Kraton Motor and ESC upgrade

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate
links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.
I base my prices off Ebay, one selling for $85 new right now, and chop shops selling them about this price all the time, new take-offs. Tower actually had the BLX200 on clearance recently as low as $70. MAX8 is running $117. More than 25% difference, but I know $30 difference is not a big expense in RC. I didn't like the power curve of the BLX200 in Nero, I really like to tailor my throttle and brake curves in the Castle software, as well as punch, timing, etc...
 
Yes a 30mm wild turbo fan fits in the mmx shroud. Keep in mind that the plastic that covers the caps on the esc needs to be trimmed back because the wild turbo fan is thicker. Also, use the standard wild turbo 30 mm fan, not the windy fan.. The windy os waaaay to thick.
Out of curiosity, what is the C rating of your batteries? And you could always email Joe at castle and have him look over your data logs. He did that for me a bunch when I was having issues when that setup was in my Nero. He is a good guy and definitely helpful.
 
OK, I figured the MMX housing would require modification, if I want to go back to original the fan and housing is only $12 or so.

My batteries are 45C 5200mah from rcjuice.com

I see others running MMX with stock motor, or Mamba motor, or some other motors in the range of 2000-2200KV among the forums and FB groups. There seems to be a few variables I've narrowed down from those who say they don't have any issues, either

1) they're running only 4s battery
2) most of them are running smaller tires. I'm running Arrma Backflips, which have diameter of 6.8 inches, and others are running Proline Badlands which are only 5.85 inches in diameter. Stock tires are 6.5 inches This makes a huge difference in claculations, like gearing down a couple of teeth on the Pinion. One guy is reporting he's fine on 50/19 gearing and Badlands, but ambient temperature is pretty low.
3) Terrain. Most of my play areas are grassy fields here in FL, the grass gets very thick, like your foot sinks into it, even when it's mowed. This puts a lot of load on they motor/esc, and coupled with large grippy tires, I think that may be the primary factor now. I may have to get smaller tires, or go down to 12 or 13T pinion vs. current 15T

I spent a lot of time playing with this online calculator, and it seems the only way to get everything in their recommended green spec is to go with less than 6s battery, or all the way down to 1800KV motor. I have my eye on Castle 1518, which is the discontinued 1800KV long can that can handle 6s power. No matter how I tweak the pinion and tires, it says that anything above 1800KV motor will be running too high RPM on 6S voltage.

http://www.scriptasylum.com/rc_speed/car_setup.html

I have a 12T pinion to try, if that and the fans doesn't fix it, I'll definitely seek advice from Castle before changing motor or ESC.
 
Yeah you may be right bud. Thick grass can def have a impact. Im running crappy 40C batteries and my MMX would constantly go into shutdown when in the Nero. Once in the Kraton it has not happened.
I am running 17T pinion, double chassis plates, Proline Trencher 40 series. But I only run 6S.
As far as gearing, I tried running a 13T pinion and initially it would not stay on the shaft. Once that was fixed, I chewed up 2 spur gears within a min of running it, this was in the Nero, not Kraton. Hope u can get it worked out bud. Have you tried changing the motor timing to low and possibly turning the punch down?

OK, I figured the MMX housing would require modification, if I want to go back to original the fan and housing is only $12 or so.

My batteries are 45C 5200mah from rcjuice.com

I see others running MMX with stock motor, or Mamba motor, or some other motors in the range of 2000-2200KV among the forums and FB groups. There seems to be a few variables I've narrowed down from those who say they don't have any issues, either

1) they're running only 4s battery
2) most of them are running smaller tires. I'm running Arrma Backflips, which have diameter of 6.8 inches, and others are running Proline Badlands which are only 5.85 inches in diameter. Stock tires are 6.5 inches This makes a huge difference in claculations, like gearing down a couple of teeth on the Pinion. One guy is reporting he's fine on 50/19 gearing and Badlands, but ambient temperature is pretty low.
3) Terrain. Most of my play areas are grassy fields here in FL, the grass gets very thick, like your foot sinks into it, even when it's mowed. This puts a lot of load on they motor/esc, and coupled with large grippy tires, I think that may be the primary factor now. I may have to get smaller tires, or go down to 12 or 13T pinion vs. current 15T

I spent a lot of time playing with this online calculator, and it seems the only way to get everything in their recommended green spec is to go with less than 6s battery, or all the way down to 1800KV motor. I have my eye on Castle 1518, which is the discontinued 1800KV long can that can handle 6s power. No matter how I tweak the pinion and tires, it says that anything above 1800KV motor will be running too high RPM on 6S voltage.

http://www.scriptasylum.com/rc_speed/car_setup.html

I have a 12T pinion to try, if that and the fans doesn't fix it, I'll definitely seek advice from Castle before changing motor or ESC.
 
Higher KV motors require lower voltage batteries, lower KV motors require higher voltage to do the same thing. However....the stock Kraton is advertised as a 60mph 6S Vehicle. To get those speeds, you have to run it hot on 6S. It's a speed run, you shut down after you get your full speed. Heat isn't an issue because you shut down after a few passes so a high KV is great for that. . If you look at the stock motor of a Kraton, it has the perfect motor for bashing on 5S and even 4S. But still can get a speed run in running hot on 6S. A 2200kv is a hotter motor than stock... great for speed runs. But it's a 4S full run motor. If you want to run 6S for full packs on a Kraton with good temps and no bandaids. (Fan). I can recommend a Leopard 1480Kv on a 19 tooth, mamba monster x and a high C rated Lipo. You can add a motor fan only because of how long it will run for on 6S. You will find that your Lipo, ESC and motor run very efficiently and within good temp ranges. The setup produces enough torque for a rather hefty Kraton. Speed runs are another story, I don't care about them. Bashing is about run times, reasonable speed, good torque and cool temps. 6S setups get some long run times with a 1480kv and a 5400 MaxAmp battery. Speed is 52mph on 20/50 and 57 mph on 21/50. I run mostly on a 19 tooth, it's plenty for bashing.
 
Last edited:
Great info Vanning! And I agree on the C rating for batteries. I am looking at no less than a 75C rated batteries/ batteries. Like he said, going to have to run fans on the motor to help keep it cooler. I hope the op can get his issue figured out.
 
The higher the C, the lower the amps because the voltage tends to not sag with a high C rating. This tends to keep stuff a bit cooler also. But at the same time, the higher voltage batteries don't require as much discharge rating. I look at it as.... lower internal resistance is always a good thing. I do notice lots of initial punch with a high quality battery and lower amps on a data logger. I'll have to run my setup and pull some numbers out of it. I have not seen a decent weather day in months where I also have a running Kraton. Now I have a running Kraton and it's been raining and cold for a month.
 
Isn't that the luck? Haha bummer.
I was data logging with Joe from castle and he was saying that higher C batteries would def help my setup. I was running about 11-15% ripple if I remember right. I have since soldered on a second cap pack which helped, but not completely. I need to pull the trigger on better batteries soon.
 
Timing is a step lower than default, punch is 50%, and my throttle curve starts out flatter and ramps up.

As far as battery C, all you need is enough to support the peak amps pulled by your system. I'm seeing about 180 peak amps in my last data log with 28 average. To calculate what C battery you need, the formula goes like this (mah x C)/1000 = amps.

So I have 5200mah batteries with 45C rating (5200 x 45)/1000 = 234 - should be more than enough for the peak amps I'm pulling.
I saw no difference when running my old E-Revo on MaxAmps 100C batteries vs. Floureon 35C batteries. I could buy 5 pairs of the Floureon for what one pair of MaxAmps costs. My Floureon are (5500mah x 35c) / 1000 = 192.5 - this is marginally acceptable, and probably why Arrma says minimum 35C battery required.

My end goal would be to bash 2 sets of batteries within about an hour (roughly 20 min run time per set), and hopefully break nothing! I would agree that fans are a bit of a Band-Aid, but I have the Outcast side guards, mud guards, and body Velcro to the sides to keep dirt out, so I think more air flow is required. I cut out a hole in the windshield and front grille nitro cooling style, and didn't seem to change much. 7000rpm stock fans vs. 24000rpm WTF is a big difference! In the end, I'd like to use the motor fan only as extra insurance, but motor temp should be acceptable without it. ESC overheating and shutting down is the main problem right now though.

Ripple - I have the Castle cap pack installed, and my ripple average is well below 10% generally acceptable threshold (roughly 2.2v on 6s), more like 5% average but it does have burst spikes above 3v of ripple.
 
Timing is a step lower than default, punch is 50%, and my throttle curve starts out flatter and ramps up.

As far as battery C, all you need is enough to support the peak amps pulled by your system. I'm seeing about 180 peak amps in my last data log with 28 average. To calculate what C battery you need, the formula goes like this (mah x C)/1000 = amps.

So I have 5200mah batteries with 45C rating (5200 x 45)/1000 = 234 - should be more than enough for the peak amps I'm pulling.
I saw no difference when running my old E-Revo on MaxAmps 100C batteries vs. Floureon 35C batteries. I could buy 5 pairs of the Floureon for what one pair of MaxAmps costs. My Floureon are (5500mah x 35c) / 1000 = 192.5 - this is marginally acceptable, and probably why Arrma says minimum 35C battery required.

My end goal would be to bash 2 sets of batteries within about an hour (roughly 20 min run time per set), and hopefully break nothing! I would agree that fans are a bit of a Band-Aid, but I have the Outcast side guards, mud guards, and body Velcro to the sides to keep dirt out, so I think more air flow is required. I cut out a hole in the windshield and front grille nitro cooling style, and didn't seem to change much. 7000rpm stock fans vs. 24000rpm WTF is a big difference! In the end, I'd like to use the motor fan only as extra insurance, but motor temp should be acceptable without it. ESC overheating and shutting down is the main problem right now though.

Ripple - I have the Castle cap pack installed, and my ripple average is well below 10% generally acceptable threshold (roughly 2.2v on 6s), more like 5% average but it does have burst spikes above 3v of ripple.
Its a tough problem man. I was having the same issue while in my Nero, which I contributed to weight. Since being in the Kraton, I haven't had thermal shutdown issues, tho the esc has gotten pretty hot on occasion. I just got the motor fan for extra insurance. And replaced my esc fan because stocker was making a weird noise. I'm actually running Floureon 6000 mAh 40C batteries atm. I don't find them that impressive, even for the price. They get hot and tend to balloon up slightly, and one pack out of 3 has even gone bad in under a year, wouldn't charge. Hope you can fix the issue bud. Sucks having esc/ motor issues, I've been there.
 
Higher C usually have lower internal resistance. As the pack gets older, if you start with low resistance, you will have a longer lasting battery. More cycles.

However.... you only need enough for your system to run properly.

Funny thing is.... I've had low C rated batteries have very low internal resistance. Sometimes you get good ones, sometimes they are turds. Some brands are more consistent.

I run a Lipo alarm usually to catch a cell dropping early.

I've had really good luck with Turnigy batteries. At the moment I'm testing a MaxAmps 6S 120C. The only good thing so far is the size per mah on the Maxamps . I have not had enough time to use it very often. Hopefully soon.
 
Last edited:
Higher C usually have lower internal resistance. As the pack gets older, if you start with low resistance, you will have a longer lasting battery. More cycles.

However.... you only need enough for your system to run properly.

Funny thing is.... I've had low C rated batteries have very low internal resistance. Sometimes you get good ones, sometimes they are turds. Some brands are more consistent.

I run a Lipo alarm usually to catch a cell dropping early.

I've had really good luck with Turnigy batteries. At the moment I'm testing a MaxAmps 6S 120C. The only good thing so far is the size per mah on the Maxamps . I have not had enough time to use it very often. Hopefully soon.

The Nero was my first electric 6S, which is no longer. Got the Kraton instead and transplanted the motor/ esc. I wish I had known about some of the info before, such as batteries and C ratings. I would have gone higher C right off the bat and avoided a few issues. But live and learn. I am going Hobbystar next, either 75 or 100 C depending on pack size, 7600 or 8000.
 
Old Thread: Hello . There have been no replies in this thread for 90 days.
Content in this thread may no longer be relevant.
Perhaps it would be better to start a new thread instead.
Back
Top