Outcast Pinion removal=sore wrists

Rich Duperbash

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Having done multiple pinion swaps with 2 Typhons, was expecting tight out of the box hardware on the Outcast. Holy crud! Almost stripped one of motor mount screws, the one closest to battery tray was a bugger, same as Typhons. Then the dreaded pinion grub screw, got it with good technique and man strength. Now came the"fun" part. Pinion won't budge. Had previous "tight pinion syndrome", a rare but curable disease, with 1 of 2 Typhons. Mind you it was passing bedtime, late start. I tried leveraging carefully with a flathead screwdriver using motor mount as a brace to push pinion off the shaft, no go...tried multiple angles, pinion moved slightly and then stoppedonce screwdriver tip bent and I had knicked up my new mount enough,
 

Rich Duperbash

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Whoops. Thread continued... the force I was having to use was putting my motor/shaft and mount in jeopardy of possible tweakage. Heat gun on high until smoke from melting red thread locker finally allowed me to pry off pinion. Last I knew, locker goes on grub screw. I couldn't believe how much red thread lock was on pinion and motor shaft. Will report on 16 tooth later, big jump from stock 12. IMG_20161126_235746767.jpg IMG_20161126_235832408.jpg IMG_20161126_235746767.jpg IMG_20161126_235832408.jpg IMG_20161127_243452119.jpg
 

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I replied in your other thread, but it's more applicable here.

Glad to hear I'm not the only one. If I go to change my Typhon and Outcast, I'll be sure to cook that thead locker with a soldering iron.
 

Rich Duperbash

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I replied in your other thread, but it's more applicable here.

Glad to hear I'm not the only one. If I go to change my Typhon and Outcast, I'll be sure to cook that thead locker with a soldering iron.
Go for it Stanley. We have 2 Typhons. I run 18 tooth on 6s and it flies off-road. Son runs 20 on 4s, still fast/fun. Really have to gear up to fully appreciate this buggy beasts power!
 

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Rich now that you have the motor out, if you buy another motor mount and cut the part where the pinion and motor goes then you will have an aluminium diff mount that will help with flex on the diff. Look in the forum because there are a couple of guys that have done it and the love it.
 

Rich Duperbash

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Rich now that you have the motor out, if you buy another motor mount and cut the part where the pinion and motor goes then you will have an aluminium diff mount that will help with flex on the diff. Look in the forum because there are a couple of guys that have done it and the love it.
I had the motor back in that evening as I was planning to give my thread lock/ new pinion time to set for Outcast maiden voyage the next day. I try and finish each project in one sitting, having my cars in pieces drives me batty, probably OCD or some other neurosis, feel I work better like that. Great idea though to get a second mount to fab as a diff mount, the plastic one seems barely adequate to perform it's job. Thanks for that.
 

Rich Duperbash

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That top pic looks something nasty, like coffee grounds on that planetary gear. Thanks for pics. Looks like any easy enough upgrade, then I wouldn't need to worry about over tightening the stock plastic brace screws either, especially from under chassis.
 

Rich Duperbash

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Bought a Kraton today in support of second LHS now carrying Arrma! I asked the owner about parts support, he told me he wanted to see product move first. I went on and on about how awesome these rigs are and returned a few hours later to become his first Arrma sale. Went to remove motor to gear the Beast up and fill center diff with heavier silicone and my nightmare came true. Despite using my soldering iron I stripped the same screw, closest to battery tray, as I nearly stripped with Outcast. I didn't have a small enough cutting wheel to slot it for a screwdriver, attempted using a torx bit, and left handed drill bit. F...! Ended up ultimately having to very carefully drill her out, a painful last resort. Spared any damage to chassis, but will likely need a new motor mount. To top things off, the pinion was again thread cemented to motor shaft, heat gun on high did the trick. Ohhhh and I broke my tool trying to get motor mount off motor. Think it's time to get a hotter soldering iron, some better tools, and finally contact Arrma about the thread lock overkill. Hope to bash this Beast soon alongside the Outcast with my kids. IMG_20161209_235725628.jpg IMG_20161210_240606650.jpg
 

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Wow!
Ok...so I just bought an Outcast.
Was planning to slap the 16T on right away! I don't own a heat gun, or a soldering iron...is it not possible to get the pinion off without liquefying the thread locker beforehand?!?
Would using a lighter do the trick?
 

Rich Duperbash

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Wow!
Ok...so I just bought an Outcast.
Was planning to slap the 16T on right away! I don't own a heat gun, or a soldering iron...is it not possible to get the pinion off without liquefying the thread locker beforehand?!?
Would using a lighter do the trick?
You may get lucky and not need heat for removal, but my guess is not. Don't think the lighter will work, it will likely leave black soot on your pinion and possibly on motor shaft. I say go to Harbor Freight or budget hardware place and buy a heat gun, will likely need a hot soldering iron for heating motor mount screws and outdrive cup grub screws...Etc. Make sure your using quality Allen tools, save yourself and your rig before it's too late!!! Makes all the difference, impossible jobs will become doable. PS, be mindful not to melt plastic parts when using heat.
 

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image.jpeg I use a 140 watt soldering iron for heating fastners and battery/ esc connections.This type is pull the trigger and heats up in a few seconds,if you watch the part being heated sometimes you can see the locktite fume,then easy to remove.
 

Rich Duperbash

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View attachment 4743 I use a 140 watt soldering iron for heating fastners and battery/ esc connections.This type is pull the trigger and heats up in a few seconds,if you watch the part being heated sometimes you can see the locktite fume,then easy to remove.
Thanks for posting, just picked one up, other iron works, but takes too long to transfer heat well, life's too short, to many repairs upgrades...Etc.
 

Buck

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Good on Arrma for ensuring everything from the factory is locked down tight.
That said, I am perplexed by the pinion gear having that much TL on it.
I think having the grub screw tightened with medium strength locker is all that is needed to ensure proper function/security for the pinion.
Odd choice on their part for sure but at least there is a work-around by using excessive amounts of heat!
Looks like I'm off to the local hardware store to pick up an iron...or a heating gun?
Just wondering what would do the trick more effectively, the iron, or the gun?
Trying to avoid buying both right now if possible as I have spent a small fortune on the everything - the truck, the battery, the charger, shock oil, diff oil, hex driver set, lipo bag, banana to XT90 charge lead adapter...the virtual laundry list!
 

Rich Duperbash

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Good on Arrma for ensuring everything from the factory is locked down tight.
That said, I am perplexed by the pinion gear having that much TL on it.
I think having the grub screw tightened with medium strength locker is all that is needed to ensure proper function/security for the pinion.
Odd choice on their part for sure but at least there is a work-around by using excessive amounts of heat!
Looks like I'm off to the local hardware store to pick up an iron...or a heating gun?
Just wondering what would do the trick more effectively, the iron, or the gun?
Trying to avoid buying both right now if possible as I have spent a small fortune on the everything - the truck, the battery, the charger, shock oil, diff oil, hex driver set, LiPo bag, banana to XT90 charge lead adapter...the virtual laundry list!
I would start with a powerful iron like pictured above, just used it to soften thread locker on main input gear cup pinion, worked really well, heated very fast, could smell the sweet smell of locker burning. I here you about spending a small fortune. Just remember, don't skimp too much on tools, it will likely cost you more time and money in the long run when you need to upgrade to better quality. That's basically what I've had to do by being fundamentally frugile. Life is less frustrating and repairs and maintenance go much smoother with the right equipment.
 
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Buck

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Right on, solid advice Rich I will certainly keep that in mind.
The hex drivers I bought are pretty good, branded as Turnigy...they were most expensive I could find on the site I bought them from.
So when I am doing the pinion, do I stick the iron right on the tip of the grub screw, and at the end of the motor mount screws etc.?
Just wondering if the heat needs to be localized, or if by applying it to the end of the screw the transference of heat will do well enough to melt the locker that is obviously not visible and resides within the threading.
Sorry maybe these are newb questions but I need to go into this as 'armed' as possible...as I am somewhat nervous about doing work to begin with as I have ZERO experience working on this stuff!
 

Rich Duperbash

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Think that is a good hex set. As far as heat usage, keep it localized. I always remove my motor and center diff as a unit like in the pictogram manual prior to removing pinion. It's 5 screws on underside of chassis, 3 of which are very threadlocked, 2 go into plastic supports of center diff. DO not heat the wrong screws or you're screwed. Haven't done it but came close to heating up wrong screw at least once. Pretty sure heat would ruin plastic threads. I stick iron into and or right on hex heads and hold until I smell burning or see some small smoking. It's pathetic we need to do this! Once I think locker is soft/melted, I go to it with the tool, if I'm breaking my wrist..etc, I go straight back to heating and hold it even longer. Take your time heating, dealing with stripped screw is a total PITA.
 

Buck

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Yeah, stripping screws is a nightmare I plan to avoid at ALL costs.
As for the two screws that mount the pinion to the stand off, are they thread locked also?
 

Rich Duperbash

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Yeah, stripping screws is a nightmare I plan to avoid at ALL costs.
As for the two screws that mount the pinion to the stand off, are they thread locked also?
There's 2 screws that mount motor directly to motor mount and single grub that holds pinion on. All metal to metal will have locker on it. No metal to plastic should have any locker. Problem may arise after you remove pinion grub, I've found that excess locker glues motor shaft and pinion together. I personally used heat gun for that, however holding solder iron in pinion grub hole should heat pinion enough to break bond. May still need to pry pinion off carefully with a screwdriver. Hope it isn't too painful. Take your time, lots of heat, should work out OK.
 

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