Talion PSM high end parts for Talion

[JMS RC]

I thought everyone just copied each other especially the holes as there is no other way right?

I don't think it's wise to just copy the chassi, there has to be some features that are not identical.
Of course the holes we actually need would have to be where we need them.
I was asking about material cost earlier, was thinking of the kick up plate on the front and the crown gear "cutouts". On the original
it looks like the chassi is just bent in the front and the crown gear "cutouts" looks stamped. If it should be done in 7075-T6 is it possible to bend the front kick up plate and stamp the "cutouts" ? It probably has to milled !? in that case it would mean a lot of material.

 

[RCROD]

Yes, the machining and holes would need to be exact for any parts. If and how much the part is changed depends on the aftermarket company, as it is not copyright if the interchangeable part is exact (e.g. different companies make virtually the exact same auto repair part). Some companies will release the exact same part, dimensions, etc, and just change the material used, some will increase the thickness by 1-2mm, and some companies like PSM will do a lot more machining of milling in order to lighten up a part. However, with a lot of milling, some R&D + testing needs to be done in order to ensure all the machining is done in the correct places (in less stressed areas). This is why PSM mentioned he would need the stock Arrma chassis at his shop, in order to design and manufacture a new 7075 aluminum chassis.

With PSM due to all the machining and milling they do on their parts, putting in the front kick up plate or crown gear divots, etc, would not be a problem, I would think. However, for aftermarket companies that more or less, just cut out their parts, this might be more difficult. I thought PSM would have been good to have on board, as they would have done the necessary R&D to ensure their aftermarket Arrma parts are not only light and strong, but will stand up also.

If we get enough excitement for a 7075-T6 chassis, besides your option, I could also follow up and press PSM again this fall. If you want to start a poll, I'm in.

PS, although a Voltage Hobbies chassis would probably be heavier, I wonder why they have not made one yet...

 

[arrmaracing]

With PSM, Stefan mentioned he would need the stock Arrma chassis at his shop, in order to design and manufacture a new 7075 aluminum chassis. The machining and holes would need to be exact. I

Yeah i don't mind chipping in for one and get it sent straight to his warehouse.

Does he need it now. Would be good to get one from jennyrc.

 

[RCROD]

nds

Yeah i don't mind chipping in for one and get it sent straight to his warehouse.

Does he need it now. Would be good to get one from jennyrc.

Man, your quick LOL. If enough interest, we could look into that...

 

[arrmaracing]

nds

Man, your quick LOL. If enough interest, we could look into that...

Haha man i just wanna get this done. You know how to is getting the xl kraton is that the same stefan your talking about.

 

[JMS RC]

Yes, the machining and holes would need to be exact for any parts. If and how much the part is changed depends on the aftermarket company, as it is not copyright if the interchangeable part is exact (e.g. different companies make virtually the exact same auto repair part). Some companies will release the exact same part, dimensions, etc, and just change the material used, some will increase the thickness by 1-2mm, and some companies like PSM will do a lot more machining of milling in order to lighten up a part. However, with a lot of milling, some R&D + testing needs to be done in order to ensure all the machining is done in the correct places (in less stressed areas). This is why PSM mentioned he would need the stock Arrma chassis at his shop, in order to design and manufacture a new 7075 aluminum chassis.

With PSM due to all the machining and milling they do on their parts, putting in the front kick up plate or crown gear divots, etc, would not be a problem, I would think. However, for aftermarket companies that more or less, just cut out their parts, this might be more difficult. I thought PSM would have been good to have on board, as they would have done the necessary R&D to ensure their aftermarket Arrma parts are not only light and strong, but will stand up also.

If we get enough excitement for a 7075-T6 chassis, besides your option, I could also follow up and press PSM again this fall. If you want to start a poll, I'm in.

PS, although a Voltage Hobbies chassis would probably be heavier, I wonder why they have not made one yet...

Haha man i just wanna get this done. You know how to is getting the xl kraton is that the same stefan your talking about.

The automotive business have different rule's when it comes to aftermarket and oem parts, however it doesn't really matter, as you say, if you just change a couple of features, lightening, thickness, or maybe a slightly different curve towards the rear, it shouldn't be a problem.

I don't think any company with the right machines would have a problem milling a chassi, but the amount of material it would take per chassi to mill the kick up plate and cutouts would be a lot, just take the chassi and measure the total height. If 7075-T6 is reasonably priced, no problem.

Why Voltage Hobbies has not made one, might be weight, might be cost, or just demand ?

I was wondering the same thing about Stefan, although it says he's from PhazeOne !? Can't wait to see the XL Kraton.

Checking Jenny's RC everyday

 

[arrmaracing]

The automotive business have different rule's when it comes to aftermarket and oem parts, however it doesn't really matter, as you say, if you just change a couple of features, lightening, thickness, or maybe a slightly different curve towards the rear, it shouldn't be a problem.

I don't think any company with the right machines would have a problem milling a chassi, but the amount of material it would take per chassi to mill the kick up plate and cutouts would be a lot, just take the chassi and measure the total height. If 7075-T6 is reasonably priced, no problem.

Why Voltage Hobbies has not made one, might be weight, might be cost, or just demand ?

I was wondering the same thing about Stefan, although it says he's from PhazeOne !? Can't wait to see the XL Kraton.

Checking Jenny's RC everyday

Just bought myself two front/rear diffs, kraton hubs and dog bones to prepare my truggified typhon and also for my future xl kraton.

 

[JMS RC]

RCROD: How 'bout GKA Custom RC Parts, do you think would he be interested in making a chassi ?
https://www.gkacustomrcparts.com

 

[arrmaracing]

S

RCROD: How 'bout GKA Custom RC Parts, do you think would he be interested in making a chassi ?
https://www.gkacustomrcparts.com

Does gka only make for arrma? Their website only has a handful of items

 

[RCROD]

No, must be a different Stefan. Stefan at PSM (Germany) has never even had a Arrma at his shop, let alone own one. I believe Thomas P at TPPARTSEXTREME is also working on a XL Kraton. Even better, I would like to see Arrma release a 1/6-1/7 scale Kraton XL (under 20lbs).

Yes, I'm almost sure Greg at GKA (Alberta, Canada) "only" makes Arrma parts. I believe, he is a Arrma basher who made some upgrade parts when his stock parts failed. I have only visited his site once a few months back, and Greg was immediately on his chat line, asking if I needed any help. I thought that was kind of cool. Although he does not make many parts, he does use some 7075 aluminum (not sure if T6 though), so maybe worth asking him about a new 7075-T6 chassis?

 

[JMS RC]

No, must be a different Stefan. Stefan at PSM (Germany) has never even had a Arrma at his shop, let alone own one. I believe Thomas P at TPPARTSEXTREME is also working on a XL Kraton. Even better, I would like to see Arrma release a 1/6-1/7 scale Kraton XL (under 20lbs).

Yes, I'm almost sure Greg at GKA (Alberta, Canada) "only" makes Arrma parts. I believe, he is a Arrma basher who made some upgrade parts when his stock parts failed. I have only visited his site once a few months back, and Greg was immediately on his chat line, asking if I needed any help. I thought that was kind of cool. Although he does not make many parts, he does use some 7075 aluminum (not sure if T6 though), so maybe worth asking him about a new 7075-T6 chassis?

I think you're right. Greg is an Arrma basher himself........... I believe he's in your neighborhood ? We should ask him ?
Got a tip from Arrma RC owners UK, that his parts are top-notch, I just ordered some Outcast parts from him.
I stumbled upon Markhor RC Designs on FB, I do like hos carbon fiber top braces, anyway he showed a chassi that Just Bash It RC made (saw later that you posted about this in another thread) looks sweet though.
Seems like Markhor RC is in Australia, and Just Bash It RC is in US ?

 

[arrmaracing]

yep markhor is from australia and justbashit is in usa.

Just a question in regards to the carbon fiber parts from xtreme racing and maxspeedparts. Do i need to ca glue the edges to stop delamination on both or is it just for xtreme racing? As when i went to the xtreme racing it quotes to ca glue edges.

 

[arrmaracing]

So just sent a message to markhor design and this is how it went.

 

[RCROD]

servalac. Who did you just order Outcast parts from? GKA does not make many parts, and not sure if a 7075-T6 chassis would be too much of a project for him? I will check though, if you want? Yes, I did mention earlier about JUST BASH IT RC chassis in another post. However, JUST BASH IT RC chassis is only 6061, although it is heat treated T6. Not sure, but their chassis looks unfinished or something, and would prefer a hard anodized finish for that extra protection. Also, I don't like that you can't use the stock chassis side guards anymore (a lot more mud/rocks would come into their chassis?)

Although, I am not a big fan of the tower to tower brace, I did also mention about Markhor Designs in another post, as this looks like a much better option (weight, looks, etc), than a homemade tower to tower brace. I aplogize, as I should have mentioned RC BASH IT & Markhor Designs again...

Here's a link to a another post, as it looks like Markhor has quite a few parts available:
https://www.arrmaforum.com/threads/chassis-problems.5964/

arrmaracing: Yes, I would seal all your carbon fiber parts (using clear ca glue). I checked, and the edges have not been sealed on any of maxspeedparts c/f parts I received. 1st I used very fine sandpaper (800 grit, do not use more than 400), and less sanding is better, as you just want to smooth it a bit. I then mounted my shock towers on my Kraton, concentrating mainly on sealing/gluing the top of them and down the sides just a bit. The top of the shock towers is what can take the abuse, so this is where I was concerned with, but in reality, the front shock tower is protected by the body, and hopefully, the rear wing protects the rear shock tower. I have not installed any of my c/f parts on my Talion yet, and not sure if I will seal "all" the edges on my c/f front top plate, steering rack & tabs?

Do not glue/seal the bottom of the towers or screw holes before installing, as the fit and screw holes are a precision fit. I actually had a perfect size round file to ensure all screws fit perfectly when installing towers. I even lightly sanded in a couple of areas on the bottom of the shock towers when I was pre-fitting them before final installation.

You can do more glue coats than just 1 if you want, but if use thin ca glue, it should penetrate well enough with just 1 coat. You can also lightly sand after using ca glue for a smoother finish, but keep in mind there is the possibility of removing too much glue, when doing this. Some people will glue, sand, glue, sand, a few times for the best finish possible. You can even use a permanent black marker after sanding and before gluing, for that super gloss look.

PS I like Markhor Designs reply to your message, as they look like they make some nice parts...
In all realility though, onlt the the top of the rear shock tower The top of the towers is where there is any chance of

 

[arrmaracing]

servalac. Who did you just order Outcast parts from? GKA does not make many parts, and not sure if a 7075-T6 chassis would be too much of a project for him? I will check though, if you want? Yes, I did mention earlier about JUST BASH IT RC chassis in another post. However, JUST BASH IT RC chassis is only 6061, although it is heat treated T6. Not sure, but their chassis looks unfinished or something, and would prefer a hard anodized finish for that extra protection. Also, I don't like that you can't use the stock chassis side guards anymore (a lot more mud/rocks would come into their chassis?)

Although, I am not a big fan of the tower to tower brace, I did also mention about Markhor Designs in another post, as this looks like a much better option (weight, looks, etc), than a homemade tower to tower brace. I aplogize, as I should have mentioned RC BASH IT & Markhor Designs again...

Here's a link to a another post, as it looks like Markhor has quite a few parts available:
https://www.arrmaforum.com/threads/chassis-problems.5964/

arrmaracing: Yes, I would seal all your carbon fiber parts (using clear ca glue). I checked, and the edges have not been sealed on any of maxspeedparts c/f parts I received. 1st I used very fine sandpaper (800 grit, do not use more than 400), and less sanding is better, as you just want to smooth it a bit. I then mounted my shock towers on my Kraton, concentrating mainly on sealing/gluing the top of them and down the sides just a bit. The top of the shock towers is what can take the abuse, so this is where I was concerned with, but in reality, the front shock tower is protected by the body, and hopefully, the rear wing protects the rear shock tower. I have not installed any of my c/f parts on my Talion yet, and not sure if I will seal "all" the edges on my c/f front top plate, steering rack & tabs?

Do not glue/seal the bottom of the towers or screw holes before installing, as the fit and screw holes are a precision fit. I actually had a perfect size round file to ensure all screws fit perfectly when installing towers. I even lightly sanded in a couple of areas on the bottom of the shock towers when I was pre-fitting them before final installation.

You can do more glue coats than just 1 if you want, but if use thin ca glue, it should penetrate well enough with just 1 coat. You can also lightly sand after using ca glue for a smoother finish, but keep in mind there is the possibility of removing too much glue, when doing this. Some people will glue, sand, glue, sand, a few times for the best finish possible. You can even use a permanent black marker after sanding and before gluing, for that super gloss look.

PS I like Markhor Designs reply to your message, as they look like they make some nice parts...
In all realility though, onlt the the top of the rear shock tower The top of the towers is where there is any chance of

Yes markhor design is looking promising. Hopefully he doesn't push it back until next year. I got a few numbers from a different forum that would be interested in a high quality 3mm chassis.

Do you guys roughly know how much the weight would be for the stock chassis and how much lighter if we get a higher quality chassis?

 

[JMS RC]

servalac. Who did you just order Outcast parts from? GKA does not make many parts, and not sure if a 7075-T6 chassis would be too much of a project for him? I will check though, if you want? Yes, I did mention earlier about JUST BASH IT RC chassis in another post. However, JUST BASH IT RC chassis is only 6061, although it is heat treated T6. Not sure, but their chassis looks unfinished or something, and would prefer a hard anodized finish for that extra protection. Also, I don't like that you can't use the stock chassis side guards anymore (a lot more mud/rocks would come into their chassis?)

Although, I am not a big fan of the tower to tower brace, I did also mention about Markhor Designs in another post, as this looks like a much better option (weight, looks, etc), than a homemade tower to tower brace. I aplogize, as I should have mentioned RC BASH IT & Markhor Designs again...

Here's a link to a another post, as it looks like Markhor has quite a few parts available:
https://www.arrmaforum.com/threads/chassis-problems.5964/

arrmaracing: Yes, I would seal all your carbon fiber parts (using clear ca glue). I checked, and the edges have not been sealed on any of maxspeedparts c/f parts I received. 1st I used very fine sandpaper (800 grit, do not use more than 400), and less sanding is better, as you just want to smooth it a bit. I then mounted my shock towers on my Kraton, concentrating mainly on sealing/gluing the top of them and down the sides just a bit. The top of the shock towers is what can take the abuse, so this is where I was concerned with, but in reality, the front shock tower is protected by the body, and hopefully, the rear wing protects the rear shock tower. I have not installed any of my c/f parts on my Talion yet, and not sure if I will seal "all" the edges on my c/f front top plate, steering rack & tabs?

Do not glue/seal the bottom of the towers or screw holes before installing, as the fit and screw holes are a precision fit. I actually had a perfect size round file to ensure all screws fit perfectly when installing towers. I even lightly sanded in a couple of areas on the bottom of the shock towers when I was pre-fitting them before final installation.

You can do more glue coats than just 1 if you want, but if use thin ca glue, it should penetrate well enough with just 1 coat. You can also lightly sand after using ca glue for a smoother finish, but keep in mind there is the possibility of removing too much glue, when doing this. Some people will glue, sand, glue, sand, a few times for the best finish possible. You can even use a permanent black marker after sanding and before gluing, for that super gloss look.

PS I like Markhor Designs reply to your message, as they look like they make some nice parts...
In all realility though, onlt the the top of the rear shock tower The top of the towers is where there is any chance of

Yes markhor design is looking promising. Hopefully he doesn't push it back until next year. I got a few numbers from a different forum that would be interested in a high quality 3mm chassis.

Do you guys roughly know how much the weight would be for the stock chassis and how much lighter if we get a higher quality chassis?

Sorry, should've been a space between those texts.....I did order Outcast parts from GKA.
True, GKA does not make many parts but I've read that he develops parts for his own cars as the need arises. We could ask him though but it seems he does not even run a Talion V3 ?

The Just Bash It chassi does look rough, but it may be a prototype, there must be a reason why they choose 6061 ? The milled sideguards may be there for added strength and for trying to get rid of the flex ? I have also read that 7075-T6 is not the best alloy to anodize, although Voltage Hobbies does do it. Is the DEX8T chassi (which is mentioned earlier in this thread) is what we have in mind design wise ? TD's was Hard Anodized (also on 7075-T6) which might be a different type of anodizing ? It does look really nice although I have no idea how it held up on the DEX8T's.
Weight wise it hard to say ? Will 3mm be enough ?

I'm trying to get rid of my tower to tower brace and really like the idea of having a top brace, I contacted Markhor RC Designs about one for the Talion V3, he responded quickly and he says they are still in development, he will post on FB as soon as they are done.
Carbon fiber shock towers together with rear/front alloy braces and one of Markhor's top braces seems like a good idea.

About carbon fiber, Thanks for the advice on sealing the edges, (there's also a couple of vids on youtube)
I did recieve the Talion V3 low profile shock towers from maxspeedparts, really nice quality carbon fiber, I am however not
very impressed with the craftmanship on the front one. The cutouts are not symmetrical and most of the holes are out of round.
I think the cutting process simply is done too fast or the material slips, stuff like this probably happens all the time but the part shouldn't have passed quality control !?

 

[arrmaracing]

Sorry, should've been a space between those texts.....I did order Outcast parts from GKA.
True, GKA does not make many parts but I've read that he develops parts for his own cars as the need arises. We could ask him though but it seems he does not even run a Talion V3 ?

The Just Bash It chassi does look rough, but it may be a prototype, there must be a reason why they choose 6061 ? The milled sideguards may be there for added strength and for trying to get rid of the flex ? I have also read that 7075-T6 is not the best alloy to anodize, although Voltage Hobbies does do it. Is the DEX8T chassi (which is mentioned earlier in this thread) is what we have in mind design wise ? TD's was Hard Anodized (also on 7075-T6) which might be a different type of anodizing ? It does look really nice although I have no idea how it held up on the DEX8T's.
Weight wise it hard to say ? Will 3mm be enough ?

View attachment 19915

I'm trying to get rid of my tower to tower brace and really like the idea of having a top brace, I contacted Markhor RC Designs about one for the Talion V3, he responded quickly and he says they are still in development, he will post on FB as soon as they are done.
Carbon fiber shock towers together with rear/front alloy braces and one of Markhor's top braces seems like a good idea.

View attachment 19917

About carbon fiber, Thanks for the advice on sealing the edges, (there's also a couple of vids on youtube)
I did recieve the Talion V3 low profile shock towers from maxspeedparts, really nice quality carbon fiber, I am however not
very impressed with the craftmanship on the front one. The cutouts are not symmetrical and most of the holes are out of round.
I think the cutting process simply is done too fast or the material slips, stuff like this probably happens all the time but the part shouldn't have passed quality control !?

View attachment 19919

View attachment 19920

I am not sure if the 3 mm will be enough as I am just going by the other truggy kits thickness like the Mugen, tekno etc.

With the carbon fiber from maxspeedparts I also had the problem with the talion rear carbon fiber shock tower as I to had to sort of make an adjustment to make it fit. I ordered the xtreme racing CF front shock tower so I will let you know how that goes.

I haven't sealed mine as of yet but I think its more so for the front of the buggy as it doesn't have protection from impacts. The kraton and talion are protected by the lid and also the rear wing will take the impact before it lands on the rear shock tower. However it doesn't hurt to seal it anyway so I would just do it.

In regards to carbon fiber chassis, a guy in facebook I was speaking to said he knows a guy already doing a carbon fiber chassis for the arrma kraton. I think its more for speed runs and it doesn't include the raised lip at the front. Would that make any difference if it was built for speed runs? I currently race my arrma's and not necessarily do alot of big air.

The picture attached is a wide version but also has a standard one.

 

[RCROD]

I am not sure if the 3 mm will be enough as I am just going by the other truggy kits thickness like the Mugen, tekno etc.

With the carbon fiber from maxspeedparts I also had the problem with the talion rear carbon fiber shock tower as I to had to sort of make an adjustment to make it fit. I ordered the xtreme racing CF front shock tower so I will let you know how that goes.

I haven't sealed mine as of yet but I think its more so for the front of the buggy as it doesn't have protection from impacts. The kraton and talion are protected by the lid and also the rear wing will take the impact before it lands on the rear shock tower. However it doesn't hurt to seal it anyway so I would just do it.

In regards to carbon fiber chassis, a guy in facebook I was speaking to said he knows a guy already doing a carbon fiber chassis for the arrma kraton. I think its more for speed runs and it doesn't include the raised lip at the front. Would that make any difference if it was built for speed runs? I currently race my arrma's and not necessarily do alot of big air.

The picture attached is a wide version but also has a standard one.

Yes, I agree, I don't think Greg at GKA does have a V3 Talion, and probably not worth even asking him, as a 7075 chassis is a much bigger project that he is used to.

The JUST BASH IT chassis being only 6061, including not being able to use the sideguards (no protection) and an unfinished look with no hard anodizing, and looks heavy, is not the upgrade I'm looking for. I have not heard that 7075-T6 is difficult to hard anodize. I did a quick search and it looks straight forward. Most 7075-T6 aftermarket parts, including many 1/8 scale buggy and truggy kits have hard anodizing, so it used most times.

Anodized 7075 aluminum is one of the toughest forms of aluminum available. By removing aluminum oxide from 7075 aluminum and creating a porous surface to which any of a number of hard coatings can be applied, you make the aluminum not only much stronger, but also resistant to practically all types of corrosion. In addition, anodized 7075 aluminum is more resistant to scratches than standard 7075 aluminum. Scrape a penny across an unobtrusive portion of the metal. Polished aluminum is very soft, as all natural aluminum remains. But, anodized aluminum has a surface strength harder than steel. If the penny is able to scratch the finish, the material is polished aluminum. If the penny leaves a streak of copper on the item, then the surface is harder than the copper and the piece has been anodized. Due to these reasons, I would definitely want a hard anodized 7075-T6 chassis, if I was to upgrade.

Yes, I agree, the DEX8T chassis looks real nice. I think anything close to this would be great, but maybe a bit more material for strength, as this is for a basher, and the DEX8T chassis is more for racing, but have heard the DEX8T was very durable. The more milling in the right places will lighten it up and still keep the chassis durable and strong enough. The amount of milling would depend on the company making the chassis and the R&D testing to ensure this was done correctly. A 3mm 7075-T6 chassis would probably be enough I think, as 7075 is much stronger than 6061. Here's a quick look at the difference:

General Mechanical Properties of 6061 Aluminum (T651 Bare)
Tensile Strength – 45,000 psi
Yield Point – 40,000 psi
Brinell Hardness – 95
Elongation at Break – 12%
Shear Strength – 31,000 psi
Strength to Weight Ratio: 115 kN-m/kg

General Mechanical Properties of 7075 Aluminum (T651)
Tensile Strength – 83,000 psi
Yield Point – 74,000 psi
Brinell Hardness – 150
Elongation at Break – 10%
Shear Strength – 48,000 psi
Strength to Weight Ratio: 196 kN-m/kg

Summary – 6061 vs 7075 Aluminum Alloy
In general, when looking to compare 6061 versus 7075 aluminum alloys, 6061 is considered by many to be highly versatile for a wide variety of general purpose mechanical applications. 7075 is one of the strongest aluminum alloys available and while its increased cost and tougher workability may come across as obstacles, 7075 alloys are worth their price tag when it comes to applications in which its increased strength and toughness are crucial.

The difference between a 7075-T6 chassis and Arrma's stamped 6061 aluminum chassis would be a much bigger difference than the mechanical properties shown above, so yes, I do think a 3mm 7075-T6 chassis would be thick enough.

Great info about Marhor designing a V3 Talion top brace. Although I am not sold on the tower to tower brace, Thomas P uses them on all his Arrma's, so maybe they do work, but Thomas does not upgrade his chassis braces or shock towers. I do agree, Carbon Fiber shock towers, aluminum chassis braces and a Markhor top brace does sound kind of invincible though, and all this w/o a big weight penalty.

Damn, sorry to hear your comments about the carbon fiber parts. I had to massage my Kraton shock towers a bit, the front more (some light sanding on the bottom + a couple of holes also). I had a perfect size round file for the holes, so that helped. I have not installed my Talion c/f parts yet, but was hoping they would take even less massaging than my Kraton towers, but it sounds like that may not be the case. I hope his c/f steering ackerman, steering tabs and front plate for my Talion fit well. I did have a couple of small marks on the outside (one side only) of my Kraton rear shock tower, but the front was fine (no marks at all). I do agree, maxspeedparts could have had a bit better job with quality control. The price, shipping and no duty costs were great though.

 

[RCROD]

I am not sure if the 3 mm will be enough as I am just going by the other truggy kits thickness like the Mugen, tekno etc.

With the carbon fiber from maxspeedparts I also had the problem with the talion rear carbon fiber shock tower as I to had to sort of make an adjustment to make it fit. I ordered the xtreme racing CF front shock tower so I will let you know how that goes.

I haven't sealed mine as of yet but I think its more so for the front of the buggy as it doesn't have protection from impacts. The kraton and talion are protected by the lid and also the rear wing will take the impact before it lands on the rear shock tower. However it doesn't hurt to seal it anyway so I would just do it.

In regards to carbon fiber chassis, a guy in facebook I was speaking to said he knows a guy already doing a carbon fiber chassis for the arrma kraton. I think its more for speed runs and it doesn't include the raised lip at the front. Would that make any difference if it was built for speed runs? I currently race my arrma's and not necessarily do alot of big air.

The picture attached is a wide version but also has a standard one.

Personally, I thought a 3mm 7075-T6 chassis would be a huge upgrade from the stamped aluminum Arrma 6061 chassis. I see M2C makes a Mugen chassis which is 3.25mm:
https://www.absolutehobbyz.com/M2C-Racing-Mugen-MBX7-Truggy-Chassis-w-Skid-Plates_p_507178.html

Tekno does use a 4mm chassis, but Tekno has always built stronger than others. I see even though the Tekno chassis is 4mm, many areas have been milled and lightened to much less thickness than 4mm.
https://www.ebay.ca/itm/Tekno-RC-1-...m=372031080280&_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851

A 4mm 7075-T6 Arrma chassis if milled and lightened like the Tekno chassis above or same as other high end truggy kits would be unbelievable for both strength and lightness, if proper R&D testing is done. However, if no milling is done and to help keep costs down, just a 3mm thick 7075-T6 chassis plate should be strong enough, especially compared to the stock chassis. However, if any milling is done to lighten chassis, I do agree a 4mm chassis should be used. I see even TLR 8IGHT-E uses a 4mm chassis, which are known to also be very durable.

I noticed in Xtreme's Racing site that some of the towers in their pics looked like the holes were not smooth/finished and maxpseedparts had all the other carbon fiber parts also available, plus he was able to give me a really good package deal, etc, so I went with them. Let us know how the Xtreme Racing tower goes.

I agree, the sealing of the c/f top edges are more for the buggy, as the front shock tower is exposed, but yes, I agree, it still wouldn't hurt to do this, and could add extra durability in the long run for our Arrma c/f parts. Just a small amount of ca glue will seal the edges.

Very cool. Good find. If racing, that looks like a great option having a carbon fiber chassis (super light and strong). Most 1/8 scale chassis have a front kick up plate, usually about 8 degrees. More kick-up on the front makes the car go better through bumps, and makes it jump better, specially on jumps with rough uneven faces. More kick-up also reduces steering, specially steering response, as it calms the car down, and makes it smoother. The car will transfer more weight, as the front will rise when accelerating and lower under braking. This can have the effect of making it easier to brake around hairpins as the weight is transferred to the front, and the rear slides round. Less kick-up makes the car more responsive, and better for smooth and for high traction tracks. The car will be more stable on high traction tracks due to less weight transfer. So yes, if Racing, having no front kick up plate can definitely affect the handling. The other benefit I would see with a front kick up plate is less wear and tear under the front part of the chassis, as front chassis would probably bottom out more. Having no front kick up plate would also affect the truggy getting up and over things, as it would not slide over obstacles as easily, and if bashing, this would have a negative impact. If speed runs only, actually having no front kick up plate might be better, as the front end might be a bit lower and air could not underneath as easily. Just a thought...

 

[JMS RC]

I am not sure if the 3 mm will be enough as I am just going by the other truggy kits thickness like the Mugen, tekno etc.

With the carbon fiber from maxspeedparts I also had the problem with the talion rear carbon fiber shock tower as I to had to sort of make an adjustment to make it fit. I ordered the xtreme racing CF front shock tower so I will let you know how that goes.

I haven't sealed mine as of yet but I think its more so for the front of the buggy as it doesn't have protection from impacts. The kraton and talion are protected by the lid and also the rear wing will take the impact before it lands on the rear shock tower. However it doesn't hurt to seal it anyway so I would just do it.

In regards to carbon fiber chassis, a guy in facebook I was speaking to said he knows a guy already doing a carbon fiber chassis for the arrma kraton. I think its more for speed runs and it doesn't include the raised lip at the front. Would that make any difference if it was built for speed runs? I currently race my arrma's and not necessarily do alot of big air.

The picture attached is a wide version but also has a standard one.

Yes, I agree, I don't think Greg at GKA does have a V3 Talion, and probably not worth even asking him, as a 7075 chassis is a much bigger project that he is used to.

The JUST BASH IT chassis being only 6061, including not being able to use the sideguards (no protection) and an unfinished look with no hard anodizing, and looks heavy, is not the upgrade I'm looking for. I have not heard that 7075-T6 is difficult to hard anodize. I did a quick search and it looks straight forward. Most 7075-T6 aftermarket parts, including many 1/8 scale buggy and truggy kits have hard anodizing, so it used most times.

Anodized 7075 aluminum is one of the toughest forms of aluminum available. By removing aluminum oxide from 7075 aluminum and creating a porous surface to which any of a number of hard coatings can be applied, you make the aluminum not only much stronger, but also resistant to practically all types of corrosion. In addition, anodized 7075 aluminum is more resistant to scratches than standard 7075 aluminum. Scrape a penny across an unobtrusive portion of the metal. Polished aluminum is very soft, as all natural aluminum remains. But, anodized aluminum has a surface strength harder than steel. If the penny is able to scratch the finish, the material is polished aluminum. If the penny leaves a streak of copper on the item, then the surface is harder than the copper and the piece has been anodized. Due to these reasons, I would definitely want a hard anodized 7075-T6 chassis, if I was to upgrade.

Yes, I agree, the DEX8T chassis looks real nice. I think anything close to this would be great, but maybe a bit more material for strength, as this is for a basher, and the DEX8T chassis is more for racing, but have heard the DEX8T was very durable. The more milling in the right places will lighten it up and still keep the chassis durable and strong enough. The amount of milling would depend on the company making the chassis and the R&D testing to ensure this was done correctly. A 3mm 7075-T6 chassis would probably be enough I think, as 7075 is much stronger than 6061. Here's a quick look at the difference:

General Mechanical Properties of 6061 Aluminum (T651 Bare)
Tensile Strength – 45,000 psi
Yield Point – 40,000 psi
Brinell Hardness – 95
Elongation at Break – 12%
Shear Strength – 31,000 psi
Strength to Weight Ratio: 115 kN-m/kg

General Mechanical Properties of 7075 Aluminum (T651)
Tensile Strength – 83,000 psi
Yield Point – 74,000 psi
Brinell Hardness – 150
Elongation at Break – 10%
Shear Strength – 48,000 psi
Strength to Weight Ratio: 196 kN-m/kg

Summary – 6061 vs 7075 Aluminum Alloy
In general, when looking to compare 6061 versus 7075 aluminum alloys, 6061 is considered by many to be highly versatile for a wide variety of general purpose mechanical applications. 7075 is one of the strongest aluminum alloys available and while its increased cost and tougher workability may come across as obstacles, 7075 alloys are worth their price tag when it comes to applications in which its increased strength and toughness are crucial.

The difference between a 7075-T6 chassis and Arrma's stamped 6061 aluminum chassis would be a much bigger difference than the mechanical properties shown above, so yes, I do think a 3mm 7075-T6 chassis would be thick enough.

Great info about Marhor designing a V3 Talion top brace. Although I am not sold on the tower to tower brace, Thomas P uses them on all his Arrma's, so maybe they do work, but Thomas does not upgrade his chassis braces or shock towers. I do agree, Carbon Fiber shock towers, aluminum chassis braces and a Markhor top brace does sound kind of invincible though, and all this w/o a big weight penalty.

Damn, sorry to hear your comments about the carbon fiber parts. I had to massage my Kraton shock towers a bit, the front more (some light sanding on the bottom + a couple of holes also). I had a perfect size round file for the holes, so that helped. I have not installed my Talion c/f parts yet, but was hoping they would take even less massaging than my Kraton towers, but it sounds like that may not be the case. I hope his c/f steering ackerman, steering tabs and front plate for my Talion fit well. I did have a couple of small marks on the outside (one side only) of my Kraton rear shock tower, but the front was fine (no marks at all). I do agree, maxspeedparts could have had a bit better job with quality control. The price, shipping and no duty costs were great though.

Personally, I thought a 3mm 7075-T6 chassis would be a huge upgrade from the stamped aluminum Arrma 6061 chassis. I see M2C makes a Mugen chassis which is 3.25mm:
https://www.absolutehobbyz.com/M2C-Racing-Mugen-MBX7-Truggy-Chassis-w-Skid-Plates_p_507178.html

Tekno does use a 4mm chassis, but Tekno has always built stronger than others. I see even though the Tekno chassis is 4mm, many areas have been milled and lightened to much less thickness than 4mm.
https://www.ebay.ca/itm/Tekno-RC-1-8-EB48-4-Buggy-LIGHTENED-MAIN-CHASSIS-4mm-Frame-7075-Aluminum/372031080280?_trkparms=aid=222007&algo=SIM.MBE&ao=2&asc=40971&meid=b9563f6b8e474ef8874fadf38828c8bb&pid=100005&rk=1&rkt=3&sd=372336932197&itm=372031080280&_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851

A 4mm 7075-T6 Arrma chassis if milled and lightened like the Tekno chassis above or same as other high end truggy kits would be unbelievable for both strength and lightness, if proper R&D testing is done. However, if no milling is done and to help keep costs down, just a 3mm thick 7075-T6 chassis plate should be strong enough, especially compared to the stock chassis. However, if any milling is done to lighten chassis, I do agree a 4mm chassis should be used. I see even TLR 8IGHT-E uses a 4mm chassis, which are known to also be very durable.

I noticed in Xtreme's Racing site that some of the towers in their pics looked like the holes were not smooth/finished and maxpseedparts had all the other carbon fiber parts also available, plus he was able to give me a really good package deal, etc, so I went with them. Let us know how the Xtreme Racing tower goes.

I agree, the sealing of the c/f top edges are more for the buggy, as the front shock tower is exposed, but yes, I agree, it still wouldn't hurt to do this, and could add extra durability in the long run for our Arrma c/f parts. Just a small amount of ca glue will seal the edges.

Very cool. Good find. If racing, that looks like a great option having a carbon fiber chassis (super light and strong). Most 1/8 scale chassis have a front kick up plate, usually about 8 degrees. More kick-up on the front makes the car go better through bumps, and makes it jump better, specially on jumps with rough uneven faces. More kick-up also reduces steering, specially steering response, as it calms the car down, and makes it smoother. The car will transfer more weight, as the front will rise when accelerating and lower under braking. This can have the effect of making it easier to brake around hairpins as the weight is transferred to the front, and the rear slides round. Less kick-up makes the car more responsive, and better for smooth and for high traction tracks. The car will be more stable on high traction tracks due to less weight transfer. So yes, if Racing, having no front kick up plate can definitely affect the handling. The other benefit I would see with a front kick up plate is less wear and tear under the front part of the chassis, as front chassis would probably bottom out more. Having no front kick up plate would also affect the truggy getting up and over things, as it would not slide over obstacles as easily, and if bashing, this would have a negative impact. If speed runs only, actually having no front kick up plate might be better, as the front end might be a bit lower and air could not underneath as easily. Just a thought...

A complete carbon fiber setup might probably be real nice for the track, lots of weight saving and mild flex. There's is a huge difference though between racing on a track and bashing doing huge jumps, where should we compromise ?

My plan is to use 7075-T6 chassi braces and 7075-T6 shock towers (or carbon fiber) together with a top brace. I'm really trying to get rid of the tower to tower brace. Using only strong chassi braces does not seem to help chassi flex altogether, olds97_lss writes
"My buddy has the HR front/rear alloy chassis braces. Even with those on his talion, if you block up the front/rear of the chassis under the nose, you can easily see flex in the center. With as much flex that remains, it still bends center dog bones on a fairly frequent basis. The only way to get away from that is to either run the tower to tower brace or fashion up an X brace type system that has braces going from the center diff top down to the front/rear of the chassis. Would definitely want to have alloy center diff towers and cap though. Or, just go with the tower to tower brace."

Now, how much flex is allowed ? I don't really mind the chassi flexing as long as it doesn't bend. I know it's not nice to compare Arrma to Traxxas but the E-Revo plastic chassi sure flexes a lot but it goes back to shape. Perhaps we need a Talion plastic/delrin/acetal chassi

Enough with the ramblings......
Agreed, the 7075-T6 is the toughest alloy. Even though 7075 is more dense, we also know that anodizing should'nt be a problem.
We also know that choosing 7075-T6 and choosing a hard anodize is more expensive.
So a 3mm non lightened chassi or a 4mm lightened chassi 7075-T6 is about settled, also the design of the DEX8T chassi plate ?

Recieved my Outcast/Kraton Voltage Hobbies rear shock tower yesterday, wow that is just great craftsmanship. Now Voltage Hobbies also seem to be a small business but as we know they make plenty of Arrma parts. They seem to be real busy with developing and making new parts and the Talion V3 page does expand. They have experience with both 7075-T6 and anodizing, would be nice to get them aboard on making a chassi. As mentioned earlier though the Talion V3 might not be the most common Arrma chassi.