Mamba Monster X combo installed!

[Bic1090]

What do you mean by "smaller"? My Castle 1515 2200KV and Nero motors are the same size dimensionally or close.

 

[Cr3pitus]

They're virtually the same size but I think the Nero motor is 3mm wider in diameter. It's listed as a 4075 motor but it's 43mm wide whereas the castle is 39.98mm wide. But that's why I put it in quotations lol.
Also according to arrmas supplied gearing "chart" (if you can call it a chart) the 17t pinion is basically just mean for perfect condition speed runs. I'll probably never put it on just because of the added heat from that and the mmx runs a litter warmer anyway from what I hear at the lhs. I still definitely prefer the mmx over the stock ESC though.

 

[Bic1090]

Ohhh lol, I gotcha. The Castle motor came with a 18T pinion gear so that's why I put on the Nero 17T initally. But it has constantly gone into thermal shutdown, even after putting the 15T back in last weekend. I am going to try and swap in the stock motor and see how that goes come Friday. I hope I didn't toast my Castle motor. But my Arrma esc stopped working, hence the Castle setup. Idk, I'm so damn frustrated with the whole thing really, it's been one thing after another with the Nero. Kinda makes me think I would have been better off with the Xmaxx like I had planned initally. But I'll forge on ahead for the moment and see how it plays out.

 

[Josh nortz]

Yah castle makes great motors but I guess technically the castle mmx combo does use a "smaller" higher kV motor so maybe 2200 is just not low enough for such a heavy truck. I'm tempted to try to find a good like 1600kv motor I think that would be perfect

I tend to think your right... the castle combo is sweet but nero is heavy... mmx is even pushing limits in nero... i have a brand new mmx sitting here with xt90 connectors on it...I suppose I should throw it in the fazon and see how it does with the stock motor.

 

[Cr3pitus]

Thats why I didnt go with the castle motor, even though I love their motors. The one I put in my merv has been epic, but I really want a lower kv motor than what they have,, aside from the 800kv 2028 but thats too crazy. Im starting to think about the Tekin T8 sensored 1350kv. No way Id have heat issues with that on stock gearing either. The MMX seems to be doing fine on the stock motor but I think it'll be even happier with an even lower kv more efficient motor.

Well - sorry for the double post. But I drank too much at a hotel tonight while on a business trip and ordered the SkyRC Toro 6 pole 1500 kV motor. I have used some of their products in the past and have always been super impressed. I couldn't resist 1500kv and 6 poles for their amazing price! It'll probably take a week to get here but when it does I'll update on how it worjs with the mmx set up. Should be pretty awesome

 

[Bic1090]

Haha it happens man! Well do let us know. What does a loker KV rating do then? More tq less speed? I don't want to loose a ton of speed with a lower KV motor swap, though its better than having esc shut down.
I have put stock nero motor back in my nero for the moment, though I did notice that the can was loose and was wobbly.. , so I tightened up a couple screws around the base.

 

[Cr3pitus]

Haha it happens man! Well do let us know. What does a loker KV rating do then? More tq less speed? I don't want to loose a ton of speed with a lower KV motor swap, though its better than having esc shut down.
I have put stock nero motor back in my nero for the moment, though I did notice that the can was loose and was wobbly.. , so I tightened up a couple screws around the base.

With all gearing the same yeah that's the effect. More torque and efficiency less max rpm. But the advantage is when you lower kV you typically can gear up to match top speed and still maintain the lower temp. I think I'll use 15t for bashing and I bet with the 17t I'll achieve the same top speed if I want to

 

[Bic1090]

Huh. So you went from a 2200kv to a 1500kv and think you can get the same speed, or close with the 17T and less heat and more runtime? I am very curious to see how it turns out man. I'm not being a smartass, just curious. I may be looking at a new motor if my Castle 2200kv is bad. Let us know how it goes!! And I'll keep updated for my nero setup also.
I did notice that the Castle1515 says it does roughly 60,000 rpm.. What does the Nero motor do stock? Anyone know?

And I spoke with Joe, he says the motor temp will be wrong in the data log because it is a sensorless motor.

 

[Cr3pitus]

Huh. So you went from a 2200kv to a 1500kv and think you can get the same speed, or close with the 17T and less heat and more runtime? I am very curious to see how it turns out man. I'm not being a smartass, just curious. I may be looking at a new motor if my Castle 2200kv is bad. Let us know how it goes!! And I'll keep updated for my nero setup also.
I did notice that the Castle1515 says it does roughly 60,000 rpm.. What does the Nero motor do stock? Anyone know?

And I spoke with Joe, he says the motor temp will be wrong in the data log because it is a sensorless motor.

I'm going from stock to 1500 so 2000kv to 1500 kV. So if I'm on 6s my max rpm will be 33,000rpm. The castle might be capable of 60k but it can only achieve the rpm available by the kV of the motor x the voltage you're using. So your set up can theoretically achieve 48,840 at 22.2v. The stock motor on 6s would be 44,400rpm. I'm hoping that with the low kV and lower rpm I can get close to stock speed with gearing up. I may be able to go up past 17t if everything stays really cool. I'll definitely let you know if it just turns into a slow torque beast lol. Hopefully not!

 

[Bic1090]

Haha, yeah all that tq would not be as much fun without some good speed still! According to Joe, I'm still hitting 51000 rpm on the castle motor, but my amps are running over 220, which is causing the esc to go into overheat shutdown. Thats what we are trying to figure out why.. That and my ripple is still a bit high.
Hopefully I can get a full run in on the stock nero motor though. Ill look at the settings tonight and test tomorrow.

Hey Cr3pitus what do you think about this from SkyRc..?
http://www.skyrc.com/index.php?route=product/product&path=39&product_id=235
The price is ridiculously low and have heard good things about their other motors.. I know you said you got their1500KV motor, this one is 1950KV.. I may just bite the bullet and try it. Lol

 

[Cr3pitus]

Haha, yeah all that tq would not be as much fun without some good speed still! According to Joe, I'm still hitting 51000 rpm on the castle motor, but my amps are running over 220, which is causing the esc to go into overheat shutdown. Thats what we are trying to figure out why.. That and my ripple is still a bit high.
Hopefully I can get a full run in on the stock nero motor though. Ill look at the settings tonight and test tomorrow.

Hey Cr3pitus what do you think about this from SkyRc..?
http://www.skyrc.com/index.php?route=product/product&path=39&product_id=235
The price is ridiculously low and have heard good things about their other motors.. I know you said you got their1500KV motor, this one is 1950KV.. I may just bite the bullet and try it. Lol

I'm sure you'd like it - I remember reading that they started like 15 years ago and were a premier manufacturer of some of the motors for big name brushless motor comoanies so quality isn't an issue. I love that that motor has like a trillion slot stator too.

 

[Bic1090]

So you seem to know a lot about motors and stuff, what does it mean that it has 18 slot stator and 6 pole design. I know the Nero is 4 pole stock, same with Castle 2200. Does more poles mean more tq with less effort?

 

[Cr3pitus]

So you seem to know a lot about motors and stuff, what does it mean that it has 18 slot stator and 6 pole design. I know the Nero is 4 pole stock, same with Castle 2200. Does more poles mean more tq with less effort?

I only know about a decent enthusiast amount. I just keep my understanding at the usable level - basically poles = # of magnets moving. More magnets means more torque and more efficiency which is good for larger vehicles. More poles also allows a lower kV motor to overcome the low kV rpm limitations a little to achieve higher rpm than a motor of equal kV but fewer poles. As far a the stator, that's the magnets that aren't moving. The more you have in the stator the more efficiently the motor "turns" because there's less gap in between the magnet the rotor just passed, and the next magnet it's moving towards.

 

[Bic1090]

I only know about a decent enthusiast amount. I just keep my understanding at the usable level - basically poles = # of magnets moving. More magnets means more torque and more efficiency which is good for larger vehicles. More poles also allows a lower kV motor to overcome the low kV rpm limitations a little to achieve higher rpm than a motor of equal kV but fewer poles. As far a the stator, that's the magnets that aren't moving. The more you have in the stator the more efficiently the motor "turns" because there's less gap in between the magnet the rotor just passed, and the next magnet it's moving towards.

Well that's still great info though, I appreciate it!! I think I may look into that SkyRc motor I posted up since the stats seem to be pretty good, especially for the price. If I pull the trigger soon I will post updates here. Thanks for the info.

 

[PPS-RC]

I look at things slightly wrong but also slightly right at the same time. given the hypothetical that every motor has the same efficiency, you're going to need to adjust gearing according to KV to maintain the same load. overloading motors is what's generating the heat.

The castle motor is 2200kv vs the stock 2000. in my own un scientific brain thought, you're gaining 10% in rpm/volt but are losing 10% in torque. running the same pinion would yeild higher speeds on the castle motor for sure, but at a 10% higher load. to equalize the load to rpm and voltage, you want to take 10% of your gear out. so with a factory 15t pinion, you would want to take 1.5 teeth out. rounded to a real gear, a 13t pinion would be a good choice. you can also think backwards, that running a 15t pinion on the castle motor is similar to running a 17t on a stock motor, and the 17t is really closer to a 19t on the stock motor.

Of course there are exceptions and different efficiencies of motors, but I feel this is a decent rule of thumb. so in the case of the 1500kv motor, to achieve stock 15t pinion speeds and load, you'd need a 19t pinion.

the cool thing with lower kv motors is that you CAN gear them lower to achieve higher torque at slower speeds. pinions only come so small. if the smallest pinion you can buy is 13t and you still don't have enough torque from the 2000kv motor, the 1500kv motor will give you that range. (i used 13t as an example... I don't know what's really available)
The same is true on the other end of the spectrum regarding speed. higher kv gets you more speed. you just are at the mercy of load.

 

[Bic1090]

Hey Havoc, thanks for the insite and input! I actually ordered a 13T pinion for my Castle 2200KV and it showed up today. I think I am still going to run the stock motor tomorrow and see how it runs with the MMX esc though. I really need to trouble shoot and see if I can get the esc to stop going into thermal shutdown. So step one atm is use stock motor with stock gearing, which is installed, just not ran yet. After this I may put on the 13T pinion, or I may order that SkyRc motor I posted the link to, undecided atm. One thing at a time though. Haha

 

[PPS-RC]

Hey Havoc, thanks for the insite and input! I actually ordered a 13T pinion for my Castle 2200KV and it showed up today. I think I am still going to run the stock motor tomorrow and see how it runs with the MMX esc though. I really need to trouble shoot and see if I can get the esc to stop going into thermal shutdown. So step one atm is use stock motor with stock gearing, which is installed, just not ran yet. After this I may put on the 13T pinion, or I may order that SkyRc motor I posted the link to, undecided atm. One thing at a time though. Haha

With your logging capabilities, it would be really cool to compare the amperage draw of the factory motor on 15t to the castle on 13t.

Also, in my perfect world scenario, the castle motor would draw 10% more current than stock if they both ran the same pinions. so if the stock motor pulls (for reference only) 150a, the castle should pull 165 at the same RPM. since the castle motor can reach higher rpms, it raises the current draw even higher.

Dropping teeth should help equalize the load, but at that point you've essentially made both setups perform the same and it doesn't really matter which motor you run. things would be different if you weren't so close to your current limit.

 

[Bic1090]

Yeah man it's been a huge ordeal since installed the CC motor. I have been in constant contact with Joe Ford over at Castle and he is saying that with the 15T on the Castle motor, I'm still pulling over 220 amps, which is causing thermal shutdown. That and my ripple is higher than preferred, about 11% atm. That's not to say that it's Castles fault, more so that the truck is too heavy for that KV rating I think. That motor is really great and has tons of torque!!! Same with the esc, great quality and their customer service is top notch from my experience. I may try and log both the stock motor/ 15T pinion with the Castle/ 13T pinon once I get a full run from it though.

 

[Cr3pitus]

I look at things slightly wrong but also slightly right at the same time. given the hypothetical that every motor has the same efficiency, you're going to need to adjust gearing according to KV to maintain the same load. overloading motors is what's generating the heat.

The castle motor is 2200kv vs the stock 2000. in my own un scientific brain thought, you're gaining 10% in rpm/volt but are losing 10% in torque. running the same pinion would yeild higher speeds on the castle motor for sure, but at a 10% higher load. to equalize the load to rpm and voltage, you want to take 10% of your gear out. so with a factory 15t pinion, you would want to take 1.5 teeth out. rounded to a real gear, a 13t pinion would be a good choice. you can also think backwards, that running a 15t pinion on the castle motor is similar to running a 17t on a stock motor, and the 17t is really closer to a 19t on the stock motor.

Of course there are exceptions and different efficiencies of motors, but I feel this is a decent rule of thumb. so in the case of the 1500kv motor, to achieve stock 15t pinion speeds and load, you'd need a 19t pinion.

the cool thing with lower kv motors is that you CAN gear them lower to achieve higher torque at slower speeds. pinions only come so small. if the smallest pinion you can buy is 13t and you still don't have enough torque from the 2000kv motor, the 1500kv motor will give you that range. (i used 13t as an example... I don't know what's really available)
The same is true on the other end of the spectrum regarding speed. higher kv gets you more speed. you just are at the mercy of load.

Legit way of thinking about it! 19 is precisely what I was going to order, and then test between the supplied 17 and the 19. I wouldn't mind losing 3mph top end but also lose a bunch of heat and gain even more grunt.

 

[Bic1090]

Legit way of thinking about it! 19 is precisely what I was going to order, and then test between the supplied 17 and the 19. I wouldn't mind losing 3mph top end but also lose a bunch of heat and gain even more grunt.

Legit way of thinking about it! 19 is precisely what I was going to order, and then test between the supplied 17 and the 19. I wouldn't mind losing 3mph top end but also lose a bunch of heat and gain even more grunt.

I totally agree with losing 3 or so mph. When driven off road are we really going to notice 3 mph that much?? And let's be honest, do we really need to hit a jump at 65mph? As sweet at that would be, and it would be epic, the chances of breaking all sorts of things is high. Bashing is more tq oriented anyway.