Talion Not sure why I'm overheating

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hmm.... maybe the scale on the logs has a multiplier because of number of poles or something? Let me look at that.
Here is a screen shot. This was with 12 tooth pinion, 6s lipo. On the legend it says "2 pole x 1000" Is that a generic log since it doesn't know how many poles I have and I need to divide by 2?

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Oh ok.... It's a 4 pole motor so I think I need to divide by 2... on castle's site: "The Castle 1520-1650KV motor is a 4-POLE 12-SLOT design". Not sure what 12 slot means, or what 1Y means, but 4 poles for sure.

Ok so that means that I need to gear down even farther cuz I'm still only hitting 33,000 rpm on 12t. The 12t looked pretty tight. I'm not sure if an 11 will fit. Rewinding back up to the top where it was suggested that I change the spur. The stock spur looks pretty tight to the bottom.
 
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Data logs aren't always correct.
I was getting 72k rpms running 4s. The readings always varied too much with separate runs. Erroneous no doubt.
Simple math reveals that is not correct.
HW XR8 Plus Sensored combo. 2250kv motor. With HW APP Data logging.
hmm.... maybe the scale on the logs has a multiplier because of number of poles or something? Let me look at that.
Here is a screen shot. This was with 12 tooth pinion, 6s lipo. On the legend it says "2 pole x 1000" Is that a generic log since it doesn't know how many poles I have and I need to divide by 2?

View attachment 210711

Oh ok.... It's a 4 pole motor so I think I need to divide by 2... on castle's site: "The Castle 1520-1650KV motor is a 4-POLE 12-SLOT design". Not sure what 12 slot means, or what 1Y means, but 4 poles for sure.

Ok so that means that I need to gear down even farther cuz I'm still only hitting 33,000 rpm on 12t. The 12t looked pretty tight. I'm not sure if an 11 will fit. Rewinding back up to the top where it was suggested that I change the spur. The stock spur looks pretty tight to the bottom.
The # of Poles is what matters for accurate RPM readings. As witnessed by my BLX SkyRC Motor Analyzer.
# of Slots and Wind Type (1Y) is insignificant. IMO.

CC has way better, more robust data logging. Check for any variables to setup your logging that apply to 4 pole motors.
You may have incorrect gearing causing your Heat issues.
 
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hmm.... maybe the scale on the logs has a multiplier because of number of poles or something? Let me look at that.
Here is a screen shot. This was with 12 tooth pinion, 6s lipo. On the legend it says "2 pole x 1000" Is that a generic log since it doesn't know how many poles I have and I need to divide by 2?

View attachment 210711

Oh ok.... It's a 4 pole motor so I think I need to divide by 2... on castle's site: "The Castle 1520-1650KV motor is a 4-POLE 12-SLOT design". Not sure what 12 slot means, or what 1Y means, but 4 poles for sure.

Ok so that means that I need to gear down even farther cuz I'm still only hitting 33,000 rpm on 12t. The 12t looked pretty tight. I'm not sure if an 11 will fit. Rewinding back up to the top where it was suggested that I change the spur. The stock spur looks pretty tight to the bottom.
Did you setup the gearing/pole info in the castle link software? I believe you have to click something in the top left corner on the data log screen. That might be why you're getting wrong info.

Haha just noticed you're in westminster, I'm in longmont! :ROFLMAO:
 
Hey Moirae, good to meet a local :) We need to talk about good spots to run around here.

Thank you for letting me know about the gearing/pole settings. I had no idea they were there. I'm not sure if the log gets wonky since I initially loaded it with 2 pole, and I changed it to 4 pole, but it now says that my max rpm is only 9943 rpm. If that's really the case then I'm geared WAAAY to high even at stock gearing of 15/50. I looked briefly and couldn't find a spur less than 50 that fits. I guess for my next run I'll drop the 12t back in there and put the advance down to zero and see what that does. That's nuts if I'm really only running 9943 rpm max. Seems wrong somehow, but if so then I guess I'll see if I can get an 11t pinion to fit and keep looking for a bigger spur. I don't really want to drop to smaller tires, but that might be a good test. I'm just using the stock talion tires and I like them. I don't really want any more grip as I like rally sliding the corners anyway.

I'm starting to think that this motor just wasn't designed to run high loads at lower speeds. I almost bought a heatsink and fan for it and realized that the 1717 would weigh less than the 1520 with the cooling stuff on it.
 
Hey Moirae, good to meet a local :) We need to talk about good spots to run around here.

Thank you for letting me know about the gearing/pole settings. I had no idea they were there. I'm not sure if the log gets wonky since I initially loaded it with 2 pole, and I changed it to 4 pole, but it now says that my max rpm is only 9943 rpm. If that's really the case then I'm geared WAAAY to high even at stock gearing of 15/50. I looked briefly and couldn't find a spur less than 50 that fits. I guess for my next run I'll drop the 12t back in there and put the advance down to zero and see what that does. That's nuts if I'm really only running 9943 rpm max. Seems wrong somehow, but if so then I guess I'll see if I can get an 11t pinion to fit and keep looking for a bigger spur. I don't really want to drop to smaller tires, but that might be a good test. I'm just using the stock talion tires and I like them. I don't really want any more grip as I like rally sliding the corners anyway.

I'm starting to think that this motor just wasn't designed to run high loads at lower speeds. I almost bought a heatsink and fan for it and realized that the 1717 would weigh less than the 1520 with the cooling stuff on it.

It's crazy the problems you're having. I think you really should have went 1717 haha. I have a mmx8s/1717 in my talion with 46 center diff from infraction. I'm currently running 30/46 and at least with the way I bash it doesn't get hot. Granted I do have 2x 40mm fans. 10k rpm sure does sound weird though. Wouldn't that mean you could gear up? I'm lost :ROFLMAO:
 
Ya, I really think I'm just going to sell this motor and get a 1717. I don't want more power, but it's clear that I either need to figure out how to generate less heat, or dissipate it better. I'm convinced also that running rally style hot laps with big tires is one of the harder things on a motor to cool. I wish I understood why the 1717 would run cooler. The only thing I can figure is that it has about 10% more surface area than the 1520, which essentially is 10% more cooling via heatsink. I don't know if it's linear or not, but if that gave me 10% more run time, that's still not acceptable. I have a conversation going with Castle, so I guess we will see where they take it. Only thing so far is that they told me to gear down and suggested a 12t pinion. As said above, that didn't fix the issue and I can't gear any farther down without a larger spur.

edit: I don't know why I didn't think of this before... I sold the original spektrum motor, but I do have a Hobbystar 4092-1730Kv that came in a kraton I'm building. I could throw that in there with the same pinion and see how it performs. It's not a sensored motor, and a higher Kv, but would give me another datapoint. Only thing is that since it's not sensored it won't automatically shut off so I'll have to be a lot more careful about watching temps, and I don't even own a temp gun.
 
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Ok ok, so the motor is a 1520-1650 castle. It ran fine when I was running on the street, but now that I've made an offroad track and am up to 65% max throttle it heats up pretty fast. I only get about 10 mins before it hits shutoff @ 170. I have the ESC limit motor temp to 180... Though in the logs it says max was 171... Ehhh whatever. The point is... I don't have a heat sink or fan on it. I only went w the 1520 over the 171 because it was 90 grams lighter. If I'm going to put 90 grams of heatsink and fan on it then I'd rather just buy a 1717 and keep fanless. I know the 1520 isn't popular on here but any guesses how much more time a heatsink alone might buy me? Also, it's only 60 degrees out, and I plan to run it in 90 degree weather. Soooo... Yeah...

Oh, I'm already @ a 15t pinion. Is it worth going down another tooth or two? I don't think top speed is going to be an issue if I do, but the only other pinion I have lying around is a 12t and I'm guessing that's too small. Guess it can't hurt to try.
The only difference with offroad and tarmac is the load on the motor and if you loose traction in off-road you overheat the motor the solution is a bigger pinion and add a fan can help for keept the motor colder a few more minute. You can also put more tire grip
 
I see. :/

I'm purposefully rally sliding the corners because it's fun for me to drive that way. It's all dry dirt with some drying out grass and the track was built with that style of driving in mind. It's somewhat high speed. The drying out grass is cut as low as my mower will go, and maybe 1/2" tall if that. I wouldn't think it's much higher of a load than any other offroad track. I'll get some pix posted.

I was thinking about just buying a 1717, as well as a heatsink for both the 1520 and the 1717. Then I'll have every option to play with. I hate to throw money around, but only being able to drive my car for 5 mins at a time is worse. (amiright?!?!)
 
Got my 4s battery in today and went for a run. I used the smallest pinion i had, 11tooth now. So on 11tooth, 4s, ambient at 65 deg, I hit 172 degrees motor temp after only 3.6 minutes.

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soooo... nothing has changed. @21STalion - you're right about 5s. :/ It might be fine if I can run something higher than an 11 pinion though.

I bought a castle fan and I guess we'll see how that does. I also got another mmx8s and 1717. Maybe I'll just swap out the motor first, and then the esc so it's one variable at a time.

edit: the rpms definitely look more like they should though on the logs at least. :)
 
Ok ok, so the motor is a 1520-1650 castle. It ran fine when I was running on the street, but now that I've made an offroad track and am up to 65% max throttle it heats up pretty fast. I only get about 10 mins before it hits shutoff @ 170. I have the ESC limit motor temp to 180... Though in the logs it says max was 171... Ehhh whatever. The point is... I don't have a heat sink or fan on it. I only went w the 1520 over the 171 because it was 90 grams lighter. If I'm going to put 90 grams of heatsink and fan on it then I'd rather just buy a 1717 and keep fanless. I know the 1520 isn't popular on here but any guesses how much more time a heatsink alone might buy me? Also, it's only 60 degrees out, and I plan to run it in 90 degree weather. Soooo... Yeah...

Oh, I'm already @ a 15t pinion. Is it worth going down another tooth or two? I don't think top speed is going to be an issue if I do, but the only other pinion I have lying around is a 12t and I'm guessing that's too small. Guess it can't hurt to try.
If you are running a 1650 kv motor in a Talion with stock size tires a 15t pinion you are way under geared. The motor is probably running as hard as it can all the time. With a 1650 small tires and a light vehicle you should be running at least a 22t. If you got heat problems with a 21t you might have a binding problem. That could be bearings, a diff issue, something rubbing.
 
I got a chance to swap out the esc for a new one and this made no difference.

I'm going to put the 1717 in there now and see if that makes any difference.

jluther, I don't feel any binding at all, but maybe I don't know wht I'm looking for. I'm just taking out the motor and spinnging the spur gear. Seems smooth and easy to turn to me.
 
1717 with 21t pinion. I only got a few minutes on the 4s before I ran out of battery, but then I went to the 6s battery, as it was all I had charged. Never cut out. I got the 1717 up to 162.7, but that was running it HARD for part of a 4s pack, and a whole 5000mAh 6s pack. :D

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I'm not sure if the 1520 has an issue or if it just isn't up to the task. Either way, I'm sending it back to castle for them to check it out. If there isn't anything wrong, it's up for sale. It just won't handle what I'm dishing out. Hopefully castle finds a bad bearing or something... I dunno.

For what it's worth and as a comparison, my best guestimate is that 65% throttle on the 1520 felt like 45-50% throttle on the 1717. I wasn't able to control anything more than the 50% throttle on 6s.
 
1717 with 21t pinion. I only got a few minutes on the 4s before I ran out of battery, but then I went to the 6s battery, as it was all I had charged. Never cut out. I got the 1717 up to 162.7, but that was running it HARD for part of a 4s pack, and a whole 5000mAh 6s pack. :D

View attachment 211221

I'm not sure if the 1520 has an issue or if it just isn't up to the task. Either way, I'm sending it back to castle for them to check it out. If there isn't anything wrong, it's up for sale. It just won't handle what I'm dishing out. Hopefully castle finds a bad bearing or something... I dunno.

For what it's worth and as a comparison, my best guestimate is that 65% throttle on the 1520 felt like 45-50% throttle on the 1717. I wasn't able to control anything more than the 50% throttle on 6s.
Well that's good news! just to be sure, you did try a 21t with the 1520 right?
 
Yes, the 21 is where I started and castle tld me to gear down. The 1717 on 4s, 21tooth I run fastest laps @ 70 percent throttle limit so far. Im sure I will get to100 skill wise, and it seems that the 1717 will take the heat just fine. So 4s is all I need for this motor. :)
 
I got a chance to swap out the esc for a new one and this made no difference.

I'm going to put the 1717 in there now and see if that makes any difference.

jluther, I don't feel any binding at all, but maybe I don't know wht I'm looking for. I'm just taking out the motor and spinnging the spur gear. Seems smooth and easy to turn to me.
I think castle will find something messed up in your 1520. That really should be a great option for the Talion. IMO if you get too heavy of a motor it ruins the light quicker handling of the Talion. With the 1717 you should be able to run as big a pinion as you can fit lol 😆
I have a 1717 1650 on an XLWB KRATON with 20mm JBI HUB extenders fully loaded with aluminum upgrades and the motor doesn’t even get warm with a 23t pinion. I do have fans though

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Finally able to report back on this. I got my warranty replacement motor back from Castle and now I'm running cool. I just ran a 13ish minute session and temps under 140. I did have to pause a minute or so in to reset my steering limits as I changed the hole that the arm goes through and it wouldn't steer all the way left. oops. Anyway... I'm happy to report that it was replaced under warranty and that fixed the heat issue in entirity. Oh, and this was running a 20T pinion on 4s, so not exactly the easiest load on it either. :) I'll probably step up to the 23T which is the biggest I have at the moment.

Case closed :)

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