Granite Newby Suggestion for motor Direct swap to brushless

[dazel]

I see this problem on here a lot, and everyone immediately just wants to blame the esc, they go out and get a new esc and they still have the same problem.

That being said I would still ditch the brushed system as most if not all rtr brushed systems are best used as paper weights. I would either go with the 3s BLX system from Jennys like @SrC said or get the Hobbywing Max10 SCT 3660 3200kv combo. Stay away from the Goolrc, Surpass Hobby, or whatever name the seller tosses on their Amazon or eBay cheapo esc they are not good at all. I'm on a Facebook group for the WL Toys 144001 and for some dumb reason everyone gets those Goolrc/Surpass Hobby combos as an "upgrade" from the brushed systems, every day I see post after post of dead and or melted escs. The motors are fine but the escs are pretty bad.

is the Max10 4000kv not a good option for this truck? As I understand it, kv essentially equals rpm (or k= constant and v = volts, for constant speed per volt), so is the theory here keep it low to protect the parts? but isn't lower kv more acceleration and torque? (just trying to wrap my head around this, and options are limited in Canada)

 

[L3phturn]

Ugg. Why is it so hard to post a simple question on forums.
I've mentioned several times I'm getting THROTTLE CUT OUT!

My throttle cuts out and have to turn off and back on again. Everything I've read states this is due to the brushless system. Is it wrong? If it is please explain. Also, I seem to be getting really frustrated, but am just asking for help, so I guess, I get what I get, but please help if you can.

I've posted the 5200 mAh 2S batteries I'm using. Is this NOT right for better batteries?

c'mon guys, only one suggestion thus far, and that's the crème de la crème.

What you said is that you are hitting LVC prematurely, getting short run times, and then asking for a brushless motor/esc recommendation. I answered with questions that might solve the problem. What brand/model batteries? What are you using for a charger? Show me pictures. Check voltage with a voltage checker or on your charger after you bring it back and tell me what the voltage per cell is when it shuts down. I am asking questions because what you report in your post is nothing to do with a brushed or brushless motor. You can throw a pile of money at a brushless setup for both trucks but from what you wrote there is something else wrong. You said you are brand new to the hobby so I don't want to see you go spend hundreds to upgrade both trucks when it isn't necessary and then still have the same problem. If you will just take a minute to respond with exactly what batteries you are using (including brand and C rating) and most importantly what you are using to charge them I will either be able to eliminate a major possible cause or we can identify the real issue. Skip over this and you can spend a bunch of money and still have the same problem.

To answer your question, no, the behavior you are experiencing is NOT due to the brushed motor and ESC in your truck. Giving you a motor & ESC recommendation with what you reported as the problem does not make sense. It's like me reporting that I can only get 300 km range in my car on a tank of fuel before the low fuel warning comes on and then asking for recommendations for a turbo charger. Sorry I'm pissing you off, but I'd rather that than see a new participant to the hobby waste a bunch of money, get frustrated and quit.

 

[slick2500]

is the Max10 4000kv not a good option for this truck? As I understand it, kv essentially equals rpm (or k= constant and v = volts, for constant speed per volt), so is the theory here keep it low to protect the parts? but isn't lower kv more acceleration and torque? (just trying to wrap my head around this, and options are limited in Canada)

You could but I would stick to 2s with that motor for off road use. You will get more top speed out of that motor but it will have less torque. That and the 4000kv is a 3652 sized motor, that is smaller than the stock motor is.

 

[L3phturn]

is the Max10 4000kv not a good option for this truck? As I understand it, kv essentially equals rpm (or k= constant and v = volts, for constant speed per volt), so is the theory here keep it low to protect the parts? but isn't lower kv more acceleration and torque? (just trying to wrap my head around this, and options are limited in Canada)

I"m in Ottawa by the way.

I put a Surpass brushless motor/ESC in the 1/10th 4wd Redcat Volcano we picked up cheap in the spring. It's likely fairly similar to the Granite in size/weight/wheels/tires. A 3,300 seemed a bit too high a KV and it got too hot too quickly. It also went STUPIDLY fast. I burned up a cheap surpass 80A ESC. I should have geared down more. You can gear up or down as needed to make it work, but a good rule of thumb is that the heavier the vehicle is, the lower the KV you should use. If you use too high a KV for the weight, most people will not gear it down enough to compensate (or you can't get a pinion that small) and wind up burning up a motor/ESC due to excess heat. It's much easier to go with a lower KV and then use a bigger pinion as needed for more speed. I would go with a 2,800-3000 KV 3660 motor for it if I did it. It's a bit lower KV than the 3S BLX but I'd rather operate with more torque. On 3S you won't need more speed.

A truck with more torque than needed will run cool, you won't overheat it, and it won't go as crazy fast. With a Granite all you need to do is set your slipper clutch properly and you won't break things from going with more torque. There are some surfaces that require a LOT more torque than you would expect - namely grass. Running on grass kills more motors than anything else in this hobby as people don't realize that it is a high drag surface with high traction and it builds heat in the motor and ESC very quickly. The high traction means that it is easy to break something in the drivetrain if your slipper is set too tight, and few people take the time to set the slipper properly.

If you take the time to learn how to set your gear mesh properly, set your slipper clutch, and clean your brushed motor that Granite is as close to indestructible as an RC truck gets.

 

[dazel]

OK, I've ordered 2 of the Max10 SCT with 3200 kv. Not going to be running 4 or even 3s, only 2S for now. Thinking here is like L3phturn has said, overbuild+underuse = less heat/friction, etc. Then when I'm ready, will upgrade components as they are killed, lol.

I did a comparison of BLX vs mega (latest), on the Arrma Website, and it doesn't seem like there is too much outside of a couple gears, turnbuckles, and motor+ESC+Servo....So I think this is a good starting point, given I'd probably done the same thing had I got the BLX to begin with, I still think I'm better off.

So now for slipper setting, plan is to loosen it quite a bit initially for obvious reasons, but does anyone have a goto starting point for this truck +motor/ESC combo?

Also, thanks to everyone for getting past the opinions quickly and right to the point.....its very much appreciated. (That said, I've already heard it all in research and readings. To be clear, while I'm clearly a noob....I read lots and lots for days before even posting like this, and typically before buying, and have an electrical/mechanical engineering background, so I feel I know enough to be dangerous at this point, lol)

 

[L3phturn]

Oh... and here in Canada I am using Great Hobbies, Amazon, and Banggood. I've gotten some great deals from Banggood but they take 3 weeks to arrive. I've tried AliExpress but that's a bit of a mess and far less reliable.

Best things I've bought other than my Notorious:
DumboRC X6A 2.4G 6CH Transmitter with X6FG Receiver for JJRC Q65 MN-90 RC Vehicles Model
https://banggood.app.link/ZXxJgvZmpcb
KS-3518 Digital Servo 20KG Waterproof 180° Metal Gear Large Torque For RC Robot Arm
https://banggood.app.link/sQvkBa4mpcb
TSKY 120A 1/10 1/8 6v ESC Senseless Brushless/Sense Brushless RC Car Part
https://banggood.app.link/QXqn7Adnpcb

Wow buy two of the servos for $14 each right now? I think I'll grab a couple more. Can't beat that.

If you do want a motor
Racerstar 3660 Motor Brushless Waterproof Sensorless 1/8 1/10 RC Car Part 3800/3300/2600KV
https://banggood.app.link/EmAUoJvnpcb

I would probably go 2600 but you could do 3,300 if you gear it down enough and you aren't running on grass a lot.

OK, I've ordered 2 of the Max10 SCT with 3200 kv. Not going to be running 4 or even 3s, only 2S for now. Thinking here is like L3phturn has said, overbuild+underuse = less heat/friction, etc. Then when I'm ready, will upgrade components as they are killed, lol.

I did a comparison of BLX vs mega (latest), on the Arrma Website, and it doesn't seem like there is too much outside of a couple gears, turnbuckles, and motor+ESC+Servo....So I think this is a good starting point, given I'd probably done the same thing had I got the BLX to begin with, I still think I'm better off.

So now for slipper setting, plan is to loosen it quite a bit initially for obvious reasons, but does anyone have a goto starting point for this truck +motor/ESC combo?

Also, thanks to everyone for getting past the opinions quickly and right to the point.....its very much appreciated. (That said, I've already heard it all in research and readings. To be clear, while I'm clearly a noob....I read lots and lots for days before even posting like this, and typically before buying, and have an electrical/mechanical engineering background, so I feel I know enough to be dangerous at this point, lol)

Those are good ESCs and motors, you shouldn't have a problem as long as you keep an eye on motor temps if you are running on grass. Even on 2S if you gear that too high for the terrain you can get too hot and burn out a motor.

Search how to set your slipper on YouTube. The videos are geared for racers but the general process makes sense. Basically you loosen it until it slips too easily and then tighten it up a 1/4 to a 1/2 turn. Testing on carpet works great as it is so high traction.

 

[dazel]

Yeah, definitely limited here in Canada. Thanks again for your help and suggestions.
lol, as I was writing the earlier post my kids were out with my wife and my daughter busted the steering linkage (ARA340179), lol, and so it begins.

Some of my rules for the kids, and for the reason getting something that will likely result in upgrades:
- If you break it, you help me fix it
- If you want to upgrade, you help me install and configure.

Both to help teach them mechanics and repercussions.

Cheers!

 

[BrokeBoiRc]

I've read numerous posts that the BLX suffers the same fate. That's why I didn't go with it to begin with. Essentially, If I'm going to upgrade anyway, why go with the extra cash for parts I'm likely going to change out. (not considering the upgraded drive train). Part of the purpose was a teaching excersise for the kiddos. If we break something, we learn by replacing it.

Any other suggestions? What about GoolRC, or is the Castle sidewinder or Max10 the best options? what kV? (assuming lower so I don't strip the drivetrain internals)?

Yeah, I'm used to weeding out the reviews too, but thanks as well. At least we're getting somewhere now.


So we are still on the only suggestion being the max10? any others?

Stock blx100 is very good IMO. haven't had any problems and am at very comfortable temperatures running a 20-tooth pinion. I have the hobbywing max10-sct combo and that has been amazing as well. I would go with one of those 2 if I were you. Edit: oops didn't see you already bought the hobbywing lol.

 

[GraniteFox]

I have had a few brushed arrma esc’s and have not had good luck. Mostly overheating not LVC. Make sure the jumpers are correct if you are switching between lipo and nimh. You can pickup a used Trax XL5 on eBay pretty cheap. The ones I have used ran very well. It may just be a bad esc.....if that is the case call Arrma / Horizon and have them replace it. Runtime should not be a problem with a brushed system Running 2s 5000. You should get 20-30 mins. I also agree with the others it could be a number of things causing it.

 

[dazel]

I have had a few brushed arrma esc’s and have not had good luck. Mostly overheating not LVC. Make sure the jumpers are correct if you are switching between lipo and nimh. You can pickup a used Trax XL5 on eBay pretty cheap. The ones I have used ran very well. It may just be a bad esc.....if that is the case call Arrma / Horizon and have them replace it. Runtime should not be a problem with a brushed system Running 2s 5000. You should get 20-30 mins. I also agree with the others it could be a number of things causing it.

Thanks for your input. I'm doubting that both would have the same problem. Yeah, jumpers are being changed accordingly.
Anyways, I have 2 MAX10 SCT's coming, so we'll see how it goes. Hopefully I don't get the cogging issues with them, but that's mainly on increased pinion change outs as far as I can gather.

Cheers!

 

[GraniteFox]

Good system. good luck with it. I completely overhauled a granite mega. Now running the Blx120 3s & 4s with a HW2100kv motor. Nice thing about these arrma units they are easy to work on. Make sure you get the gear mesh correct or its on to different problems. lol

 

[dazel]

For sure, thanks a lot. Was going to use the paper spacing method for that

 

[m_bash]

newer go 3s with MEGA rigs.
Driveline is not made for it at all
2s is fine

BLX rigs got 3s standart.
I believe that V3 3s BLX is best beginner choice. and buy one 3s pack from start.
New bashers will be able to set throttle limits at 50% or 75% until they are ready to use the full speed potential.

If you don't like this hobby, you can sell one BLX always fast away.
These are hot at secondhand market too.

You only need pay 90us more, and you are Future safe from the start.

This can be good info to all other beginners. Think about it twice before you buy one Mega.

Lipo safety thing is important to read about first. Watch videos also.
Only If driver is very young, less than 10years old, then the Mega is great choice with 7.2v Nihm.

My first RC Car =
Believe it or not:
A Nitro actually at 8years old. I build it self, and drive it full speed very well after 10tanks.
Handle everything self, no need help by dad. Only the money thing i did need help with that time from Dad

This RC Hobby is very good hobby.
you go out in nature and have fun,
alot better than video games and computers.

World needs more new Bashers.
You all are welcome to this Awsome , and very fun hobby.

Arrma do great rc cars.

Arrma is always a good choice, no matter if you are total beginner, or professional Basher.
Arrma has it all.

Eat , sleep, Bash. BLAST., repeat.

You will be smart, intelligent better person the more you do this, and read about these Cars.
You learn new things always.
Im learning new things still today, after 20years + in this hobby, and i have own more than 200+ different RC Cars to this date.

Try also RC Boat please, they are also alot fun. I got many big fast RC Boats also today.

Welcome onboard

 

[dazel]

newer go 3s with MEGA rigs.
Driveline is not made for it at all
2s is fine

BLX rigs got 3s standart.
I believe that V3 3s BLX is best beginner choice. and buy one 3s pack from start.
New bashers will be able to set throttle limits at 50% or 75% until they are ready to use the full speed potential.

If you don't like this hobby, you can sell one BLX always fast away.
These are hot at secondhand market too.

You only need pay 90us more, and you are Future safe from the start.

This can be good info to all other beginners. Think about it twice before you buy one Mega.

Lipo safety thing is important to read about first. Watch videos also.
Only If driver is very young, less than 10years old, then the Mega is great choice with 7.2v Nihm.

My first RC Car =
Believe it or not:
A Nitro actually at 8years old. I build it self, and drive it full speed very well after 10tanks.
Handle everything self, no need help by dad. Only the money thing i did need help with that time from Dad

This RC Hobby is very good hobby.
you go out in nature and have fun,
alot better than video games and computers.

World needs more new Bashers.
You all are welcome to this Awsome , and very fun hobby.

Arrma do great rc cars.

Arrma is always a good choice, no matter if you are total beginner, or professional Basher.
Arrma has it all.

Eat , sleep, Bash. BLAST., repeat.

You will be smart, intelligent better person the more you do this, and read about these Cars.
You learn new things always.
Im learning new things still today, after 20years + in this hobby, and i have own more than 200+ different RC Cars to this date.

Try also RC Boat please, they are also alot fun. I got many big fast RC Boats also today.

Welcome onboard

lol, well thanks for that after I've stated I have TWO megas, and why I went with mega to start. anyways, cheers

 

[m_bash]

Hobbywing

Is always great choice

These are safe premium products.

I remember 15-20years back when they start.
They are only cheap china thing back in time.
Only Castle and couple more did decent products that time.

Today Hobbyking is one of the Best brands actually.
You cant go wrong with Hobbywing Products today, i have Hobbyking self in my many latest Cars today.
And i am very happy always whit these Products they sell today, all of them . max10 max8 max6 max5 , Premium awsome products all

 

[L3phturn]

newer go 3s with MEGA rigs.
Driveline is not made for it at all
2s is fine

This is incorrect. The new Mega trucks have the same drivetrain as the 3S trucks. They are built to be a direct ESC and motor swap with the other parts identical to the 3S BLX.

Arrma upgraded the 3S platform and the Mega’s for exactly this reason.

 

[4x4Bash]

This is incorrect. The new Mega trucks have the same drivetrain as the 3S trucks. They are built to be a direct ESC and motor swap with the other parts identical to the 3S BLX.

Arrma upgraded the 3S platform and the Mega’s for exactly this reason.

The brushed v3 could run off 3s with only switching to brushless motor & esc. But I thought the brushed v3 still came with a different pinion pitch and slip assembly/ spur gear.

 

[Exc3l]

The brushed v3 could run off 3s with only switching to brushless motor & esc. But I thought the brushed v3 still came with a different pinion pitch and slip assembly/ spur gear.

It does.

 

[4x4Bash]

Post in thread 'Senton V3 Mega Upgrade' https://www.arrmaforum.com/threads/senton-v3-mega-upgrade.31731/post-438838

I made what I think is a pretty up to date v3 brushed to brushless guide gathering information from all the different posts I could find. If anyone has further suggestions to add lmk.

 

[GraniteFox]

On the new version to convert from mega to blx you would need to replace the spur and slipper, pinion, motor mount, esc, and motor. I guess you could keep the smaller gearing and motor mount but it would strip out quick. It is nice that the input gear and diffs are upgraded. If the blx is $90 more it would be cheaper to just buy a blx. The upgrades are nice compared to V2..sealed bearings, no leaky shocks, hd input gears, no STX2.
Anyone try the cvd units from Arrma? They have been back ordered for some time now.