Sensorless ESC with Sensored Motor?

[Steve]

Looking for help:
Can I run a sensored motor with a sensorless ESC?
And vice versa, a sensored ESC with sensorless motor?
Thanks!
~Steve

 

[slick2500]

Most sensored ESC's have the ability to run both sensored and sensorless motors. As far as I am aware you can run a sensored motor just fine on a sensorless ESC, it would be just like running a sensored ESC and sensored motor without the sensor lead.

 

[Steve]

Most sensored ESC's have the ability to run both sensored and sensorless motors. As far as I am aware you can run a sensored motor just fine on a sensorless ESC, it would be just like running a sensored ESC and sensored motor without the sensor lead.

Thanks. I asked this question at a track and found 2 guys who said they have been running sensored motors with sensorless ESCs. Both are regulars at the podium.

Admin; posted under General Chaos hoping for a quick response.
One doesn't get quick replies, not that I did on this, when posted anywhere else.

 

[Jerry-rigged]

I have a sensored ESC, and a sensored motor, running sensorless... LOL Works just fine. The sensor board in the motor broke. I removed the sensor wire and never looked back. Honestly can't tell the difference running.

 

[Steve]

I have a sensored ESC, and a sensored motor, running sensorless... LOL Works just fine. The sensor board in the motor broke. I removed the sensor wire and never looked back. Honestly can't tell the difference running.

I'm really all over the place on which way I want to go.
Sensoless 150A ESC or sensored 120A ESC.
Thanks for the reply!

 

[Jerry-rigged]

My thought is that Sensors only matters if you are either crawling, or are a top of your town club racer. For everyone else, either you will not notice or not care. Sensor motors really only matter below about 2-4MPH. Once the car is above walking speed, all but the crappy-ist motors and ESC are smooth.

 

[slick2500]

I stuck the BLX 185 system in my Summit and went crawling with it on 4s, didn't even cog.

 

[Steve]

My thought is that Sensors only matters if you are either crawling, or are a top of your town club racer. For everyone else, either you will not notice or not care. Sensor motors really only matter below about 2-4MPH. Once the car is above walking speed, all but the crappy-ist motors and ESC are smooth.

It's a tough call, go overboard with a 150A ESC and 1/8 scale motor or just drop in the Castle Sidewinder.
I'm still looking for a Slash 4wd roller.
Would love to drop the 150A in it.
I know everyone is angry at Traxxas for sticking it to Hobbico/Tower, and I am angry too.

 

[RickyTerzis]

Hi..i am a new user here. As per my knowledge sensored ESC's have the ability to run both sensored and sensorless motors. As far as I am aware you can run a sensored motor just fine on a sensorless ESC.

 

[Steve]

Hi..i am a new user here. As per my knowledge sensored ESC's have the ability to run both sensored and sensorless motors. As far as I am aware you can run a sensored motor just fine on a sensorless ESC.

I finally found a 2200kv motor with 3.17mm shaft, but it's sensored. Most the 2200kv's are 5mm, which means changing spur and pinion.
The hitch is the motor is sensored.
I'm ready to move it from wish list to cart now.

 

[Jerry-rigged]

Most sensored motors can be run sensorless. Which motor are you looking at?

 

[Steve]

Most sensored motors can be run sensorless. Which motor are you looking at?

This one on eBay:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Topselling-...e=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649

Mate this to an existing 80A ESC or move up to a Hobbywing 120A or 150A?

 

[Jerry-rigged]

From your link-

Features:
Sensor-based for excellent torque and low-speed driveability
Compatible with any sensored/sensorless ESC

Also shows max current at 34a, so the 80a esc should work fine.

Are you planning on racing? Mostly the only time people use 17.5 motors is for racing. And if you are planning on racing the 17.5 class you need to make sure your ESC legal. If it has a "Blinky" mode, I think that is what is needed for 17.5 racing.

 

[Steve]

From your link-


Also shows max current at 34a, so the 80a esc should work fine.

Are you planning on racing? Mostly the only time people use 17.5 motors is for racing. And if you are planning on racing the 17.5 class you need to make sure your ESC legal. If it has a "Blinky" mode, I think that is what is needed for 17.5 racing.

The "racing" has been casual, no real rules, other than "be a good citizen". BTW, we're all friends when we race, with everyone pitching in to fix busted cars, lending/trading parts and assembly line repairs so we can get back to the fun of racing. One guy, he's much older and he shakes a bit, so we do his repairs for him.
There are guys running Mamba X ESC's with motors the size of beer cans.
Way over the top, LOL!
I've been happy with the VXL system in my Platinum and the 80A ESC/3900kv combo in the 2WD Slash, so this is just kick-around ideas for a Rustler.
I know, Traxxas has a bad name here for the krap they tossed at Hobbico/Arrma. But I picked up 2 Traxxas' as "rollers" and the Platinum, well, let's just say, after a pal let me take his for a test spin, I just had to have it. I like Arrma and have a Voteks and Raider, but their SC trucks will not take the checkered flag.
You bring up a great point on the Max Amps, [thanks for reminder] I have been forgetting to check that spec.
As such, moving the ESC up doesn't effectively accomplish anything, I'd be better off putting resources into other upgrades.

 

[Jerry-rigged]

If it is a Just for Fun race, why not get something with a bit more oomph? like a 3500kv or 4000kv? With a 2wd buggy, you won't be able to put as much power down as with a 4wd sct, but still, that 17.5 motors are not real strong. Which is the point of that class. Remove HP and make it about tuning and driving.

 

[Steve]

If it is a Just for Fun race, why not get something with a bit more oomph? like a 3500kv or 4000kv? With a 2wd buggy, you won't be able to put as much power down as with a 4wd sct, but still, that 17.5 motors are not real strong. Which is the point of that class. Remove HP and make it about tuning and driving.

With the way the course is set up; acute-angle turns leading to jumps, series of humps, a long S-turn that leads to a U-turn, then one long straight section with a large hill, we have found the low-end kv motors provide the torque and overall control.
As I mentioned, you got me looking into the amp draw of the motors and my 3900kv is in the high 60's.
As I scan through the "classic" SC motor of 3800kv, I am seeing more motors with a 90 or higher amp draw.
I was just thinking kv's, not the entire spec range.
Watching who has the best performing cars, not the over achievers with 1/8 stuff, they are running the 3800kv motors.
I has assumed my 3900 was "close enough" and now know why it really isn't.

 

[slick2500]

Isn't that a 540 can motor? I am assuming you are putting that in a 1/10 scale?

 

[Jerry-rigged]

Watching who has the best performing cars, not the over achievers with 1/8 stuff, they are running the 3800kv motors.
I has assumed my 3900 was "close enough" and now know why it really isn't.

The motor you linked was a 2200kv motor, which is a long way from 3900kv.

With that said, this is for a Rustler, right? I can see low power motors working OK. My old Losi XXCR runs a F540, in a 3000kv flavor. Low amps, decent torque, decent to end. Most folks that see it run are surprised it is powered by a moderate KV 380-sized motor.

 

[Steve]

Isn't that a 540 can motor? I am assuming you are putting that in a 1/10 scale?

Yes.

The motor you linked was a 2200kv motor, which is a long way from 3900kv.

With that said, this is for a Rustler, right? I can see low power motors working OK. My old Losi XXCR runs a F540, in a 3000kv flavor. Low amps, decent torque, decent to end. Most folks that see it run are surprised it is powered by a moderate KV 380-sized motor.

Yes, the 2200 is a ways off the 3800-3900, I've since decided against that.
My head started bouncing around on this when you reminded me to also check the max amps.
I've a 2WD Slash and a Rustler, both rollers from eBay. Both have 80A ESCs, different brands and right now have 3900kv motors.
With the amp draw in the 60's, then looking at 3800, the "typical SC motor", it has amp draw in the 90's.
I found some Hobbywing Quickrun's, but they come on the slow-boat from china, 4-5 weeks out and was not able to find any USA distributors.
I ran a 3100kv on 3S and it was pretty fun. The 3900's on 3S get really squirrely! Much more control on 2S.
I've been undecided wheather to go Hobbywing 120A or 150A ESC, then which motor?
Or the heck with it, just jump on the Castle Creations 1/10 SV3 Sidewinder WP ESC 1410-3800...
Decisions, decisions! Whew!

Addendum to anyone following this thread; Yes, I have the evil basturd Traxxas' and it bothers me what they did to Hobbico/Arrma. I also have 2 Arrma's, Raider and Vorteks and they are my go-to RCs for great bashing. They are beasts!

 

[Steve]

Debate over; ordered the Castle Creations Sidewinder with 3800kv, 3.17 shaft and the RPM cage to hold it.
No tie-straps holding it down this time!