Motor torque question 🤔

[BashingBrian]

This must have been asked before (sorry) but what can size has more torque on equal sized KV's a 4092 or 4585 ??

 

[Sandracer_NL]

Power is all about Watt (W). Same motor, e.g. 4074, can have different power across brands I’d check the specs of the motor and get the one with most Watt.

 

[BashingBrian]

Certainly not saying you're wrong but, that means allegedly a Spektrum 4074 has more power than a TpPower of the same size..

 

[Sandracer_NL]

Certainly not saying you're wrong but, that means allegedly a Spektrum 4074 has more power than a TpPower of the same size..

A TP4040 has max power of 4200W. The Hobbywing (Arrma is a rebranded version of this) 4074 has max power of 2600W.

A TP4060 (4092 in size) has max power of 3050W with max of 6200w.
A Leopard 4092 has 2600W and 4200W burst.
And Leopard motors > Arrma stock motors.

 

[Moirae]

Spektrum be lying.

 

[K-BASH]

I've surpassed max wattage for about every tp I've owned.had a tp4050 that would put out over 8000w....5000w motor. Quality,power,longevity is worth spending extra 50$.I've had over 15 tp,it's all I'll buy.

 

[Hector_Fisher]

Torque or power? Those aren't necessarily related. A low kv motor could be torquey but have low max power, whereas another motor could be less torquey, but have a higher max power due to a higher amperage rating.

For the same can size, torque will depend on quality of components (magnets, wiring, etc) and rotor size, to which I'd say TP probably has the advantage. Power wise, it could be a toss up. Given both these motors running on the same voltage, both could theoretically run the same amperage and put out the same power, one just might run hotter than the other.

 

[BashingBrian]

A TP4040 has max power of 4200W. The Hobbywing (Arrma is a rebranded version of this) 4074 has max power of 2600W.

According to Arrma's website the Firma 2050kv motor makes 5050w scroll to the lower part of the page for the spec's, it's also a 1900kv and heavier in weight than the equivalent TP motor..

https://www.arrma-rc.com/en/product/firma-2050kv-brushless-motor/SPMXSM1700.html

 

[Adiabatic]

What exactly do you mean by most torque? Highest peak rotational force generated at any point in the RPM range? Torque curve with the sharpest rise from zero, giving the strongest launch off the line, but not necessarily the highest peak? I wish there wasn't so much confusion between the technical and colloquial understanding of the word as it might make these questions clearer.

 

[Hector_Fisher]

What exactly do you mean by most torque? Highest peak rotational force generated at any point in the RPM range? Torque curve with the sharpest rise from zero, giving the strongest launch off the line, but not necessarily the highest peak? I wish there wasn't so much confusion between the technical and colloquial understanding of the word as it might make these questions clearer.

I think the term is the same across the two camps, but sometimes without the understand that torque influences power and is specific to a moment in time, not a broad spec for all the motor. As far as to power there isnt necessarily a proportional relationship.

OP asked about torque, but the discussion has been about power.

 

[Sandracer_NL]

According to Arrma's website the Firma 2050kv motor makes 5050w scroll to the lower part of the page for the spec's, it's also a 1900kv and heavier in weight than the equivalent TP motor..

https://www.arrma-rc.com/en/product/firma-2050kv-brushless-motor/SPMXSM1700.html

That would mean the Firma 2050kv is almost as powerful as a 4985 with 5700W….
I think it’s safe to assume that 5050W is a wee bit, ehm ‘optimistic’.

 

[BashingBrian]

What exactly do you mean by most torque? Highest peak rotational force generated at any point in the RPM range? Torque curve with the sharpest rise from zero, giving the strongest launch off the line, but not necessarily the highest peak? I wish there wasn't so much confusion between the technical and colloquial understanding of the word as it might make these questions clearer.

I think the term is the same across the two camps, but sometimes without the understand that torque influences power and is specific to a moment in time, not a broad spec for all the motor. As far as to power there isnt necessarily a proportional relationship.

OP asked about torque, but the discussion has been about power.

My original question may have been worded badly to some.
Example.. I know a 4985 can size has more torque than lets say a 4078 can but the two can sizes I chose above are very popular motor sizes for upgrades and I'm curious as to which is better ?? Obviously if space is a constant then you would choose the one that fits best for your application.

Hobbywing use the 4985 can in their Max6 Combo and not a 4092, there must be a reason for that ??
Quite a few of my motor upgrades are 4092 can size (TpPower) as an example don't really use the 45 or 49 can size (their motors just get longer..)

 

[Moirae]

My original question may have been worded badly to some.
Example.. I know a 4985 can size has more torque than lets say a 4078 can but the two can sizes I chose above are very popular motor sizes for upgrades and I'm curious as to which is better ?? Obviously if space is a constant then you would choose the one that fits best for your application.

Hobbywing use the 4985 can in their Max6 Combo and not a 4092, there must be a reason for that ??
Quite a few of my motor upgrades are 4092 can size (TpPower) as an example don't really use the 45 or 49 can size (their motors just get longer..)

I wondered about this too. I want to believe a TP 4060 is better than a ezrun 4985. I know for sure the tp 4070 is better, no contest. Funny enough, wifey typhon had a tp 4060 1750kv + a max 6. I ended up swapping out the tp motor because she didn't like how loud it was. I put in the ezrun 4985 and had them geared similarly and asked her what she thought. She thought the typhon didn't accelerate as fast with the 4985 compared to the TP 4060. She liked the noise difference though

It's very weird as I kind of think the castle 1717 is better than a tp 4060 but I have no proof lol. It for sure runs cooler though.

 

[BashingBrian]

The issue with TP's, and it's really not an issue is it's just more complicated because TP offer wye and delta winds, so in some cases you're better off with certain wind motors..
All of my TP's are wye except for the one in my O8s that's a delta wind..!!
I must admit the hardest part I find is gearing them because they have so much power and get quite hot.. They are definitely more robust than most, I got my 4040 1580kv upto 235 degrees..!! and it survived to live and bash again.. ( Don't advise doing that though, it was my own user error and carelessness just happy it survived )

 

[LibertyMKiii]

I believe this video gets to the heart of what your original question is about.
You are looking to understand the relationship between the motor's power/torque and the can size.

This video includes the math to help you determine just that.

 

[Hector_Fisher]

My original question may have been worded badly to some.
Example.. I know a 4985 can size has more torque than lets say a 4078 can but the two can sizes I chose above are very popular motor sizes for upgrades and I'm curious as to which is better ?? Obviously if space is a constant then you would choose the one that fits best for your application.

Hobbywing use the 4985 can in their Max6 Combo and not a 4092, there must be a reason for that ??
Quite a few of my motor upgrades are 4092 can size (TpPower) as an example don't really use the 45 or 49 can size (their motors just get longer..)

I'm not sure if hobbywing makes it own motors? I always thought the difference was that hobbywing makes it's own motors, including the 4985 size, and the surpass/rocket/hobbystar brands make their sizes (including the 4092), but i'm not 100% positive on that.

Comparing the 4585 and 4092, i think there are trade offs. I think the 4585 will have the ability to produce a higher possible max torque, but the 4092 is longer and would likely be easier to cool off so you could run higher amperage in it. The 4585 motors generally have a lower power rating, which is usually due to amperage rating. So i would guess the 4585 runs hotter and can't sustain that high torque for very long. The 4985 would be similar to the 4585, but even more instantaneous torque!

So to answer your question "which is better?": it depends on what you want to do! In a kraton, the 4585 would probably feel "snappier" (almost like you upped your punch settings) but would get hotter. The 4092 would probably do better at for longer bash sessions and for being cooled. My 2 cents!

 

[BashingBrian]

@LibertyMKiii
That was mega helpful but at the same time confusing

 

[LibertyMKiii]

@LibertyMKiii
That was mega helpful but at the same time confusing

Long story made short, it is just what she said..... Bigger is always better.

 

[BashingBrian]

I have since watched more of his videos, and he's got a lot of interesting stuff on his channel..!!

So after my recent education I think this will be my next motor, longer is better https://tppower.de/epages/bd5f179c-...9-bbe0-e825a2cc9e1a/Products/TP4070_1520KVs5f

 

[ArrmaFreek2022]

I've surpassed max wattage for about every tp I've owned.had a tp4050 that would put out over 8000w....5000w motor. Quality,power,longevity is worth spending extra 50$.I've had over 15 tp,it's all I'll buy

K-Bash, hey man. Posted a few inquiries about a TP4040 motor I'm trying to use on speed runs but a few people telling me it will burn the MMX8S ESC. Its a 3770 and I wanna run it on a hmmmm say Talion. What are you thoughts?