action in the same time. All in all, over the past year+, my Muckraker probably saw twice the action as my Kraton V3. So why don't I pull out the Muckraker & compare the state of it's rear diff to the garbled Kraton diff:

Muckraker Left, Kraton V3 Right - I seriously have nothing to say

Again . . . Muckraker Left, Kraton V3 Right - Sometimes pictures really say everything . . .

Muckraker Left, Kraton V3 Right . . . You know where this is headed ???

. . . . . . . . . . . . . .

Muckraker Top, Kraton V3 Bottom - Note the pitch of both ring teeth are the same. The Kraton teeth are larger but the Muckraker ring is MUCH thicker.

I could come with some glorious revelation right now but I won't. I can't. The Muckraker was $299, a 10 year old design with tons of inherent flaws & BULLETPROOF diffs. While we crawl in the dark wondering why our Kraton can't take a botched landing or 2. Or maybe you guys just love shimming these things so they can last a few more jumps. Whatever, Arrma has already taken 2 steps forward & 1 back with the V4s. I know there is a ton of money in diff repairs as well as tons of parts - you never seen or heard of a time where the diff parts were out of stock for the 6s lineup But I don't care about any of that. IF a flawed beast from the past that's constantly resurrected & killed off have incredible diffs, then so can a model & lineup with plenty of time to shine.

 

[bicketybam]

I haven't zorched a diff in almost a year. I really think that there is a big difference between an acceptable diff and one that can handle ham handed bashing (no offense intended). Is it the manufacturer's responsibility to design parts that will withstand terrible driving. I'm not so sure. Again, I'm not saying you drive it poorly but when is enough is enough? it would like be putting a steel bumper completely around the entire truck so that if someone slams it into a tree nothing breaks.

 

[Megasty]

The Kraton diff lasted over a year, I bought it in Jan of 2018. So it has done it's time, & the front is still great. Don't take it as rambling about a flawed part. It can handle all of the abuse of any sort of driver up to a point. Everything is designed to fail at some point, including these diffs. However, improvements can ALWAYS be made. Talks of when enough is enough is what led some companies to sit on upgrades for half a decade or more. Also, the Muckraker diffs ARE stronger & MUCH older, a proven design used in many 1:5 & 1:1. Don't just knock the idea as unneeded, especially when the designs already exists & can be introduced as an upgrade if not directly into the models.

 

[bicketybam]

The Kraton diff lasted over a year, I bought it in Jan of 2018. So it has done it's time, & the front is still great. Don't take it as rambling about a flawed part. It can handle all of the abuse of any sort of driver up to a point. Everything is designed to fail at some point, including these diffs. However, improvements can ALWAYS be made. Talks of when enough is enough is what led some companies to sit on upgrades for half a decade or more. Also, the Muckraker diffs ARE stronger & MUCH older, a proven design used in many 1:5 & 1:1. Don't just knock the idea as unneeded, especially when the designs already exists & can be introduced as an upgrade if not directly into the models.

Fair enough ?

 

[Clubin]

The crown and pinion is too small for the power the 6s puts out. You can shim till you’re blue in the face. The diff housing is plastic. It flexes. Which doesn’t help at all. I haven’t pooched a diff yet but I’m sure it’s coming. I have a few spares though so I’m not overly concerned.

My sons notorious lands bad 99% of the time, never on the power. He hasn’t blown a crown yet.

Hopefully arrma reads this and beefs up something in the v5 6s lol.

 

[bicketybam]

My sons notorious lands bad 99% of the time, never on the power. He hasn’t blown a crown yet.

Hopefully arrma reads this and beefs up something in the v5 6s lol.

That's your argument for needing upgraded diffs?

I'd rather pay extra money to have a part not fail when you land a jump perfectly, like the chassis as opposed to the diffs which will withstand a perfect landing. I bash the crap out of my trucks and I see lots of parts fail. The diffs aren't one of them.

 

[Jimbobjr]

The angled diff removal is part of the reason the Arrma Difs are a little smaller. The Muckraker with a little work and the Blx system is a Force to be reckoned with. Their diffs come out the old fashioned way though...

 

[olds97_lss]

I haven't zorched a diff in almost a year. I really think that there is a big difference between an acceptable diff and one that can handle ham handed bashing (no offense intended). Is it the manufacturer's responsibility to design parts that will withstand terrible driving. I'm not so sure. Again, I'm not saying you drive it poorly but when is enough is enough? it would like be putting a steel bumper completely around the entire truck so that if someone slams it into a tree nothing breaks.

I get what your saying, but arrma is advertised as TOUGH. "DON'T BASH! BLAST!"

With a 6S truck that weighs as much as these things do, the diffs really are pretty anemic.

If these were intended for track use, then what's in there is enough. But track racing isn't what it appears arrma is into and it would make sense that they would design something for the intended user.

 

[Megasty]

The motor mount & diff cup, both which I'm taking full advantage of, was a nice surprise. I'd love to see a chassis, but seeing what they think a thin 6061 should cost, a 7075 would be stratospheric at best. But with all the trouble most people are having the diffs crapping out relatively fast, that's the elephant in the room. I mean, c'mon - those Muck diffs are a 10 yr old design & still look new after a year in a half of 6s torture. You can't say you want Arrma's bacon over that beef steak.

 

[Cheapbastard]

Not only the size of the teeth and gears but look at the design difference. The Muckraker with a spiral cut design vs the straight cut of the 6s. I wouldn't mind more RC's going with the spiral cut just seems like a better bite in the gear mesh to me but I might be wrong.

Edit: Just saw Megasty post mentioning design difference I agree the design should be seen more. Anybody know why it's not?

 

[jondilly1974]

The motor mount & diff cup, both which I'm taking full advantage of, was a nice surprise. I'd love to see a chassis, but seeing what they think a thin 6061 should cost, a 7075 would be stratospheric at best. But with all the trouble most people are having the diffs crapping out relatively fast, that's the elephant in the room. I mean, c'mon - those Muck diffs are a 10 yr old design & still look new after a year in a half of 6s torture. You can't say you want Arrma's bacon over that beef steak.

I like a side of bacon with my beef steak ?

 

[Megasty]

Not only the size of the teeth and gears but look at the design difference. The Muckraker with a spiral cut design vs the straight cut of the 6s. I wouldn't mind more RC's going with the spiral cut just seems like a better bite in the gear mesh to me but I might be wrong.

Edit: Just saw Megasty post mentioning design difference I agree the design should be seen more. Anybody know why it's not?

The Muck gear is the classic 45° angle cut spiral. This angle allows for the greatest tooth length & contact area. It's 43t & the pinion is 13t. With the spur being 49t, it can easily achieve ridiculous speeds with small pinions. The diffs also transfer power more efficiently. There's absolutely no way an Arrma can keep up. They can handle more abuse because of the larger area of contact that dissipates more impact forces. There are too many benefits to not use these gears. The only downside is cost, in material & production. Arrma's gear is 15°, so darn slight that you can hardly tell it's even spiral cut. This gear is in the Kraton, Talion, Outc/Noto. The actual straight cut gear is in the Typhon, Senton, Infr/Lim. They're both 43t. The pinions are 10t for spiral & 13t for straight.

Seriously, which gear would you want in your 1:1. I just replaced my Durango's diff fluid last week & guess what was in there . . . this lovely piece of beef

 

[Full Throttle R/C]

I wish Robinson racing made diff gears❤

 

[xSUBtRONiKx]

My Arrmas have withstood tons of punishment. I really could not ask for much more from these trucks. The mukraker gears may be bigger but that does not mean they are a higher grade of steel. I'm not sure if there is an advantage to spiral cut gears. In my experience the primary reason for those gears failing is gearbox flex, cracking, or warping. If those giant gears are sitting in a plastic gearbox they will be prone to the same kind of wear/damage. The HR aluminum gearbox can eliminate this issuue in Arrma vehicles. My diffs have been working for over 2 years with the Mugen shims. The teeth are wearing but you can only see it upon visual inspection. I will be replacing the driveline this winter with new dogbones, gears, cups and bearings all for under 150. Parts pricing and availability are important to consider. All Rc gears will fail eventually with the stress they are under. That being said that Mukracker does look like a bad beast! Any new rc should be inspected for proper shimming and loose screws in my opinion.

 

[Full Throttle R/C]

My Arrmas have withstood tons of punishment. I really could not ask for much more from these trucks. The mukraker gears may be bigger but that does not mean they are a higher grade of steel. I'm not sure if there is an advantage to spiral cut gears. In my experience the primary reason for those gears failing is gearbox flex, cracking, or warping. If those giant gears are sitting in a plastic gearbox they will be prone to the same kind of wear/damage. The HR aluminum gearbox can eliminate this issuue in Arrma vehicles. My diffs have been working for over 2 years with the Mugen shims. The teeth are wearing but you can only see it upon visual inspection. I will be replacing the driveline this winter with new dogbones, gears, cups and bearings all for under 150. Parts pricing and a availability are important to consider. All Rc gears will fail eventually with the stress they are under. That being said that Mukracker does look like a bad beast! Any new rc should be inspected for proper shimming and loose screws in my opinion.

Part number for the shims your using brother?

 

[xSUBtRONiKx]

Part # MUGE0206. It comes with enough washers for all 3 diffs. Ebay has them...

 

[Full Throttle R/C]

Part # MUGE0206. It comes with enough washers for all 3 diffs. Ebay has them...

Awesome! Thank you ??