My MIP drivers suck, are there better options?

[Heliguy]

The hardware is the some of the best you can get as a normal person. I had the same question and did some research into it.

https://www.arrmaforum.com/threads/jerolds-limitless-build.49292/#post-704159

Synopsis
The screws are generally 10.9 hardness, which is the second highest. They could get 12.9 hardness but they are less ductile and will break easier. So this might be a trade off or toughness vs hardness. The problem is the design of flat and button head screws, they have shallow hexes. That combined with Arrma's thread locker fetish makes for a bad combination that leads to some rounded screws. Using socket head screw would better but there isn't enough room for that in all places... and it would look ugly.

It's best to hit any metel to metal screws with some heat before you try to remove them and don't use power tools or ball hexes.

Chinese specs don’t always hit the mark. Everything is always of the ‘highest quality’.

 

[Jerold]

Chinese specs don’t always hit the mark. Everything is always of the ‘highest quality’.

True. But Arrma is an American company and would hope that they do quality testing on components they buy. But maybe I expect too much.

 

[Heliguy]

True. But Arrma is an American company and would hope that they do quality testing on components they buy. But maybe I expect too much.

You’d be surprised. Lots of RC companies are US based getting the majority from China.

 

[Rottster]

I beg to differ, if you have 2 tools from 2 different companies that both see the exact same work and usage and 1 wears out 10 times faster than the other then the tool in question is in fact the issue. If I had to guess we were just the unlucky ones that got the bad ones out of the batch.

I've had two of the same tools, from the same company, wear out at different times.

 

[PeighDay]

Lot of good info here thank you all for sharing. My MiP 2.5 hex drill bit is definitely rounding but my 2.0 is fine. I use them with a small Skil branded electric screw driver for loosening and tightening but never all the way and then switch over to my hand drivers for the final tightening.

I would have to suffice that I didn’t clean the screw heads good enough which caused my rounding. Lesson learned.

 

[Rottster]

Wera, Bondhaus, Wiha, Stahlwille and Knipex all make outstanding tools. This is coming from a guy who owns a 40 year old German made chainsaw (Sachs-Dolmar) that still kicks ass so take it as you will, It's an opinion and biased at that. But the stuff works for me, your mileage may vary. There's also a Canadian company that makes some nice stuff for quick repairs called Picquic.

 

[Warby]

True. But Arrma is an American company and would hope that they do quality testing on components they buy. But maybe I expect too much.

Arrma is a UK company

 

[SrC]

A good chance that it’s crappy hardware.

Highly doubt it’s the MIP tools. My set is over 10 years old and have a ton of use.

A tool is only as good as the hardware.

Good point.
FWIW, all the 6s Arrma rigs come with 12.9 Grade steel fasteners and the 4x4 line come with softer steel 10.9. Look closely at the screws on your rig to see the stamping.
12.9 is the harder steel. I look for this when buying /replacing the screws. Arrma screws seem to be among the best from my experience.
Arrma's supplier is YFS a well known Taiwan fastener company. Be careful when buying replacement screws. Some are really cheap garbage. No stamping on them.

Arrma is a UK company

+1
Arrma was always in the UK. Where the design team is , and testing is done. Then production goes to China in a top secret sourced out company facility. No one knows where or who that company is. A closely regarded secret like many things in China. I tried to find it. Good luck.
Arrma is solely owned buy Horizon Hobby, a US based company. No public contact can be made with Arrma UK. You need to deal with HH exclusively, for Tech support and Warranty
When Hobbico owned Arrma years back (as well as Axial), Dragon Star RC was the outsourced mfr. for these 2 brands. DragonStar actually created the Axial and Arrma models.. Hobbico bought the rights and gave them the Arrma and Axial branding. Including Team Durango, the race kit brand off shoot of Arrma. Can't locate Dragon Star company anymore.
Just some trivia.

 

[SrC]

Regarding stripped hex Driver and screws, if you start out wrenching a brand new rig with MIP or a known new quality set of Hex drivers out the gate, you will probably not strip out anything for quite a while. Remember that Fasteners are consumable parts. If you keep driving worn out/ rusty dirty screws the tips and screws will fail ultimately. Need to have replacement screws on hand. Get the complete set from JennysRC to have available.
Never use the kit included "L" hex wrenches! Toss them. They are garbage. Will ruin the screws quickly.

 

[Rowdyray]

You must be a glutton for punishment. I hate those things.

No, just old school. And they work. Always have. Like I said, clean the heads out.

About a year ago, I bought this thing. It does have hex bits but, doesn't get into everywhere. No complaints. No stripped heads or broken bits.

https://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200760335_200760335

A month ago I broke down and bought a set of Dynamite bits that fit my Hercules 1/4" impact driver. No complaints there either. Not getting any younger.

 

[SrC]

You're coming off as real condescending. I'm not sure how I can screw in a pinion grub screw incorrectly enough to snap a tool tbh. According to you I have abused my tools and its totally my fault the tool snapped from me hand tightening a grub screw.

Stop abusing your tools already!!! Shame on you . The RC gods will haunt you now.
Kidding aside.....
@Moirae knows how to wrench for sure.

 

[Rottster]

Good point.
FWIW, all the 6s Arrma rigs come with 12.9 Grade steel fasteners and the 4x4 line come with softer steel 10.9. Look closely at the screws on your rig to see the stamping.
12.9 is the harder steel. I look for this when buying /replacing the screws. Arrma screws seem to be among the best from my experience.
Arrma's supplier is YFS a well known Taiwan fastener company. Be careful when buying replacement screws. Some are really cheap garbage. No stamping on them.

View attachment 251640

+1
Arrma was always in the UK. Where the design team is , and testing is done. Then production goes to China in a top secret sourced out company facility. No one knows where or who that company is. A closely regarded secret like many things in China. I tried to find it. Good luck.
Arrma is solely owned buy Horizon Hobby, a US based company. No public contact can be made with Arrma UK. You need to deal with HH exclusively, for Tech support and Warranty
When Hobbico owned Arrma years back (as well as Axial), Dragon Star RC was the outsourced mfr. for these 2 brands. DragonStar actually created the Axial and Arrma models.. Hobbico bought the rights and gave them the Arrma and Axial branding. Including Team Durango, the race kit brand off shoot of Arrma. Can't locate Dragon Star company anymore.
Just some trivia.

Just saying, YFS is notorious for garbage hardware, especially in the gunsmithing world. Better than unmarked crap I suppose and you will never find them in the Aerospace/Aircraft industry. Common in cheap AR15 home builds on gas keys.

 

[SrC]

No, just old school. And they work. Always have. Like I said, clean the heads out.

About a year ago, I bought this thing. It does have hex bits but, doesn't get into everywhere. No complaints. No stripped heads or broken bits.

https://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200760335_200760335

A month ago I broke down and bought a set of Dynamite bits that fit my Hercules 1/4" impact driver. No complaints there either. Not getting any younger.

I have a similar set I use for my autos. The hex bits fall out of the driver all the time with constant RC wrenching. Drives me crazy.

Just saying, YFS is notorious for garbage hardware, especially in the gunsmithing world. Better than unmarked crap I suppose and you will never find them in the Aerospace/Aircraft industry. Common in cheap AR15 home builds on gas keys.

I never said YFS was great for anything else. Like Mission critcial stuff. I know firearms well. Love my Glock's and Smith's. I get ya. And aerospace....Not.
But for RC use, YFS is way better than much you will see on most other brands of RC rigs. There are cheaper brands out there. If not stamped with name and grade, 99% of time it is not good stuff.

 

[Rottster]

I have a similar set I use for my autos. The hex bits fall out of the driver all the time with constant RC wrenching. Drives me crazy.

I never said YFS was great for anything else. Like Mission critcial stuff. I know firearms well. Love my Glock's and Smith's. I get ya. And aerospace....Not.
But for RC use, YFS is way better than much you will see on most other brands of RC rigs. There are cheaper brands out there. If not stamped with name and grade, 99% of time it is not good stuff.

Agreed, at least it's stamped, unstamped is total garbage. I could get into what the stamps mean both SAE and metric, but you most likely already know.

 

[21STalion]

...if you start out wrenching a brand new rig with MIP or a known new quality set of Hex drivers out the gate, you will probably not strip out anything for quite a while...
...Never use the kit included "L" hex wrenches! Toss them. They are garbage. Will ruin the screws quickly...

These are good points.

I did just this and bought a complete set of new MIP tools for my brand new car.

Probably disassembled the car 100 times already. Never rounded and no signs of wear.

I'm willing to bet people are doing at least one of three things wrong.

1. Working on dirty fasteners
2. Not sending it all the way home before turning or turning while not straight on
3. Working on already damaged fasteners which allows the tool to slip and round more easily. The screws should stick to the driver with the tight tolerances.

Don't use impact hammer tools either. I start and end every screw by hand and only use the machine for the bulk of the turning. The clutch should only engage if you mess up.

 

[Smilinbri]

Good lord, this thread about a tool is still going?? I use dollar store drivers!!

 

[sumguy75]

Lots of good stuff in this thread. I'm coming away from it all with this:

I might be guilty of not cleaning my screw heads thoroughly and/or reusing screws that should be replaced. I will do a better job making sure they are clean and that I am getting the driver fully seated each time. I also just reordered tons of screws so I have a boatload of spares so I can toss any screws that aren't holding up 100%.

MIP might be guilty of letting a few less than perfect drivers get by quality control. Companies aren't perfect, so this is at least a reasonable possibility. Looks like most responses were fully satisfied MIP owners with a handful having issues like I did.

I decided I would give the MIP one more shot and placed an order for a replacement 2.0 driver. If it lasts, I'll be happy. If I have a similar outcome, I will try some of the other brands mentioned in this thread like Wera, Wiha, etc.

 

[morrjr71]

I use Protek drivers from Amain Hobbies (first link below). I replaced the shafts on my 1.5mm and 2.0mm drivers after two years as a precaution rather than as a necessity. The driver shafts I replaced are still tight in fastener heads: they just don't hold a fastener on to the tool as securely as they did when new. Paying $5.99 for a new shaft (second link) is cheap insurance against rounding fasteners.

https://www.amainhobbies.com/protek-rc-trutorque-sl-metric-hex-driver-set-4-ptk-8416/p863873

https://www.amainhobbies.com/accoun...replacement-tip-2.0mm-ptk-8231/p212312/review

 

[Heliguy]

We already know that material coming from china might have a spec stamped or labeled on the part that doesn’t meet the spec when verifying material with a hardness tester. Don’t just trust Chinese quality claims…

 

[Jerold]

Then production goes to China in a top secret sourced out company facility. No one knows where or who that company is. A closely regarded secret like many things in China. I tried to find it. Good luck.

In the US, if it's made in China it must be labeled as such.

It's not a Chinese thing. There are contract manufacturers all over the world (there are 5 down the street from me) that builds stuff. So it's not really a secret, but it's not typically public info either.

Like where was the computer you are using now built? Maybe it's Malyasia, Mexico, China or the US, but it's probably not a Lenovo building with Lenovo employees? They might design it but building (assembly and test) is typically done outside.