Talion Racing specific upgrades?

[Jerry-rigged]

Here’s #2 & 3. You can see they break right through the hole for the screw. There’s only about 1/8” of material taking all the load so it’s a clear weak point. I think with a minor design change to the geometry here and the plastic brace would be just fine. Then again maybe it’s the design intent...
Like I said I’ve got a design I want to try out, so we’ll see.

Are those V1/V2 braces? I thought the V3 got rid of that nut hole...

 

[Forker45]

Are those V1/V2 braces? I thought the V3 got rid of that nut hole...

They’re V3. Listed as AR320445 in manual. But getting rid of the nut hole is what needs to happen...

 

[jlitch]

Its all in your setup man. Me, having gone to this new local track for the first time and being setup for a small rutted tight track the gearing was off, but this little bugger turned, jumped and handles just as well as the pack of Tekno's I was up against. The talion can be a real contender in the right hands. Before this race I got a setup station and that made a huuuuge difference with how the truck jumps, now its flat and smooth as long as the throttle inputs are done right.

 

[Sledgehog]

Those some Blockades you running? I need to get some wheels/tires in the near future and most of the guys at my track swear by the blocks or holeshots depending on how dry/wet the track is that day.

 

[jlitch]

Buckshots in the M3 compound they work pretty good with a little fluff on the surface. The track was very loamy I wished i had some SS City Blocks for that. They (CityBlocks) hook up really well if you are unsure of what to run for the conditions.

 

[Sledgehog]

What punch setting you guys using? Do you change it according to the track or is there a recommended setting for a racing environment.

 

[Jimbobjr]

That track is awesome.

 

[Sledgehog]

Here's the track I'll be running my Talion on. 1/8th track is about 20 seconds in.

 

[Forker45]

I’m running factory punch setting, I haven’t tried anything else to be honest.

I ran pretty good at club race Saturday placing 3rd in class of 3 Etruggy and 2 nitro. I ended up stripping a hex on one of my proline wheels in the Main and didn’t realize until I cleaned up everything when I got home. It seemed to have some strange handling and jumping beahavior and I think it must have been because of the hex.

 

[Sledgehog]

I've read online that the factory punch (5 I think is default?) is basically "get what you give" on the throttle. If that's so I don't see the need to try to raise it up any, specially on the track I'll be running on. There's plenty of run up room for the big jumps.

 

[Forker45]

Before this race I got a setup station and that made a huuuuge difference with how the truck jumps,

@jlitch Curious what setup station you got? I'm going to try dialing the suspension in on my V3 by going to the Kraton shock towers & shocks with better pistons. I found some Team Durango setup sheets online and want to see what else I can get out of this guy before I go buy a race kit. I've done really well considering the suspension is basically set up for road running with the shock angle and heavy oil/springs. I think I can get just a bit more with more travel from the Kraton setup and a setup station would be great for doing this methodically.

 

[Forker45]

Just wanted to give an update with results of running the Talion with Kraton towers & shocks. It really improved how the truck handles and jumps, especially the rougher high speed sections. I think the improvement is directly related to the increased rebound travel as well as the more truggy style shock angle. I can now hammer through rough sections that I had to previously take it easy because the rear end would be bucking through it. I’m running Tekno 6093 springs on the front shocks to get the ride height correct because it was still too high w/ no preload on the Kraton springs. I also have Tekno 6083 springs for the rear but didn’t install them yet since I got the ride height I wanted with the Kraton springs.

I’m still off the pace 1-2sec of the real fast guys with kit trucks so I may try a couple other things. The Amazon servo is still strong but I think I’m going to get something stronger and faster. I set the truck up per some DEX8T setup sheets I found but didn’t get chance to set the droop, so that could help. I also want to change shock oils (maybe pistons too) and diff fluids per the setups I found and see what happens. I did manage to make 3rd of 5 trucks yesterday though. ??

 

[Sledgehog]

Awesome! Please keep the updates coming!

 

[Yonic]

I don't really race, only "practice". but i was keen to make my Talion do as best as i can with her on a track. The biggest issue i had is the speed in tight corners, it just didnt have enough grip in the front. My understanding is that this is the result of the V3 (and 4) Talion have the weight shifted to the back (it's the only one in the family that have that chassis arrangement), which is a great thing for stability, but bad for having the weight up front for cornering.

After a lot of research I think i solved it and the car handles corners much much better (while still being way more stable on the straights than my Typhon). I changed the droop to be lower on the front by about 8mm than the back, this shifts weight to the front while cornering, i also moved the roll center higher up on the back (by shortening the camber link) so the front will lean more than the back.

Those 2 things was what made the Talion perform so much better on a track for me.

 

[Forker45]

I found the Hudy off-road set up “bible” to be a very good read. It seems to be the standard from what I found.

https://www.teamxray.com/teamxray/showfile.php?file_id=4461


When you say droop do you mean ride height or droop as adjusted by the down travel screws? From what I understand adding droop (downward travel) will help front bite under power because it will help keep the tires in contact w the ground while turning. Less droop will give more rear traction at the cost of turning. Another factor in turning (under power or off) is weight of diff oils. Thicker will give more front line stability and traction but at a cost of oversteer under power and pushing off power. The thick oils in the car from factory are definitely not ideal and that’s why my next step is going to be changing them out.

Another good reference would be the DEX8T setup sheets since that gives a perspective of how Team durango guys were running their Truggies

http://site.petitrc.com/setup/durango/SetupSheetsDurangoDEX8T.html

I’m also curious what change you made to the rear link? Did you only change the camber or did you move where it was mounted in the upright and shock tower?

 

[Yonic]

By droop i meant the amount of down-travel the shocks have from the ride height (what in HUDY is called downstops). I set it so the fronts have less down-travel. (as for ride height, i set it to 45mm - measured with the Katars tires)

The effect of it is the opposite of what you described, adding droop to the front will reduce front bite under power, because of two reasons:

1. With more droop at the front, the front will lift more under power, moving the weight balance of the car to the rear, adding traction there and reducing it from the front.
2. With less droop, the car (or the axle with the least droop) will lean downwards during a turn, putting more weight on the outside tire, as visible in the animation on this page. as the inside suspension doesn't "have" more travel to give during a turn, it forces the outside side to lower. it's hard to explain, but easy to see on a car while turning.

In short, the axle with less droop will have more steering, and regarding the front, it will give more steering both on power (because of point 1) and regardless of power (because of point 2)

As the article i linked states:

if one end of the car has less downtravel than the other, that end will be forced down more in a turn, which makes for more grip at that end ... Very little downtravel at the front will give a lot of steering

I'm not sure how we can use the Durango sheets, as the Talion is so different, the weight balance is placed rear-wards, the shocks, pistons, towers.. all is different. BTW, both the sheets on that page shows considerably less droop on the front than the rear, which is the opposite of what the Talion have in stock form, the front shocks are longer than the rear, so if you set the droop screws to the max travel of the shocks (minus some.. to guard the shocks from over extending), then you have much more droop on the front than the rear - not sure how is it with your Kraton towers..

 

[Yonic]

As for the roll center. I change the mounting point of the camber link on the shock tower.

In stock form it was mounted on the lower inner hole, i moved it to the lower outer hole. This will not effect roll center when the suspension are neutral, but as the suspension compress it will make the roll center higher, which will stop the roll early in the turn on that end of the car (the rear), which will make the front end of the car to roll more in comparison (we don't have front roll center adjustments on the Arrma cars, so the front cannot really changed, we can only change the back end, and so it changes relative to the front)

I think this made less effect on the steering compared to the droop setting. but i did it anyway because i wanted as much steering as i could get. I donno, it might be marginal.

 

[Forker45]

Sorry about that I definitely got the droop effects backwards. Thanks for clearing it up.

I haven’t adjusted the rear link either because I’m still getting a baseline with the new setup and don’t want to change too much at once.

I understand about the DEX8T sheets being different but for me it was better than nothing and a good starting point for fluids and ride height.