Question For the Racers.

[6 Fingered Man]

So i got the furry on the track for the first time last week. My driving is a bit rusty but i was still able to get around the track better than i expected. But i am noticing a couple issues and before sinking money into expensive parts for small gains I need to fix the big stuff in my setup (and driving!!).

The car seems to handle good mid corner and seems to exit very well. I can maintain a maintenance throttle thought he corner and can be full throttle before exiting the turn fully in almost every turn. The two big issue i was having where on corner entry and with jumping.

The bigger issue that i was having was with how much i had to slow the truck down off the front strait and to enter turn one without spinning out, and i would still spin it almost half the time. It seemed that unless i started backing off the gas about halfway down the front straight the thing wold just spin when i turned it in. If i got it into mid corner it tracked well and i could maintain speed and accelerate out with no problem. On entry it jut kept loosing the back end. Im not sure what I'm doing or how to fix it.

Then Jumping, it wants to float the front end, almost like the wind gets under it and it is like it stalled out int eh air when it get vertical like that. I have the battery pushed forward and feel i may need to get a title more weight over the front or change my driving style so i can get the thing more consistent in the air. I have to double things i could triple and role a jump i should double because it floats the front and stalls then comes up short.

If i can fix these two things i will be able to turn consistent laps, and the only way to get fast is to be consistent. After all, how can you make a changes to your laps if you can't repeat them.

Thanks in advance.

 

[DBBD]

I don't race RC cars. In fact, I have really only been involved with them for a little over a year. However, I am a big short track racing fan (sprint cars, modifieds, etc) and grew up around race cars. I can't really speak to the jumping, and I imagine the weight would have to be fairly balanced on all four corners on an off road track.

It sounds like an interesting dilemna. On one hand, the rear end may be whipping around on you because there is too much weight in the front. If you push weight more forward to resolve the jumping issue, you could make this problem worse.

I am guessing the turn where you have the problems is the fastest turn and when you back off, or brake, going into the turn the weight transfers to the front causing the back to get light. If you get on the accelerator before the truck settles then you could be inducing a "loose" condition by your driving style.

I would mess around with some of the shock spacers, maybe try raising/lowering the front or back of the body. Maybe different weights of shock oils as well. I really don't know what the rules are for you but I am sure it's a balancing act to get the truck consistent.

The other thing I would do is consider this small scale off road racing and reaearch setups for the full size trucks and see how they handle it. Maybe you will find something that you can apply.

I probably didn't help much, but hopefully spurred some thoughts until someone with real RC racing experience comes along.

 

[6 Fingered Man]

@DBBD Thanks for the reply man. I have been involved in racing most of my life too. I grew up racing motocross and have been racing motorcycles since about 2002 when a shattered leg got me of the MX bikes and onto a superbike.

The RC stuff is way different for so many reasons, The biggest one for me is that you get no feel or feedback. Im sure the good guys develop a sixth sense for what the car is doing but for the beginner it seems to be trial and error.

The corner I'm having the issue in is not the fastest turn, it's actually a tight U, but it is the biggest breaking turn. The issue is before i get back onto the throttle, before apex, where i would still be trail breaking in normal racing. I agree with you its probably driving style for two reasons. 1st, I'm not very good, 2nd, the fact that the car tracks well mid corner on maintenance throttle and that it can exit the turn while holding a line fine leads me to think the stock setup is decent.

I wonder if a four small scales would let me dial in the weight distribution, like postal scales, or head shop scales.

I wonder are there options on the brake setup? These things brake only with the rear wheels. That is the only corner i use the brakes in, and when i back off midway down the straight i don't need to use the brake. Huh.. .. . That makes some sense. Is the strength of the brake adjustable? I may try to mess with the brake tomorrow.


In reality i probably need to just drive more...

 

[Unusual RC]

Nice topic!

I still want to try to race my fury's in the near future against other brand cars. At this moment I race only against other (modified and stock) Fury's.

First a question: are you talking about the stock Mega Fury, BLS or BLX?

Before I can get into detail I need to know your ride (my best guess would be the stock Mega, because of your first issue...)

In general a RC car can be tuned like a full scale car, and mostly even beyond!

The biggest game changer for handling is changing the tires.
The stock Fury dboots tires on all types of Fury's have a bad thread and very stiff sidewalls.
At the time that was for me the reason to go for the (nowadays discontinued) Mojave version: identical to the Fury chassis, different body and wheels. Those wheels are better than the stock Fury's.
But compared to my soft compound Medial Pro off-road racing tires, they are still quite bad.
Just popping a set off (example) Proline tires under your car will make it handle like it is a different car!
In general you can say tires are responsible for 75% of the enhanced handling you can get with your rc car!

The problem you have with taking jumps is called parachuting! All RC 1/10 scale short course trucks have this problem because of the very large body (the parachute).

Racing guys add venting holes to their bodies to make this less of an issue. Even companies as proline have special SCT vented bodies to make jumping better.
Changing the weight distribution will have almost no effect on jumping, but will have a big effect on the track handling!

 

[6 Fingered Man]

Thanks for the reply Unusual! I apologize in advance, this will be long but i JUST got home from racing and want to unoad while my mind is fresh!!!!! I had a BLAST.

Parachuting makes sense. I will try and remove the windows... May be a good start. And it is a mega with a brushless and adjustable turnbuckles added as well as a metal front plate.

So today I raced it!! Had a Fing BLAST!!

They changed the track and unveiled a whole bunch of new issues. This track is far more technical.

First, like you said, was tires. The old track was blue grove. So the good surface was helping to mask just how bad the tires where. The new surface was good hard packed clay but definitely had not taken any rubber in and was a little damp. There was wet spots in some the off track sections. So with the huge decrease in over all traction i had to drive VERY carefully.

So question 1.
What do you guys use for tires, what wheels fit? I almost bought a set of SC10 4x4 wheels with J Concepts Barcodes on them but they where $35 a pair and i figured i may be able to do better and also i wanted to ask you guys what wheels you have found that work well?? Snowball Classic is next week and i want to show up prepared!!!

As for the race I had issues... But I only had one technical issue.

I puled out the screw for the rear captured turn buckle and ovaled out the hole. The captured setup was slightly to large. I did not notice but apparently when the suspension was fully collapsed if cause the captured end to hit the trans and eventually ovaled out the hole and then the screw pulled out. So i had to epoxy a ball end ball in and make the swap from captured to ball end.

Once i fixed this i immediately noticed that the rear suspension moved more freely.

The handling issues where far harder to solve (read remain unsolved).

So the brakes are unusable with my setup. I don't know if it the way the ESC applies them or if its on my setup but i can't use them. I must coast to slow down or i go sideways or spin.

The less preload i had in the truck the better it would corner, the worse it would jump.

I refreshed the shock oil with 35 weight. Seamed to be an improvement. I have the shocks on the inner hole.

In the end i ran Ok. A first in the first heat, a second in the second heat, and a third in the main.

My best lap of the day was a 15.4, consistent 15.4's would have been GREAT laps and would have got mt to the front if the pack in SC 2wd modified expert ( i raced novice) but my average lap was 24.5 so that will show just how much trouble i was having with consistency.
Tires are the next step, I also need to upgrade the shocks to something that will allow me more adjustment with preoad. I want to experiment with spring rates. Also what are good sag numbers? What shocks do you guys use?

Also my gearing is not good. I am using a 3100kv motor. Stock gearing. Any hints on gearing to try?

If you finished this book thanks for reading and thatnks in advance for any advice!!!

 

[Unusual RC]

It is cool to have a single track.
Since you have to set-up for each different track, this makes it a lot less complicated.

Tires
For each type of soil/track you have a tire that works best.
Unfortunately, not every manufacturer is clear about which track type will suit a particular tire best.
A good way to find out is of course google, or http://www.rcshortcourse.com.
While our forum is very nice, it is the home for mostly bashers, not racers

For example, this is my stock BLX Mojave. I replaced the stock tires with the Medial Pro VELOX, and instantly I had much better handling on loose dirt. They even work in sand, but not optimal.
On hard pack dirt/clay you need less big threaded tires for example.

This will enhance the handling to a maximum of 75% what can be reached with hop-up parts.
The next 25% is better shocks, wheel/suspension settings and adding swaybars.
For wheel and suspension settings, the BLX platform has more options to make changes. You can upgrade your MEGA to these parts.

Stock motor vs. brake
The reason you do not have good braking power is because of the stock motor:

Above is mine after just two lipo packs 2S.
The black powder was before these packs one of the brushes....

I had an old, but fairly good (for a brushed motor) motor, which I popped in instead:

This one has replaceable brushes, Neodymium magnets for more torque, and in despite being a 21T motor more RPM.
Instantly I had more speed, better torque and above all finally braking power.
On tarmac I could block both wheels easily, which was not possible with the stock motor.

Of course I would recommend to upgrade to brushless, but if you are on a budget...

 

[Jerry-rigged]

Racing is fun, and a whole 'nuther ball of wax, vs bashing...

I don't have a fury, so my tips are general -

1- Tires - check out what tires the local fast guys are running, and buy those same tires. $35 a pair get pricey, but is about right for good tires. Ask if they are "saucing" (if the track allows) and follow their recipe. Saucing is putting some kind of traction compound or rubber softener on the tires. It can really help, but so tracks don't allow it. Liquid Wrench or Simple Green are two popular tire sauces... Note that if you go forward in racing, tires will be one of you biggest "consumable" money pits. If you really need to save a few bucks, buy one compound harder than the fast guys are running - if they run super soft, you run soft. This will get you a few extra races out of the tires. Plus, as the track grooves up, the tires needed will change, which = more money. Best advice - find a local Facebook page or internet forum/group where local racers sell their gear. Watch the boards, and you will be able to pick up a box of tires - most will be near 100% tread - for about $100. Sounds like a lot of money, but you can often get 4 to 10 SETS for $100, depending on why they are selling. When I got my Talion, I was able to pick up 5 sets of (truggy) tires, and a 2-wire transponder, for $125, from a local forum. The guy lived 15 minutes away, had not raced in a year, and was trying to clear a closet. Common story. Plus, local guy, the tires worked on my local track.

2-Brakes - when the rear end come around entering the corner, you are locking up the rear wheels. Brake earlier, then ease off on the brakes before you start to turn. You may need to get a ESC that allows programming and soften up the brake power. Also suspension changes can help, firm up the front end, soften up the rear. But that may hurt the truck elsewhere on the track, it is a compromise game.

3- Gearing - Just play with it. Watch the temps. You said it was wrong, what was bad? Not enough top end? (add teeth) Not enough acceleration to clear the jumps? (remove teeth) Spinning the tires too much? (add teeth / loosen slipper). If you are gonna race, you will end up with a bunch of pinions, that is just how the game is played. Be glad they are kind of cheap. Oh, and what 3100kv motor? you may need a motor with a bit more torque, or maybe with a bit more RPM. Gearing is really only for small changes, if you need a big change, you need to re-motor.

4 - Slow is Faster! So yeah, you can turn a 15.xx when the stars line up, but then the next 5 laps are 30's as you try to repeat that same sweet line. Yeah, I've been there... Instead, slow down and work on turning consistent 23's. Slow down early for the corners. Roll the triple instead of trying to double-single it. Set your throttle EPA to 80% or even 60%. Move over and let the fast guys fly buy. Make it your goal to go 5 laps without spinning or needing a marshal. Then shoot for 10 laps. Once you can get around the track without needing marshals, then you can start adding speed - SLOWLY! Very soon, you will notice your average is in the 20's, with your hot lap in the 19's. Keep you hot laps within a second or three of your average. Stay consistent. Seriously. Also - this will make it easier to tune the car. Consistency shows handling errors much better than hot laps.

5 - Last - Have fun! Racing can be a blast, but it can also be frustrating has heck. Try to keep it fun, run your own race. Try not to stress over getting lapped by the local hot kid. Find the guy that is making the same lap times as you, and try to stay ahead of him. Then work on the next guy...

My .02,
Jerry

 

[6 Fingered Man]

Thanks Jerry,

I needed that

I have been racing in one form or another for over 20 years. I currently race an Ultralight Superbike with CCS. I have had the conversation 1000 times with beginner riders. Slow is fast, till you get fast, then fast is fast, and now full circle.. Someone has had that talk with me...

I should order some gearing. My gearing is "wrong" because the truck seems to have flat spots when i don't want them. If i where gearing fro try to hit top speed at the end of the straight then I'm probably about right. I would trade some straight away speed to be a bit more "on the pipe" for some of the important jumps.

What gear do you start experimenting with? The little one to get in the ball park then the big one for fine tuning? Anyone know what the stock gearing is on a fury mega?

Good advice about the tires, and yes. The pits stunk of simple green. Seems that is what these guys are doing. I though they where just obsessed with clean tires haha. Thats not a joke. I actualy said to my wife and kid "these guys have the dirtiness cars with the cleanest tires that i have ever seen."

I do not know if i have brake adjust on my ESC. I did have the though of putting some foam behind my trigger, so at like 75% throttle i hit the foam and have to squeeze hard to hit 100%. Seems, at least at this level, backing it in is not an option.

Its hard, the track change was discouraging because i felt i was getting a handle on it. But it will be good long term to build an adaptable skill set now.

 

[Jerry-rigged]

For the gears, start with the pinion (small motor gear) If that gear size gets out of range, then look at swapping the spur (big gear with slipper). And I agree that I try to gear for the infield, and not stress about being the fastest guy on the main straight. At least, not till it matters.

And LOL on the "Clean tires"

What motor / ESC are you running? You said your truck is the Mega (Brushed) but above you said you are running brushless? Different ESC's have different braking options.

 

[Unusual RC]

Thanks Jerry,
I do not know if i have brake adjust on my ESC. I did have the though of putting some foam behind my trigger, so at like 75% throttle i hit the foam and have to squeeze hard to hit 100%. Seems, at least at this level, backing it in is not an option.

If you have the stock MEGA Esc, there is no option to adjust the braking power.
But it works as a brake (it does not engage reverse as what some people think, it is actually a proportional brake).
The stock 15T motor (especially on ni-mh batteries) is just not powerful enough to give sufficient braking power.

 

[6 Fingered Man]

Thanks Guys.

So my motor is a 3100kv 4P 540 brushless combo with a 60a ESC. There is a way to program it i am sure, but I'm less worried about that right now after my last trip out with them.

I think its time to focus on reliability so that we can get in the driving time we need.... And tires... The issue racing an Arrma here is that the place we race at does not cary Arrma parts. It can make for short driving sessions...

So this week at the track i broke a rear hub carrier, we also popped off the shock cap's on both the fury at least once and broke the front plate that the steering rack mounts too. So i just ordered the Hot Racing aluminum hub carriers, the aluminum lower front plates, and now i need to get shocks.

So my questions today are what do you guys use for shocks and what wheels fit these things? Are all the SC tires universal and did arrma change the fury wheels at some point in production?

Should this be a new thread? am i off topic?

 

[Skaxis]

Thanks Guys.

I think its time to focus on reliability so that we can get in the driving time we need.... And tires... The issue racing an Arrma here is that the place we race at does not carry Arrma parts. It can make for short driving sessions...

So this week at the track i broke a rear hub carrier, we also popped off the shock cap's on both the fury at least once and broke the front plate that the steering rack mounts too. So i just ordered the Hot Racing aluminum hub carriers, the aluminum lower front plates, and now i need to get shocks.

If you're going to race Arrma, you're going to need to keep a number of spares for commonly broken parts. I keep on hand at least 1 set of each thing I've broken in the past, 2 if they're cheap. I also have a screw kit from R/C Screwz.

So my questions today are what do you guys use for shocks and what wheels fit these things? Are all the SC tires universal and did Arrma change the fury wheels at some point in production?

Should this be a new thread? am i off topic?

The best shocks I've found for the Fury are the Integy MSR11. Check your track to make sure they'll allow you to use non-stock shocks.

SCT wheels are NOT universal. The Arrma offset is unique, as are most brands. So I suggest that you use Arrma wheels. Tower Hobbies has them on sale for $2.99 sometimes, and $7.99 even more frequently so they're wicked cheap if you're patient.

The tires are pretty personal choice. Ask around at your track what the popular tire and compound are. I run JConcepts Pressure Points for the simple fact I got them for CHEAP! ProLine Electrons in clay compound are the popular tire at my local track.

Good luck with your racing!