Kraton My Kraton - Some Questions..

[Herrsavage]

So I got my V4 Kraton in June, and so far so good. However, I am wondering about the future...

As a bit of background, I have a whole race set up RC8T CE, along with a nitro RC8B buggy and SC8, and also two MT4 G3's. Then a DM-1, a couple of Tamiya TRX801Ts, a bunch of 18th scale cars, etc.. With tons of spares for all of the above. And importantly, all five of those cars - AE + MT4 G3s - use the same diffs(at least internally..)

I have mostly been using my Kraton for 6S speed runs on pavement. I do like jumping, but good spots are hard to find, and part availability and pricing sucks, and I don't want to get involved with big repair costs, having to order from another continent, etc..

So far I have a POS bumper and alu chassis braces. What I am wondering is, what spares should I have on hand? I like having diffs, but man I don't want to pay 50 bucks per diff(say one F/R, one center..) Then pinions, for god knows what they cost... I don't mind buying a set of arms, or other minor plastic stuff. But the drivetrain stuff is expensive.. This is my first 6S car - and yes I do like the 6S... - but I am getting worried about wear and tear...

What is a good price for a diff, and where to get them? I am in Germany, but have contacts in the US I could have stuff sent to. Then they would send it to me.

I have recently mangled a couple motor pinions, because they were coming loose(despite threadlock..) This is basically what has me worried about other wear and destruction to come..

The next thing I am wondering about is the chassis. It is quite thin. But I do NOT want to pay €100+ for an upgrade. But then the stock chassis costs that much. Is the only option M2C? They are way too massively overpriced IMO... Yeah, I don't jump much now, but that could change..

I used to have a couple LST2s(still have one..), and used to buy lots of spares(still have lots..) from Jennys for ex on ebay, and prices were decent. But Kraton stuff I find, at least here in Germany, is stupid expensive.. Thanks to Horizon no doubt..

Anyway, I'm just getting nervous that this truck will turn into a bigger money pit than I want to deal with. I have a garage full of RC stuff, including about 8-9 8th scale RCs, with tons of spares(multiple engines, pipes, clutches, boxes of tires, etc etc...), plus planes, quads, etc.. So I'm not going to spend 100s upgrading this Kraton, or stocking up on spares for it. And the EXB makes things kind of dumb for V4 owners IMO. No point in having both trucks, as so little crosses over - realisitically...(Nobody's going to put EXB bits part by part on a V4, when it just makes sense to buy a whole new EXB. And it makes little sense to put V4 stuff on an EXB.. So the EXB coming out IMO kind of kills the V4... Unless part pricing goes way down...)

I really like the Kraton, but due to the spares situation, I kind of feel like I really ought to sell it, and just get another used MT4 G3. I have tons of spares for them, and I like the way they drive.- and their toughness.. Realistically I'm not going to sell the Kraton though, but I know I'll end up breaking something - maybe a diff.. - and instead of having to dump 100+ bucks into it, I'll probably just end up selling it for a huge loss for parts... I know I really ought to sell it now, but I don't want to... Anyway, just thinking out loud, and this has all turned kind of babbly... Any input appreciated... For ex. what's a good price for a good new diff? I might post a WTB thread in the classifieds....

 

[nino]

Uhhh, I think it's your decision

Running on the street you won't be breaking much except maybe diffs or wearing out driveshafts and cups. Get a F/R and center set from Jennys or Ron's RC (Graz, AT, he's here on the forum) and you're good.

BTW I've swapped the pinion a couple of times and never had it come off in 60+ packs, cheap Hobbyking threadlock and stock Arrma pinions.

 

[Nineball]

I just got a 6s myself, and I'm wondering the same thing.

What's the weak point in the diffs? Is it the pinion/ring gears or the internals? Individual parts are a lot cheaper than whole assemblies, and the parts are easier to find in stock right now.

 

[nino]

Usually internals - diff sun gears or outdrive pins that they sit on. But with reasonable driving, they're not that bad. I only ever broke one pin I think.

 

[Herrsavage]

Also using cheap HK threadlock..

I always preferred getting a whole complete diff - because you used to be able to for 30 bucks or less from the likes of Jennys... 50 though is a different story.. Then you start thinking about things differently.. So what is a decent price for a complete new diff?

I was worried my SG would have been mangled, but I think it's OK. The pinion which came off yesterday was completely mangled...

I was running a Tamiya TRX801XT converted to electric with an MT4 G3 power system, only on 4S, for several years, pretty much only blasting up and down the street and gravel roads, over grass, etc.., and eventually parts started failing for which you just couldn't get replacements. So I had to retire that truck. Which was one of the factors which made me want to get a Kraton.. I wanted one several years ago when they were still decently priced/not yet taken over by Horizon, but have been more into flying the last few years.. During the corona downtime I got back into cars - ran the nitros etc.., but wanted to finally see what 6S was all about, so treated myself to a Kraton.. It's a great truck - so far, but the Horizon availability and pricing situation is crap IMO.. Horizon is such a scumbag company..

 

[Herrsavage]

Just checked Rons RC. WAY too expensive - €58 before shipping for one diff... That ain't gonna' happen. Maybe half that...

Maybe I should just hope that the intro of the EXB so totally bottoms out the market for V4s, that I just buy a spare V4 roller down the road, to keep mine up and running...

When I got my first LST2 in 2006 it was close to €600 - so more than a Kraton. Yet parts were half the price from chop shops.. These new chop shops must be looking to make a pretty fat profit.. Or there just aren't as many people running these trucks... I guess the latter is a factor too. Shame.. €60+ for a diff is just ridiculous...

 

[Sandracer_NL]

So if I understand you have not yet ran into major costs but are worried about the future? I also started RC this year and I think you worry too much. Run it until something breaks, maybe it will last a lot longer than you think, Kraton/Arrma is tough. You can always sell it after that. Personally I don’t have backup diffs, I will see when they need replacement and go from there. Another option is to run it on 4s that should increase the lifespan of your drivetrain etc compared to 6s.
I like to compare it with cars, the more performance (6s is pretty powerfull!) you want the more expensive the parts; parts of my BMW are way way way more expensive than the Fiat 500. And although the misses likes the 500 and it is a pretty fun car to drive, the bimmer is in a another league. Same with your 6s Kraton IMO.

 

[Herrsavage]

Of course I'm worried about the future. Specifically, I don't like having a part break and then not having it on hand, or being able to get it within 1-3 days max. I have been into RC intensively since '05 - Savages, LST2s, truggies, etc.. I always have lots of spares. But I guess what is bugging me is finding out that you cannot stockpile them for the Kraton for sensible prices, like I always have done with my all my other cars..

Yes, 6S causes more wear and tear, but the parts are the same whether you run 4S or 6S. There's no reason there that a Kraton diff should cost twice what an LST2 or RC8T diff used to. I have been running 4S in my MT4 G3 and Tamiyas for 5+ years, and it was finally time to move up to 6S. And it is a big difference. I ran both my second MT4, on 4S, and my Kraton on 6S the last two days. The adrenaline kick on 6S is significantly bigger. 4S feels like slow motion afterwards...

Actually, about 4-5 years ago I bought a 5S 4200 lipo for my MT4 G3, but never bothered with it.. Til a couple months ago. Well that MT4 G3 on 5S is about as fast as the Kraton on 6S - and I trust it more in terms of durability.. AND I have parts for it...

I know RC cars pretty well. They are a money pit. I knew this in theory going in getting this Kraton. I guess now I am must confronted with the reality of it.. And it's a bit worse than I expected. I put this down to Horizon for the most part.. €60 for a diff is just retarded.... I guess I had just assumed that you could still get stuff from chop shops for decent prices.. You could back 4-5 years ago when I last really considered getting one.. (pre-Horizon..) Not now though apparently.. Which sucks.

And the release of the EXB just further kind of screws up the situation. IMO they are basically two separate part lines, so that can't be good for V4 parts in the future...

And availability in Germany, aside from pricing, is shxx from what I have seen so far... So yeah, I don't want a blown diff to put me out of commission for a month while I wait for a diff to get here from god knows where..

 

[Herrsavage]

I just got a 6s myself, and I'm wondering the same thing.

What's the weak point in the diffs? Is it the pinion/ring gears or the internals? Individual parts are a lot cheaper than whole assemblies, and the parts are easier to find in stock right now.

I think you might be right. I have seen part bags just for the internal gears etc.. for like €13.. Still, it would be nice to have a complete diff with outdrives etc.. Especially since I am running 6S... Then if I have to replace something on a diff, I can replace the whole diff and save any other bits from the original diff as backups.. That's how I would prefer to proceed. As opposed to nickel and diming every little worn out part.. But given the prices for complete diffs, I guess I won't have a choice..

 

[braap91]

Chassis braces are a must. I ran mine with the stock braces too long and mangled the chassis. I was able to bend it back a few times but ended up biting the bullet for the M2C...no issues there since then. BIG Yes on the diff parts...thats been the area I have had to put the most work into but expected with the amount of power and abuse we put them through. Internal parts for the most part although the last time I had spun the outdrive collar out of the plastic. Went with all metal Arrma diff cups since then and with the extra cups and internals on hand I was able to put together a few backups.

 

[Isnips1985]

I think your concern with V4 parts is misguided. Its not just the EXB that uses these parts. I got my Kraton a few months back and my mate got a Typhon and all of the diff internals, and casing are the same. Its just the number of teeth that differ and this appears to be the same pretty much across the 6S range. Considering the overall price of the car, an entire assembled diff for €58 should't be that suprising? I managed to bag a pair of diffs for £90 off Facebook and did what others have mentioned and done a straight swap when needed. Tidied up the broken one, fixed it and is now sat ready and waiting. There are a number of Arrma groups on Facebook that if you keep an eye out, will find a good deal. Ron's even got one that people sell their parts on.

 

[Herrsavage]

Well I disagree. €50+ is too much for a diff. I have multiple RC8T, RC8, MT4 G3, and LST2 diffs I got for €35 or less. But that was 5+ years ago. I guess the RC car scene has changed. Horizon certainly has, for the worse. It's also just relative - I have a garage full of RC stuff, so €100+ for a pair of backup diffs for one of my 10 RC cars just in case ain't gonna' happen. I spent €75 yesterday just ordering 5 pinions... At least they work in multiple cars though.. Unlike a €60+(with shipping) Kraton diff would.. I'm looking at the big picture. I know what I should do - sell the Kraton now. But I won't.. Then a diff will go next week or something.., and I'll be down for a month waiting for parts, finding the time to tear the truck down and fix it, etc... At that point maybe I'll sell it.. Maybe I should seriously consider trading it for an MT4 G3.. In my case that would make sense. Such a hassle though..

And I'm not sure you understood my point about the EXB. Nobody is going to mix parts really between the EXB and the V4..(not sure about the current situation with the EXB having crappy diffs though... But that just makes demand for V4 diffs go up, while not adding to the supply..) At least I wouldn't... The presence of the EXB just means less part availability for V4s afaic. And if you have an EXB, well yeah, you'll be paying top dollar for EXB parts.., because the stuff for Kratons, Outcasts, etc.. is essentially a different part pool, making the EXB part pool small. I.e. start adding up what it would cost to convert your V4 to EXB and it really doesn't make sense. And conversely, who' going to put V4 parts on an EXB? (The freebie-prostitutes on Youtube seem to have their EXBs even modded up with yet more overpriced M2C stuff.. ) Why pay 500 bucks to convert an old truck to EXB, when you can spend 500 bucks to just have a brand new EXB? Then you have two trucks, with basically two part pools.. I.e., in a way, the V4 doesn't make sense.. Unfortunately.

Or, the solution is to just buy a second V4 as a parts donor.. But not looking to do that either..

Maybe 5-10 years ago there were just that many more people into 8th scale offroad bashing, so there was more availability. But now it seems like maybe fewer people are into it, so availability is lower, making prices higher.. I don't know.. Sucks though if you want to stock up on parts... I quit 8th scale offroad racing (and to a large extent cars altogether..) because it was such a giant money pit.. I kind of dove into this Kraton after the corona downtime hoping it wouldn't be quite that bad. Well, it is... I shoulda' known...

BTW, an M2C chassis costs €160, before shipping. Speaking of total money pits...

ps - I used to be pretty active at RCtech. About five years ago somebody started a thread "Kraton vs. Tekno" or something like that. Back then a Kraton here was like €430(and chop shop prices were much lower.. Now they are extortionate afaic.. As is Horizon with the price of a new Kraton nearing €600, afte the recent price hike..), AussieRCplayground's videos showed it was pretty good, and I was of the opinion that it was a better buy - for me - than spending nearly double that for a tricked out Tekno.

Well now I'm not so sure. Because I would have more confidence that a Tekno wouldn't break, AND now knowing what Kraton part availability and price is like.. It's a much different comparison given the current pricing for Kraton stuff. Though my main argument against Tekno, that they have only one distributor afaik in Germany, still holds though.. I'm not going to spend hundreds on a toy car and be at the mercy of one single retailer... As it turns out now though, Horizon is barely better in that regard. That also was very different five years ago...

 

[Isnips1985]

I don't believe that the EXB will make V4 parts harder to find. From what i've seen or heard there is any part of the EXB that is matched or better than aftermarket part from RPM or M2C and the like. Why wouldn't you mix EXB and stock parts? If i had an EXB then puttingV4 parts in would be a shame but your going the other way. When a part breaks i have the choice of aftermarket, stock V4 or EXB. More options is surely better.

Again, the diffs on a Kraton 6S are exactly the same as the Typhon, Talion, Outcast, etc... the only difference is the main diff gear.

If your main concern is waiting for parts to arrive then yes, you would be better getting a roller as a back up for easy swap outs. If your not happy with the price and availability of parts, then perhaps you are best doing some local research for a brand or car that does, and swich to that?

 

[Herrsavage]

Unfortunatley, I think you are right there. The Horizon situation has changed pretty drastically, for the worse.. Before I got the Kraton I picked up a good condition MT4 G3 for €230.. I still have a bunch of parts for them, and they are pretty easy to find here. They are very reliable too. Though to be fair, I've never run one on 6S.. Though as I mentioned, on 5S with a 16t pinion, mine's about as fast as my Kraton with a 14t pinion on 6S..

The Kraton unfortunately is the one-off unicorn in my garage, next to two MT4 G3s, and a fleet of Associateds...

I think Horizon has just screwed up the deal with the Kraton, which used to be a fairly budget type of car, with good availability(both new and e-bay/chop shops..) Now it's a premium cost, hard to get type thing, and there are no good chop shops to stock up on parts from, the way there used to be for all my other cars..

I just like having spares on hand instead of having to rush and buy nickel and dime parts in case something breaks..

Lot of V4s going on ebay here since the EXB came out...

 

[Herrsavage]

Well a sort of compromise solution finally occurred to me - gear up, lipo down... I tried my V4 on 4S today with the 15t pinion, and it was still good enough to keep me interested..(with the stock 12t pinion it was flat out lame on 4S...) I'm willing to sacrifice the speed vs 6S but get more life out of my diffs/truck.

How high can I go on the pinion though for more speed? For all around, but mostly pavement.../nothing to prove.

BTW, had a rear diff go out on one of my two MT4 G3s (the used one I bought.. Mine has been fine for longer than I can remember - at least 3-4 years..) Went and rummaged around and found tons of brand new diffs, gear sets, used diff parts etc.. All from my earlier days of stocking up on AE RC8T/SC8/RC8B and MT4 G3 parts. And all those cars share diffs basically... Sucks there isn't more of that. Though I guess if you had a bunch of Arrma cars that might apply... Anyway, I hate changing diffs - filthy job... But I was chuffed that I did it with stuff I already had laying around...

 

[Herrsavage]

I think I might post in the classified section here, and try to pick up a spare F/R diff, and a center diff. What would be a good price for those, and what else should I pick up? Again, really don't care for the spare part availability and price over here..