Kraton Kraton vs Losi LST 3XLE

[bicketybam]

A lot of info on it

Servo mount
Servo
Bearings
Esc
Rebuild Diff (most wait to blow up the stock)

ESC? I don’t think so. Honestly, I don’t think there are any "must do" upgrades for a Kraton. Check the diffs to see if they need shimming and change the oil to something heavier (50/200/30 f/c/r). Set the end points on the stock servo. Drive it and see what you think. Sealed bearings are nice. The V3 servo mount is much improved. I really think you should drive it for a bit and see what you want to improve instead of just automatically changing out parts. It might save you a bunch of money.

I run dual 3s packs, so I can’t help with a decent single 6s.

 

[Jimbobjr]

no upgrades “needed” to run 6s. Run the thing and spend your money on good batteries and a charger. When things break or stop working then upgrade to something better.

I run Vant and hobbystar 6s hardcase packs. Anything over 5000mah and 50c will get heavy.

 

[bicketybam]

no upgrades “needed” to run 6s. Run the thing and spend your money on good batteries and a charger. When things break or stop working then upgrade to something better.

^^^this

 

[nytro97]

Do dual 3s batteries have an advantage over a single 6s ?

 

[nytro97]

I have a good charger....I fly RC helicopters.

 

[bicketybam]

Do dual 3s batteries have an advantage over a single 6s ?

You are going to get varied responses. In the end I’d say no. Whatever is easier for is what you should run.

 

[Ronnie]

I run a gensacearespammers 50cc 4500mah

 

[nytro97]

Hard case or soft case battery. How about this one...

https://www.gensacearespammers.com/...ivFnjCUvhD00Z0Heqxx6C37IjGdq2O8xoCMQEQAvD_BwE

 

[MeesterC]

I run two 3s gensacearespammers 5000mah hard packs in my kraton. I get around 30 - 40 minutes of run time depending on how heavy my trigger finger is....... Lol. I like having smaller batteries because they're more versatile and I can run them in my other rigs. The bricks are heavy and usually confined to just one rig or so, hard to use them in the smaller rc's.

 

[slick2500]

The LST 3XLE came out about a year ago now, so it still is fairly new, but from my understanding shares some parts with the LST2. The esc in that is a rebranded Hobbywing WP-8BL150(same thing as the BLX185) and the motor also appears to be a rebranded Hobbywing(just like the Arrma BLX185). @TheMightyAtom has one and says he loves it. https://www.arrmaforum.com/threads/losi-3xl-e.5537/#post-63977

Do dual 3s batteries have an advantage over a single 6s ?

They each have positives and negatives. 6s bricks are heavy, huge and often times cost more than 2 3s lipos. When running 2 3s lipos both lipos MUST be the same voltage, same mah, same c rate, same age and the same manufacturer. If you loose a cell on 1 of the 2 3s lipos after a few months you must buy 2 new 3s lipos, never ever under any circumstances mix old batteries with new batteries.

 

[Krathead]

The LST 3XLE came out about a year ago now, so it still is fairly new, but from my understanding shares some parts with the LST2. The esc in that is a rebranded Hobbywing WP-8BL150(same thing as the BLX185) and the motor also appears to be a rebranded Hobbywing(just like the Arrma BLX185). @TheMightyAtom has one and says he loves it. https://www.arrmaforum.com/threads/losi-3xl-e.5537/#post-63977


They each have positives and negatives. 6s bricks are heavy, huge and often times cost more than 2 3s lipos. When running 2 3s lipos both lipos MUST be the same voltage, same mah, same c rate, same age and the same manufacturer. If you loose a cell on 1 of the 2 3s lipos after a few months you must buy 2 new 3s lipos, never ever under any circumstances mix old batteries with new batteries.

Why not mix old and new? If they are the same battery and are in good condition then why not? I would think the only worry would be the IR. If that is very close to the same then they are the same thing. I can understand not mixing a worn out battery with a new, but if it is still working with a low IR then why not use it and just keep an eye on it?

 

[slick2500]

Why not mix old and new? If they are the same battery and are in good condition then why not? I would think the only worry would be the IR. If that is very close to the same then they are the same thing. I can understand not mixing a worn out battery with a new, but if it is still working with a low IR then why not use it and just keep an eye on it?

This is seriously something that I should not have to explain but here it goes.

Short version is and always will be never ever under any circumstances mix old and new batteries.

The long version. The worst thing you can do to just about any kind of battery, whether rechargeable or not, is to push an amount of current through it which is large relative to its short-circuit current. As a battery gets depleted, its short-circuit current--and thus the level of current which it can safely handle--will diminish. If all batteries in a stack get depleted at the same time, the amount of current flowing in the system will remain below the amount of current that the weakest battery can safely handle. If, however, one of the batteries in the stack is depleted while other batteries remain strong, the strong batteries may manage to push significant current through the weak one even when its short-circuit current has diminished to basically nothing. Such abuse will severely degrade the useful life of rechargeable batteries, and may cause non-rechargeable batteries (or even rechargeable ones) to release corrosive gunk.

Some info directly from a battery manufacturer.
Q. Can I mix old and new batteries?
A. Do not mix old and new batteries. Doing so will reduce overall performance and may cause battery leakage or rupture. We recommend replacing all batteries within a device.

Q. Can I mix different battery types?
A. No, different batteries are designed for different purposes. Mixing a lithium battery with an alkaline battery will not improve device performance. In fact, it will reduce performance and may even damage your device or cause battery leakage or rupture.

As well, do not mix different battery brands within a device. Doing so will reduce overall performance and may also cause battery leakage or rupture. We recommend using the same type of batteries within a device.

Q. Do I have to change all the batteries at the same time?
A. We do recommend changing all batteries in a unit at the same time. A partially used battery will drain energy from a new one, reducing the total amount of battery power available.

Personally I would much rather not take the risk of burning my car or house down because I wanted to save $50........

Of course we aren't talking about the lipo batteries that only have a few cycles on them and you just bought them last week. Im talking about lipos that you have had for several months and have dozens of cycles through them, which is the most likely scenario.

 

[Krathead]

This is seriously something that I should not have to explain but here it goes.

I have to say, this is one of the most arrogant and condescending comments I have seen on this board.

I understand everything you are saying. I think most of us "dumb" people do. Let me rephrase what I am trying to say. Maybe I'm not explaining well.
No one thinks it is ok to match a worn out battery with a new one.
Just because a battery is new does not necessarily make it better than an "old" one. If you have a battery that is 6 months old and know how to properly maintain it then it might be better than a "new" one. If it balances good and you have no trouble with it and you check the internal resistance and it is still on par with when it was new then that is a good battery. If you buy 2 batteries together to run at the same time and check the IR and one is 6 and the other is 25 then that is NOT OK. Most of what you posted seems to be cut and pasted from a manufacturers website. What the heck does mixing an alkaline battery with a lipo have to do with this conversation? Is that the part you shouldn't have to explain to me? If so I agree. My point is take the time to learn how to tell if your battery is healthy or not. Don't just guess that it is better because of the date it was purchased. The proof is in the battery not on the sales slip. If you bother to you can tell the difference between a healthy battery and one that isn't regardless of age. You mention nothing of internal resistance in your original advice but insist that if they are not bought together they are a bad match. Purchase date will tell you nothing. Internal resistance and how they balance will tell you a great deal more. That is the point I was trying to make.
Please everyone, if you are going to pair two batteries together then check the internal resistance and make sure they are a good match. If not then don't use them. Don't wait 2 or three months like advised to see if they go bad.
not looking to argue the point. I don't believe I know everything about the subject but I do believe that matching IR is more important than matching the born on date. I also believe that putting others down in a condescending way says more about you than it does them. NOT cool.

 

[slick2500]

I have to say, this is one of the most arrogant and condescending comments I have seen on this board.

I understand everything you are saying. I think most of us "dumb" people do. Let me rephrase what I am trying to say. Maybe I'm not explaining well.
No one thinks it is ok to match a worn out battery with a new one.
Just because a battery is new does not necessarily make it better than an "old" one. If you have a battery that is 6 months old and know how to properly maintain it then it might be better than a "new" one. If it balances good and you have no trouble with it and you check the internal resistance and it is still on par with when it was new then that is a good battery. If you buy 2 batteries together to run at the same time and check the IR and one is 6 and the other is 25 then that is NOT OK. Most of what you posted seems to be cut and pasted from a manufacturers website. What the heck does mixing an alkaline battery with a lipo have to do with this conversation? Is that the part you shouldn't have to explain to me? If so I agree. My point is take the time to learn how to tell if your battery is healthy or not. Don't just guess that it is better because of the date it was purchased. The proof is in the battery not on the sales slip. If you bother to you can tell the difference between a healthy battery and one that isn't regardless of age. You mention nothing of internal resistance in your original advice but insist that if they are not bought together they are a bad match. Purchase date will tell you nothing. Internal resistance and how they balance will tell you a great deal more. That is the point I was trying to make.
Please everyone, if you are going to pair two batteries together then check the internal resistance and make sure they are a good match. If not then don't use them. Don't wait 2 or three months like advised to see if they go bad.
not looking to argue the point. I don't believe I know everything about the subject but I do believe that matching IR is more important than matching the born on date. I also believe that putting others down in a condescending way says more about you than it does them. NOT cool.

Because telling someone why not to mix old and new batteries is something that I should not have to explain, it's not like it's something new that you just learned today. Each and every single battery operated device I have ever purchased has said to never mix old and new batteries, and never mix rechargeable and non rechargeable batteries. This is stuff that I was taught in grade school science.

All that info was posted because this information pertains to every single type of battery on the planet, not just lipos.

Because Internal Resistance is not everything when it comes to lipo batteries. IR isn't the only thing you need to worry about, it is one of a few things. Remember as a lipo battery gets cycled its capacity and ability to hold said capacity diminishes with each and every cycle, irregardless of how well you maintain your batteries. Same goes for every single type of rechargeable battery. So no matter what you do or how hard you try a 6 month old lipo with 100+ cycles on it will now have a smaller capacity than the 1 brand new battery that you just bought. Now what happens when you mix 2 batteries of different capacities together in series? The smaller capacity battery will drain faster than the larger capacity battery, now when you pull those 2 batteries out of a car at the end of a run the larger capacity battery will be at LVC and the smaller battery will be below LVC. Now what do we know happens to over discharged lipos? Which leads us back to the guidelines to abide by when running 2 batteries together in an rc car. Both batteries must be the same capacity, same discharge rate, from the same manufacturer and the same age. These guidelines weren't just randomly pulled out of a hat, they are guidelines for a reason, to keep you from destroying batteries, your electronic device or your house.

Lipo batteries are already pretty volatile the way it is, there is no reason to add the risk of mixing old and new batteries together to the mix.

It's not like I am pulling this poop out of my ass. Do even the smallest amount of research on this subject and you will find thousands of posts, blogs ect explaining why you should not mix used and new batteries of any type ever.

Call me an asshole or whatever you want, just don't call me late for dinner , but this entire conversation should not have even taken place, there was absolutely no reason to be arguing about whether or not mixing old and new batteries is safe especially with lipo batteries.

 

[Krathead]

Are you kidding me? Your missing my whole point. Not going to argue with you

BTW what you are talking about IS what the IR check is for. You are arguing my whole point and can't even see it.

 

[slick2500]

Are you kidding me? Your missing my whole point. Not going to argue with you

BTW what you are talking about IS what the IR check is for. You are arguing my whole point and can't even see it.

Well your 6 month old battery is and always will have a higher ir than the new batteries, if the new batteries are higher than the 6 month old battery then they are no good. IR will always increase as the battery gets cycled. IR will never tell you the capacity of a battery.

At this point I feel you are just arguing to argue. I'm done trying to explain why you should not do this but obviously you don't get it and are fixated on internal resistance.

 

[Krathead]

I have bought new batteries with an IR of 20 and had 6 month old batteries with much lower IR. That is the point. CHECK IT. Don't assume because it is new it is ok. Don't run a high IR battery with a low IR battery regardless of age. How much more simple can I make it for you?

 

[Jeremy in WI]

 

[Krathead]

Remember as a lipo battery gets cycled its capacity and ability to hold said capacity diminishes with each and every cycle, irregardless of how well you maintain your batteries. Same goes for every single type of rechargeable battery. So no matter what you do or how hard you try a 6 month old lipo with 100+ cycles on it will now have a smaller capacity than the 1 brand new battery that you just bought. Now what happens when you mix 2 batteries of different capacities together in series? The smaller capacity battery will drain faster than the larger capacity battery, now when you pull those 2 batteries out of a car at the end of a run the larger capacity battery will be at LVC and the smaller battery will be below LVC. Now what do we know happens to over discharged lipos? Which leads us back to the guidelines to abide by when running 2 batteries together in an rc car. Both batteries must be the same capacity, same discharge rate, from the same manufacturer and the same age. These guidelines weren't just randomly pulled out of a hat, they are guidelines for a reason, to keep you from destroying batteries, your electronic device or your house.

Dude, seriously. The capacity of my 6 month old battery is 22.2 volts just like a new one. What is changing is it's ability to hold it's charge not it's capacity. Two different things. This is because of IR. As it gets older the IR will go up. THIS is how you know a battery is getting old not how long you have had it. Again you are arguing my point but don't seem to understand that. IR is NOT capacity. Don't rely on the stuff you were taught in grade school science. It will only get you so far.

 

[slick2500]

Now I see where the confusion is.

Voltage is not a measurement of the capacity of a battery. Voltage is a measure of the difference of potential that would drive one ampere of current against one ohm resistance. The voltage of a battery will remain the same throughout the entire life of a pack, unless you loose a cell or the cell goes bad.

Capacity of a battery is measured in milliampere hours(mah) or the energy charge that a battery will hold and how long a device will run before the battery needs recharging.

Internal resistance will never tell you the capacity(mah) of a battery.

So in this instance the capacity(mah) of the old battery will be less than the capacity(mah) of the new battery. This is not something that is just for lipos, but every rechargeable battery over time will loose capacity(mah) as the battery is cycled. Ever notice how a new rechargeable battery lasts longer than an old one? Or how over time your cell phone doesn't hold a charge as long as it used to, this is why.