Felony SOLVED? Maybe! My Rear End is as Loose as after a nite at Taco Bell! Why?

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J Mitchel

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As I wore through my original tires, quite evenly front to rear and evenly across the tread front and rear, I was able to do fantastic power slides on a blacktoped and seal coated (you know, that thick black paint you put over older asphalt) school parking lot. I had adjusted the rear camber a bit to get the even wear, but I hit the sweet spot and all was well. Last runs were very late November in dry 45 degree (F) sunshine.
I changed out all four tires to new ones I received in October from Horizon. All original were the white label, all four new ones are the white label.
Today I used the car for the first time with the new tires and same course, same sunny 45 degree weather, same surface, the ass is all over the place.
Instead of nice long arching powerslides around a corner, the rear end breaks loose, and all the way loose to a spin. Almost down to a surprisingly slow speed to have it not happen.

This happened over a 30 minute run period ( running two 6s 4000mAh batteries in parallel) and the tires were warm to the touch after a few minutes of running. The pavement was dry, few leaves, nothing I could see that would make a difference.
The front grips. The back doesn't.

I typically run the car with the throttle limited to 75% by transmitter switch, but had to go to 50% to even drive the car today without it spinning out. I am smooth on and off the throttle, but am used to inducing a slide by a hard turn jumping off the throttle. Now, throttle on, throttle off, slow turn-in, quick turn-in...doesn't matter. Spin out.

Tires are mounted in the correct rotation, BTW.

Ideas? This is not fun anymore!
Thanks,
Jeff in Portland, OR
 
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As I wore through my original tires, quite evenly front to rear and evenly across the tread front and rear, I was able to do fantastic power slides on a blacktoped and seal coated (you know, that thick black paint you put over older asphalt) school parking lot. I had adjusted the rear camber a bit to get the even wear, but I hit the sweet spot and all was well. Last runs were very late November in dry 45 degree (F) sunshine.
I changed out all four tires to new ones I received in October from Horizon. All original were the white label, all four new ones are the white label.
Today I used the car for the first time with the new tires and same course, same sunny 45 degree weather, same surface, the ass is all over the place.
Instead of nice long arching powerslides around a corner, the rear end breaks loose, and all the way loose to a spin. Almost down to a surprisingly slow speed to have it not happen.

This happened over a 30 minute run period ( running two 6s 4000mAh batteries in parallel) and the tires were warm to the touch after a few minutes of running. The pavement was dry, few leaves, nothing I could see that would make a difference.
The front grips. The back doesn't.

I typically run the car with the throttle limited to 75% by transmitter switch, but had to go to 50% to even drive the car today without it spinning out. I am smooth on and off the throttle, but am used to inducing a slide by a hard turn jumping off the throttle. Now, throttle on, throttle off, slow turn-in, quick turn-in...doesn't matter. Spin out.

Tires are mounted in the correct rotation, BTW.

Ideas? This is not fun anymore!
Thanks,
Jeff in Portland, OR
Do you have a video of it, because as you already said this shouldn't be happening (maybe there is something wrong with the car). So unless you changed something else it has to be the tires. Maybe the ones you have currently on are just slightly different. I drove my Felony a few days ago, was quite cold outside (30 F) and the back slides out really easy. I removed the rear wing which doesn't help. If you've done the same I would recommend putting it back on. But it seems to me that the rear wheels of the Felony are a slightly harder compound than the front ones. You can also notice this during launch. My Infraction takes off like a rocket whereas with the Felony I get a lot of wheelsspin. I don't mind it too much because I can use the Felony for slower and longer drifts and the Infraction more for stable speed runs and some high speed drifts.
 
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Check your rear camber again (with batteries in and suspension settled), I notice a few degrees of deviation every time I change wheels.
 
As I wore through my original tires, quite evenly front to rear and evenly across the tread front and rear, I was able to do fantastic power slides on a blacktoped and seal coated (you know, that thick black paint you put over older asphalt) school parking lot. I had adjusted the rear camber a bit to get the even wear, but I hit the sweet spot and all was well. Last runs were very late November in dry 45 degree (F) sunshine.
I changed out all four tires to new ones I received in October from Horizon. All original were the white label, all four new ones are the white label.
Today I used the car for the first time with the new tires and same course, same sunny 45 degree weather, same surface, the ass is all over the place.
Instead of nice long arching powerslides around a corner, the rear end breaks loose, and all the way loose to a spin. Almost down to a surprisingly slow speed to have it not happen.

This happened over a 30 minute run period ( running two 6s 4000mAh batteries in parallel) and the tires were warm to the touch after a few minutes of running. The pavement was dry, few leaves, nothing I could see that would make a difference.
The front grips. The back doesn't.

I typically run the car with the throttle limited to 75% by transmitter switch, but had to go to 50% to even drive the car today without it spinning out. I am smooth on and off the throttle, but am used to inducing a slide by a hard turn jumping off the throttle. Now, throttle on, throttle off, slow turn-in, quick turn-in...doesn't matter. Spin out.

Tires are mounted in the correct rotation, BTW.

Ideas? This is not fun anymore!
Thanks,
Jeff in Portland, OR
Is there too much taco sauce on the surface? JK
I've run different sets of tires and also has a similar result. I'll post the set of rear tires I set up that worked well, back in a bit.
 
@Jmit
As I wore through my original tires, quite evenly front to rear and evenly across the tread front and rear, I was able to do fantastic power slides on a blacktoped and seal coated (you know, that thick black paint you put over older asphalt) school parking lot. I had adjusted the rear camber a bit to get the even wear, but I hit the sweet spot and all was well. Last runs were very late November in dry 45 degree (F) sunshine.
I changed out all four tires to new ones I received in October from Horizon. All original were the white label, all four new ones are the white label.
Today I used the car for the first time with the new tires and same course, same sunny 45 degree weather, same surface, the ass is all over the place.
Instead of nice long arching powerslides around a corner, the rear end breaks loose, and all the way loose to a spin. Almost down to a surprisingly slow speed to have it not happen.

This happened over a 30 minute run period ( running two 6s 4000mAh batteries in parallel) and the tires were warm to the touch after a few minutes of running. The pavement was dry, few leaves, nothing I could see that would make a difference.
The front grips. The back doesn't.

I typically run the car with the throttle limited to 75% by transmitter switch, but had to go to 50% to even drive the car today without it spinning out. I am smooth on and off the throttle, but am used to inducing a slide by a hard turn jumping off the throttle. Now, throttle on, throttle off, slow turn-in, quick turn-in...doesn't matter. Spin out.

Tires are mounted in the correct rotation, BTW.

Ideas? This is not fun anymore!
Thanks,
Jeff in Portland, OR

It's been posted a few times by me and others, Felony has a fat a$$ rear end issue. You can find posts where ppl have tried different diff fluids, weights in front, etc. I have lowered mine with a racked profile lower in front, change the cambers and spring tensions as well as lowered the droop screws. The Felony handles great even better after the tweaks, shots off straight at 100% throttle, BUT don't turn it fast or slow.... it's doing an uncontrolled 180 or 360..... the total opposite of the Infraction behavior in the same hard or soft turns...no spin outs. I have written Horizon Hobby about it.

On the same days when I take out the Felony and Infraction 55-60deg, newer asphalt, the Felony has the rear that swinging around and just oversteers in the rear.....frustrating... With the Felony, I am learning new finger throttle control to try to stop that which I don't like doing because I don't have to with the Infraction.

I do not think it is so much the tires, I have kept my conditions the same with white, silver, back to white Hoons still the same. Tweaks, played with AVC on/off, 10-100%, etc... I will keep working at it but I may in the end make it a speedrunner which is not my taste.

Others here share in your experience there are about two threads on it...different but saying the same thing.
 
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Update 12/24/2020
First, thanks to each of you that replied and offered help. I appreciate that.

I have tried the car again twice, on different asphalt surfaces since my initial post, similar conditions, 45, dry, sunny. Same results. Spin outs consistently. The same left and right, btw.

I double checked the camber and it is top in towards the center of the car a degree or two and so far the tire wear is even. Running the car today, I brought the camber in a bit more, and saw zero change.

It is so bad that the car is just un drivable at more than a walking pace. It really seems like the rear tires are a different compound, but they are labeled and painted as white hoons, same as I had.


I reached out to Horizon support via email just now. I will share the guidance they provide.
Thanks again,
Jeff
 
Merry Christmas.
You need to open your diffs, either rear or middle. Something is wrong.
Suggest going to 200k in the middle and probably 60k in the rear (30k front).

Or as others suggested, you have a bad bearing.
 
Merry Christmas.
You need to open your diffs, either rear or middle. Something is wrong.
Suggest going to 200k in the middle and probably 60k in the rear (30k front).

Or as others suggested, you have a bad bearing.
I appreciate the response. I do. Here is where I am having trouble. Nothing changed except tires. I can see some suspension setting on one side or the other being "off" a bit from manhandling during a tire change, but not both sides. I can't see a bearing "going" during the tire change. I can't see the diff....any of them....needing anything change when like a switch, old tires were great, new tires are not.

I could understand a gradual change. Even if quick....but not instant.
Everything moves easily by hand...no binding or stickiness.

Thanks again,
Jeff
 
As I wore through my original tires, quite evenly front to rear and evenly across the tread front and rear, I was able to do fantastic power slides on a blacktoped and seal coated (you know, that thick black paint you put over older asphalt) school parking lot. I had adjusted the rear camber a bit to get the even wear, but I hit the sweet spot and all was well. Last runs were very late November in dry 45 degree (F) sunshine.
I changed out all four tires to new ones I received in October from Horizon. All original were the white label, all four new ones are the white label.
Today I used the car for the first time with the new tires and same course, same sunny 45 degree weather, same surface, the ass is all over the place.
Instead of nice long arching powerslides around a corner, the rear end breaks loose, and all the way loose to a spin. Almost down to a surprisingly slow speed to have it not happen.

This happened over a 30 minute run period ( running two 6s 4000mAh batteries in parallel) and the tires were warm to the touch after a few minutes of running. The pavement was dry, few leaves, nothing I could see that would make a difference.
The front grips. The back doesn't.

I typically run the car with the throttle limited to 75% by transmitter switch, but had to go to 50% to even drive the car today without it spinning out. I am smooth on and off the throttle, but am used to inducing a slide by a hard turn jumping off the throttle. Now, throttle on, throttle off, slow turn-in, quick turn-in...doesn't matter. Spin out.

Tires are mounted in the correct rotation, BTW.

Ideas? This is not fun anymore!
Thanks,
Jeff in Portland, OR
Stop eating Taco Hell's.
And you wont get the "Runs" anymore. ?‍♂️ That's why you rear end is Loose.
Happens to me also....:ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO:

Seriously, sometimes you hit a bad spot in the asphalt that's got oily crap and this affects the tires traction. One possibility.
I would keep some Simple Green on hand when you go out to bash. Wipe them down well ( it dries fairly quick) and watch the rag get black. The tires pick up fine dirt and soot that you don't see. Simple Green will make the tire sticky. Check the results. Bet you will notice a change. (y) I do this with my Lim and Infr. when out bashing, and I also use SG after every bash and before I put the rig back in the shelf.
Try this and see if there is any difference. BTW, all the Hoon tires need a break in before they run at their best.
You can also try adding more droop at the Fel rear. The Fel. sits taller at the rear ( aprox 3-4mm )due the larger diameter rear wheels. Let it squat more than the front for drifting. The Fel handles much diff than the Inf. and Lim. The final drive is also different. All this assumes that your diffs are ok. I would keep the stock diff oil all around. At least till you sort all out with this issue. If you start changing too much around, you will be chasing a ghost trying to figure it out. Keep it simple. Start with wiping down your wheels with SG during your bashing. Check the results. :cool:
I even wipe down a new set of Hoons out the package. There is residual mold release agent on new rubber. A proper burnout also gets most off. But a good wiping with SG should be done first. I think it helps at least.
 
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I can't tell you why or how it happened but the drivetrain is the drivetrain.
If something is wrong with it, that is where you need to look.

Bearings seize over time, you said it was sitting for a while. Diffs leak or seize if they are assembled wrong.
This isn't magic, failure in drivetrain = check everything in it.
 
I appreciate the response. I do. Here is where I am having trouble. Nothing changed except tires. I can see some suspension setting on one side or the other being "off" a bit from manhandling during a tire change, but not both sides. I can't see a bearing "going" during the tire change. I can't see the diff....any of them....needing anything change when like a switch, old tires were great, new tires are not.

I could understand a gradual change. Even if quick....but not instant.
Everything moves easily by hand...no binding or stickiness.

Thanks again,
Jeff
The best thing would be if you make a short video on your next time out, otherwise it's impossible to say if there's something wrong with your car. The rear end of my Felony is loose as well, but it's very controlled and predictable so it's a lot of fun for me. When you're not able to go much faster than walking speed, there has to be something wrong with the car :)
 
First, I really appreciate everyone's insight. Every problem has a solution.

In the photos here you can see where the camber is...I don't have a camber gauge, but it looks like -2 degrees to me. And it has not changed from the original tires, which ran just fine.
When setting and testing the camber, I have the batteries in the car and I drop the rear end from 4 inches or so to settle the ride height.

I removed the tires last night, prior to setting the camber and taking these photos, and cleaned the rear tires with Simple Green to remove any potential of oil on the tires causing the spin out issue.

The video was shot today. 45 degrees, dry surface. Yes, the surface has some small stones and that does not help the issue, but what you see is the same as when I drive on fresh perfect blacktop. For this video I have the throttle limited to 75%, although I am just moving the car around at a slow speed with no intentional wheel spin.

The rear end slides around super easily. With any speed up it just spin out. No difference left or right turn. Where as for the first set of tires, I could do beautiful powerslides at medium throttle....I mean nice, long arcs of opposite lock steering and controlling the turn with throttle.

I think the car has about 5 hours on it and when I rotate the tires by hand, each end the left and right feels like it moves easily, no binding. Front to rear seems harder to tell what is right because the motor gets involved. But, I can move the front and rear tire pairs easily to move the motor, with the opposite end on the ground and not moving.

Thanks again,
Jeff










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Video of car
 
Yeah, somethings not right. Your rear camber should be as close to zero as possible, getting all the rubber to contact the pavement. The rear is loose, but shouldn't slide that easily
 
Follow Up:
I pulled the center diff. It felt stiff to me, but I have no idea how it is supposed to feel and the oil in there is 100k, compared to the front and rear which is 10k. The bearings moved freely with no concerns. I opened up the center diff...mostly to see what it looked like. OK, the oil is not crystal clear and it looks like there is a bit of metal flake in there, but I think that is probably normal for break in.
I will clean this out and get some new oil 100k oil tomorrow and see what that does.
With the center diff out, the front and rear diffs each turn quite freely ( I turn the left back wheel, the right turns very easily).


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That's normal for the diff. Do yourself a favor and pickup a camber guage, they're less than $10 on Amazon.
 
Next would be your rear diff. Center looks normal.
Suggest to go to 200k in the center but don't change if you liked the way it was driving previously.
 
Follow Up:
I pulled the center diff. It felt stiff to me, but I have no idea how it is supposed to feel and the oil in there is 100k, compared to the front and rear which is 10k. The bearings moved freely with no concerns. I opened up the center diff...mostly to see what it looked like. OK, the oil is not crystal clear and it looks like there is a bit of metal flake in there, but I think that is probably normal for break in.
I will clean this out and get some new oil 100k oil tomorrow and see what that does.
With the center diff out, the front and rear diffs each turn quite freely ( I turn the left back wheel, the right turns very easily).


View attachment 116454View attachment 116455

I have a Felony...you have it all right.... I have the same issue and have changed the fluids to see if it makes a diff, weights and all. No...Tires, springs, camber, droop, etc. I even emailed Horizon Hobby... they said they have no complaints and sounds like what I am trying and those on the forum as the best solutions...then closed the case.

I am still trying different things... it's not you... it's the Felony! Frustrating....
 
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