Limitless Nice To Finally See Someone Speed Running a Max4!!

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Agreed, even if Hobby wing could turn it up a little bit with a special edition speed runner model that would be nice. Even just 400a vs 300a would be a big improvement.

Regarding MGM no one has ever done anything impressive with them and there ard a handful out there that have the money to burn and tried them. Until I see something proving its worth I will never try one.

I keep hearing whispers/rumors of the XLX3 would be a 12s or higher ESC. While that likely would be the next big thing do we really need more power at this point? It seems with the dual 40mm motor setups we can go way past 200 mph and blow the tires off the wheels.
Agree on all fronts...except that last bit. The question of whether or not we "need" more power at this point is definitely justified, particularly in lieu of what has become possible on a mere 4S, to say nothing of 6 or 8S, however....while I perceive the XLX3 rumors on a similar level as the B3 bomber or Project Aurora, I have to say that, if it were indeed what is being rumored, if and when I make forays into the stratospheric speeds beyond 170 or 180mph, I would be more inclined to go with a simpler low KV, high voltage, single motor solution, than a more complex dual motor/dual ESC/dual battery solution, if an affordable 12S system were available. We both know that high voltage systems run more efficiently (the reason why Teslas haul 6 gorillion 18650 or 21700 cells around in their belly) and the lower KV motors should, simply because they weigh not insignificantly more than a high KV motor of the same size (especially the large can motors), produce more torque, again, making the system "better" based on simple physical realities.

Unless the XLX3 is based off some new technology that's just exorbitantly more expensive to produce, a single XLX3 should be less expensive than two XLX2s, and a single motor (with a few exceptions) should be less expensive than two smaller motors and there would be no need to deal with motor sync and other issues simply don't need addressing because the system isn't saddled with the extra complications. Both the 12S and dual motor systems should capable of 200mph+ and blowing the tires off the wheels but one of them, objectively, is just more straight forward. I still see the allure of dual motor setups, precisely because of their complexity. Taming and mastering complex systems is inherently satisfying by its very nature. But I would rather get there on a single motor first and then, even if just for :poop:s and giggles, build a dual motor setup and have another go. The tires are the primary weak link presently, with a few ancillary issues, most of which have by now been addressed by aftermarket upgrades. The tire problem remains however and, from what I've seen/heard/read, part of your tire consumption will be down to the luck of the draw how rough the road that you happened to find for your speed passes is and how much it punishes the tires.

MGM are a total non-starter...unless, like you said, someone with the money to burn comes along and demonstrates that they're the way to go. And even then I'm not sure I could bite the bullet and buy a 1000€ ESC. 200mph+ is possible without them, so...what's to be gained by their use?
 
Agree on all fronts...except that last bit. The question of whether or not we "need" more power at this point is definitely justified, particularly in lieu of what has become possible on a mere 4S, to say nothing of 6 or 8S, however....while I perceive the XLX3 rumors on a similar level as the B3 bomber or Project Aurora, I have to say that, if it were indeed what is being rumored, if and when I make forays into the stratospheric speeds beyond 170 or 180mph, I would be more inclined to go with a simpler low KV, high voltage, single motor solution, than a more complex dual motor/dual ESC/dual battery solution, if an affordable 12S system were available. We both know that high voltage systems run more efficiently (the reason why Teslas haul 6 gorillion 18650 or 21700 cells around in their belly) and the lower KV motors should, simply because they weigh not insignificantly more than a high KV motor of the same size (especially the large can motors), produce more torque, again, making the system "better" based on simple physical realities.

Unless the XLX3 is based off some new technology that's just exorbitantly more expensive to produce, a single XLX3 should be less expensive than two XLX2s, and a single motor (with a few exceptions) should be less expensive than two smaller motors and there would be no need to deal with motor sync and other issues simply don't need addressing because the system isn't saddled with the extra complications. Both the 12S and dual motor systems should capable of 200mph+ and blowing the tires off the wheels but one of them, objectively, is just more straight forward. I still see the allure of dual motor setups, precisely because of their complexity. Taming and mastering complex systems is inherently satisfying by its very nature. But I would rather get there on a single motor first and then, even if just for :poop:s and giggles, build a dual motor setup and have another go. The tires are the primary weak link presently, with a few ancillary issues, most of which have by now been addressed by aftermarket upgrades. The tire problem remains however and, from what I've seen/heard/read, part of your tire consumption will be down to the luck of the draw how rough the road that you happened to find for your speed passes is and how much it punishes the tires.

MGM are a total non-starter...unless, like you said, someone with the money to burn comes along and demonstrates that they're the way to go. And even then I'm not sure I could bite the bullet and buy a 1000€ ESC. 200mph+ is possible without them, so...what's to be gained by their use?

Agreed, On a side note my OCD brain really likes the symmetry of dual-motor cars and how well-balanced the chassis is with them. Other than the servo the car becomes a mirror down the center.
 
Agreed, On a side note my OCD brain really likes the symmetry of dual-motor cars and how well-balanced the chassis is with them. Other than the servo the car becomes a mirror down the center.
Oh I hear that. I have a similar symmetry obsession. However sometimes pragmatism just wins out. As for the servo...just make a dual servo steering setup like you find in some 1/5 scale vehicles in a push/pull arrangement with the servos mounted on the splitter like KT did on his speed build. Problem solved :LOL:
 
I'm totally retarded when it comes to electrical engineering so I really have no frame of reference when it comes to these things so, may I be forgiven for asking retarded questions. Is it really that much of a heavy lift to get from a Max4 that can do 300A continuous to something that can do 400-500A for 5-6 seconds? Drop the nonsensical 2000A peak current that no one needs and focus the "bandwidth" or "powerband" (or however you want to term it) and heat dissipation (as I'm sure this is of primary concern in this sort of use case) down to well below 750A but retain the 12S voltage spec? My totally unqualified gut instinct tells me that it isn't far away from being able to do something around those figures, if not outright. I get it, their focus has been reliability over brute force output. But here's a banal example of HW ESCs being able to do more than their spec sheet says.

The Max6 and Max5 can both be hacked pretty easily to run on 10S & 12S right out of the box. So my speculation is that the controller in the Max4 is possibly/probably just the Max5 core in a bigger enclosure for better heat dissipation. Is the 2000A peak current of the Max4 a spec because that's just what the components happen to be able to handle at max, or is this programmed into the firmware? I presume the latter, so just drop the max ceiling to 750A and reprogram the curve along which the ESC decides to shut down regulated by current over time (I don't know if this is how HW ESCs actually work I'm, again, just speculating).

I know this is just totally non-academic, academic theorizing on something I know nothing about, all of which would hinge on Hobbywing's desire to even play in that arena (and there aren't any signs whatsoever that they do). ESCs are probably way more complicated than I think and my ideas of what to do is, more than likely, hopelessly naive and anyone who actually knows anything about how they work is probably laughing at this...which is fine. I'm just brain-storming (or brain-farting as the case may be). While I've had no reason to need more than what the XLX2 offers, there's just part of me that really wishes there were more of a mainstream battle for the best high performance ESC. Yeah, I've heard the same about MGM and their non-intuitive interface but to me the bigger issue is their price. The ESC I'd get for speed running would be around 936€ plus, because I live in the EU, an additional 21% VAT. That's 1132,56€...for an ESC?! I'm sure they're great and all but dude...that's mental.

I think it's well established that speed runners are but a niche of the RC surface market...but they do tend to consist largely of people willing to pay quite a lot of money for the pursuit of higher speeds and the fact that there is such a burgeoning aftermarket industry and at least one ESC manufacturer who, while not specifically catering to the speed running sector, do produce at least one product that was designed and built with speed runners in mind, speaks to the recognition many manufacturers all the way from the solo entrepreneur to mid-sized outfits, who invest quite a lot into R&D and CNC machining, that this is a profitable "niche" that's worth investing in. I think the speed running scene, more than any other sub-genre of RC cars, has really pushed the development of lipos (or at least of what can be accomplished with existing technologies) over the last 12-24 months with a few of the consumers branching off into development and distribution to better service speed runners and their needs. Don't get it twisted, I'm not saying that there's anything special about that in and of itself as there's an even larger appendage attached to the bashing scene, but the fact that so many products are available that cater to this small group of velocity enthusiasts, does say something as to its disproportionate import. I might be wrong...but that's how I read the tea leaves. YMMV :)
I'm sure everything is "easy" from a technical engineering standpoint. Even select features that are currently brand specific/exclusive (dynamic timing such as "cryo drive", data logging, telemetry) are really rather simple technology that have been around for a long time. I'd argue the "engineering" comes from trying to make these products as cheap as possible so they are financially viable. If the average basher was willing to spend $1000 on an esc, i suspect there would be way more features possible. Regarding amperage or voltage, i'd say it's mostly a change of dimenions -- increase copper amount, increase wire diameter, etc. Easy to do, but can it be done on a consumer viable level?
Agreed, On a side note my OCD brain really likes the symmetry of dual-motor cars and how well-balanced the chassis is with them. Other than the servo the car becomes a mirror down the center.
From a visible perspective, i agree with you ;)

From a technical perspective, i'm confident everything would be better in singles. I'm reminded of dual or triple video cards from yesteryear and how sli or crossfire were "the way" to get more power for a long time. But they never quite got double the power with two, or triple the power with three. And the implementation was always fraught with glitches and hiccups that couldn't be resolved. Thankfully, technological advances in the past years have allowed single GPUs to massively outpace the need for two gpus. Overall, much better.

I'd love to see someone manufacture an extended rotor that penetrates both sides of the motor can for testing, to where you could have inline driven motors, select the desired KV and voltage for your speed, and give it a try. You'd get about as neutrally balance weight wise as possible with the ESC and rx then put on stanchions above the rear or front center driveshafts.
 
I'm sure everything is "easy" from a technical engineering standpoint. Even select features that are currently brand specific/exclusive (dynamic timing such as "cryo drive", data logging, telemetry) are really rather simple technology that have been around for a long time. I'd argue the "engineering" comes from trying to make these products as cheap as possible so they are financially viable. If the average basher was willing to spend $1000 on an esc, i suspect there would be way more features possible. Regarding amperage or voltage, i'd say it's mostly a change of dimenions -- increase copper amount, increase wire diameter, etc. Easy to do, but can it be done on a consumer viable level?

From a visible perspective, i agree with you ;)

From a technical perspective, i'm confident everything would be better in singles. I'm reminded of dual or triple video cards from yesteryear and how sli or crossfire were "the way" to get more power for a long time. But they never quite got double the power with two, or triple the power with three. And the implementation was always fraught with glitches and hiccups that couldn't be resolved. Thankfully, technological advances in the past years have allowed single GPUs to massively outpace the need for two gpus. Overall, much better.

I'd love to see someone manufacture an extended rotor that penetrates both sides of the motor can for testing, to where you could have inline driven motors, select the desired KV and voltage for your speed, and give it a try. You'd get about as neutrally balance weight wise as possible with the ESC and rx then put on stanchions above the rear or front center driveshafts.

Agreed, there is something different about dual motors.
If you have both sides producing 9,500 watts on 4s totaling 19kW it does not add up to the same speed as a single motor on 8s outputting 19kW

1+1 does not = 2 in this scenario. It seems to be more like 1+1 = 1.4

That would be interesting to have a motor as you described.
 
Why is that?
The car on 8S is running on twice the voltage. While the total power might be the same, the translation of that power into RPM and forward motion is still going to be markedly different. The two motors on 4S are still running on 4S at the end of the day.
 
Maybe another analogy would be thinking of 2 turbo diesel 4 cylinders (lower rpm)
Versus a flat plane high rpm V8

Both are ultimately 8 cylinders, but the first one does not have the same high rpm horsepower and the power bands are in different spots.
 
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