Felony SOLVED? Maybe! My Rear End is as Loose as after a nite at Taco Bell! Why?

[J Mitchel]

SOLVED! At least by a lot!
Week or two ago, I tried going to 500k in the center diff. That made a slight improvement, but nothing to write home about.
Saturday, I received the gold Hoons for the rear. I could not get fronts. Thinking that the softer compound might do the trick, I tried them. 48 degrees, sunny and dry. No joy and no difference, even once they warmed up, the rear still was all over the place.
I called two local shops and explained my situation and frustration. I went to one of the shops with the car and also showed them the video. The felt the rear diff....turned the rear wheels opposing directions and said it felt like the oil was too light or too little by feel.
I let them know I never changed the rear diff fluid and have about 5-6 hours on the car.
The only diff fluid they had was 50k.
I changed it last night...rear diff only.

Today, I ran the car...same location, same temp, mostly cloudy and it had rained overnight....the ground was wet in most places and there was even a bit of moss on patches of the parking lot.
And the car ran night and day better. Not perfect yet, but drivable and much, much, much better.
The shop said that whether by heat the fluid broke down, or there just wasn't enough of it, the inside wheel must have been spinning and not getting any power to the outside wheel, and just kicking it out in a turn. All I know, is I can use my car again.
While I still have the gold Hoons on the rear today, I will try again tomorrow with the white ones.
I also got some different video...a new Insta 360 One X2. The mount is just a thin sheetmetal strap and is way to bouncy....I will find some other ways to mount the camera, but I thought someone might enjoy anyway.

 

[parcou]

SOLVED! At least by a lot!
Week or two ago, I tried going to 500k in the center diff. That made a slight improvement, but nothing to write home about.
Saturday, I received the gold Hoons for the rear. I could not get fronts. Thinking that the softer compound might do the trick, I tried them. 48 degrees, sunny and dry. No joy and no difference, even once they warmed up, the rear still was all over the place.
I called two local shops and explained my situation and frustration. I went to one of the shops with the car and also showed them the video. The felt the rear diff....turned the rear wheels opposing directions and said it felt like the oil was too light or too little by feel.
I let them know I never changed the rear diff fluid and have about 5-6 hours on the car.
The only diff fluid they had was 50k.
I changed it last night...rear diff only.

Today, I ran the car...same location, same temp, mostly cloudy and it had rained overnight....the ground was wet in most places and there was even a bit of moss on patches of the parking lot.
And the car ran night and day better. Not perfect yet, but drivable and much, much, much better.
The shop said that whether by heat the fluid broke down, or there just wasn't enough of it, the inside wheel must have been spinning and not getting any power to the outside wheel, and just kicking it out in a turn. All I know, is I can use my car again.
While I still have the gold Hoons on the rear today, I will try again tomorrow with the white ones.
I also got some different video...a new Insta 360 One X2. The mount is just a thin sheetmetal strap and is way to bouncy....I will find some other ways to mount the camera, but I thought someone might enjoy anyway.

Thx for the post....I would be adding feedback if I were not in the middle of a home sale.

Out of all the diff fluid I changed, I posted last I left it at 30/100/10. However, there was one person on this forum that crashed his when his ESC went out told me to try:

30/500/60 but I never could find 500 at the time and used what I had. So I am curious if I try that would be the results. I am curious if the shop had any experience with the Felony and what diff fluids they recommended all around outside of what you had on hand? I assume you still 10k in the front

Arrma is bad for not filling the diff cups so on all mine and the Felony I opened all the diffs before running and filled them correctly but still had the same results. This is good news I will see if I can find some 500k maybe give those numbers I told a shot.

 

[jkflow]

You can always mix, 1M and 100k seem easier to find.

 

[Tw3ak3d]

How's your high speed understeer now?

 

[Boggs3010]

Just added 500k and it made a big difference for me. The center diff was half way full. Already have 100k in the rear. Never touched the front diff. Much better handling. New white hoons on too.
Added video not the best. Youtube

 

[parcou]

Just added 500k and it made a big difference for me. The center diff was half way full. Already have 100k in the rear. Never touched the front diff. Much better handling. New white hoons on too.
Added video not the best. Youtube

So you are f/c/r 10/500/100....?

I'm a drifter...not for speed

I really get confused when it comes to diff fluids on the Felony vs. the Infraction v1 since the Felony has different diffs and wider rear tires. On the infraction v1 I have it reverse and dialed in perfect @ 60/100/30. Since the Infraction is a well balanced rig this gives me power upfront that pulls me in the direction I want to go out of slides....no matter how I throw it if I keep the throttle full and steer where I want to go it will line up out the slide and blast in that direction.

I am in the mindset from a few videos I have watched like this one that the heavier fluid up front gives me the performance that I get out of the Infraction. All my testing I have not seen that yet.

So I will have to give 30/500/60 seeing the some you are putting the heavier in the rear.

 

[Boggs3010]

So you are f/c/r 10/500/100....?

I'm a drifter...not for speed

I really get confused when it comes to diff fluids on the Felony vs. the Infraction v1 since the Felony has different diffs and wider rear tires. On the infraction v1 I have it reverse and dialed in perfect @ 60/100/30. Since the Infraction is a well balanced rig this gives me power upfront that pulls me in the direction I want to go out of slides....no matter how I throw it if I keep the throttle full and steer where I want to go it will line up out the slide and blast in that direction.

I am in the mindset from a few videos I have watched like this one that the heavier fluid up front gives me the performance that I get out of the Infraction. All my testing I have not seen that yet.

So I will have to give 30/500/60 seeing the some you are putting the heavier in the rear.

Yes sir. 10/500/100

 

[parcou]

Here's my recipe for a better handling Felony. To balance the low speed oversteer and high speed under steer I focused on front grip since the front tires spin faster, pulling the Felony straight.
1. Added shims to the front upper arms behind the pillows to take out some negative camber (helped with tire wear).
2. Replaced front springs with firmer 32lbf/in infraction springs.
3. Replaced front 160 weight shock oil with 100 weight. (Allows tires to stay planted instead of bouncing over bumps)
4. Adjusted droop screws for a slight front rake
5. Set rear camber to zero, and placed the rear upper link in the lower inboard hole on the shock tower. This creates a progressive negative camber on hard corners.

I can't compare to the infractions "riding on rails" handling, since I've never driven one. But, with the above setup I'm able to easily control my Felony, even on silver Hoons at 30 degrees.

I am trying to find or figure out the shock oil weight you used. Felony manual says 2000cst so that equal to 100wt?

So what is 160wt? This one I am looking for to purchase unless it is listed as CST I cannot find?

 

[Tw3ak3d]

I am trying to find or figure out the shock oil weight you used. Felony manual says 2000cst so that equal to 100wt?

So what is 160wt? This one I am looking for to purchase unless it is listed as CST I cannot find?

View attachment 121153

100w = 1325cst, stock is 2000cst (160w)

 

[jkflow]

Plenty(?) of 2000 out there, just bought some yesterday.

https://pitbullrc.com/collections/lubricants/products/pbxshockdifffluidparent?variant=36166185223

 

[parcou]

Yes sir. 10/500/100

Just checking to see if you had it out again?

I did change to the same diff weights last night. Waiting on the lighter 100wt shock oil for front and stronger front springs so I can test.

 

[parcou]

Since we had an unusual warmer day this weekend, I took the Felony out with the 10/500/100k diff setup not waiting on the front springs to arrive before testing. The chemistry sounds right to lock the center more with 500k and the rear to thicken it up....

However, she still spins out...and easily throws that rear-end around which for me I would call for my taste uncontrollable...no fun. Really frustrating for a nice look rig as it is!

My condition was sunny 54deg, new white Hoons tires, good asphalt surface...

Scratching my head....

 

[L3phturn]

Depends if you are spinning the rears or not. If you run high center fluid and high rear I would expect it to be able to spin both rears and break traction. The question is why are you loose and is that under power or not. If it’s mostly under power, is it spinning both rears and snapping loose?

 

[parcou]

Depends if you are spinning the rears or not. If you run high center fluid and high rear I would expect it to be able to spin both rears and break traction. The question is why are you loose and is that under power or not. If it’s mostly under power, is it spinning both rears and snapping loose?

Thx for the post...

Yes, it is under power...when I am easy on the throttle or move the throttle down in power it does not break away as quickly...more like a slow-motion break at that point.

From a stand-still and I just gun the throttle like I would do the Infraction it will stay straight but that's with AVC on at a high %. If AVC is off it's going to break turn around on a blastoff.

Same example if I get the Felony going 0-xx in a nice straight since I am in a wide-open closed Target parking lot I like to do a wide L-shape drift turn. With the Infraction, no issue will not break in doing so. The Felony is like holding something with your hand when you know it's going to slip...barely have a grip. So doing the same motion if I turn the steering just a nudge too much if that wide L-drift she will break and do a 180 or 360...damn! Same example again if I just burn it heading straight and coast at the end and just turn her around...I have to be careful in the turn as I slow down and no throttle making the turn...will break the rear end comes around.

I am reading, researching trying to find a fix....maybe the OP is cool with his now and the other posted who did the 10/500/100 but no love for me. I will not sell it but I am losing the love for it compared to the Infraction...

#FelonyBlues

 

[parcou]

Here's my recipe for a better handling Felony. To balance the low speed oversteer and high speed under steer I focused on front grip since the front tires spin faster, pulling the Felony straight.
1. Added shims to the front upper arms behind the pillows to take out some negative camber (helped with tire wear).
2. Replaced front springs with firmer 32lbf/in infraction springs.
3. Replaced front 160 weight shock oil with 100 weight. (Allows tires to stay planted instead of bouncing over bumps)
4. Adjusted droop screws for a slight front rake
5. Set rear camber to zero, and placed the rear upper link in the lower inboard hole on the shock tower. This creates a progressive negative camber on hard corners.

I can't compare to the infractions "riding on rails" handling, since I've never driven one. But, with the above setup I'm able to easily control my Felony, even on silver Hoons at 30 degrees.

Never asked in your setup are you stock on all 3 diffs fluids...?

 

[J Mitchel]

I have not been out again yet. Rain in Oregon...it happens. Saturday was nice, but I did RC boating instead. I hope to get out again and see that it was not a fluke. I have not touched the front yet. I want to do one thing at a time, test, test again.
Thanks
Jeff

 

[parcou]

Update

Well, I did add the stiffer springs and lighter shock oil to the front recommended by @Tw3ak3d I was already raked and droop screws set. However, still not golden yet but I do think it still was a well-needed improvement. I have to use far more to almost max AVC to have "somewhat" control over it during a bash. Far more than I would have to use for the Infraction....as stated it's nowhere there yet.

 

[Performance nut]

I curious as to why people are putting soft compound in the back and stiffer springs in the front... this induces understeer. Need softer compound up front and stiffer suspension in the rear.

The diff oil was suggested awhile back. Glad to see that is helping out.

 

[parcou]

I curious as to why people are putting soft compound in the back and stiffer springs in the front... this induces understeer. Need softer compound up front and stiffer suspension in the rear.

The diff oil was suggested awhile back. Glad to see that is helping out.

Hi

Been several diff oils referenced to awhile back which one are you referring to in particular? Thx

Compound? Forgive the newbie ask I am trying to understand this all I'm not sure how all the motion dynamics work I hear it both ways. By compound you mean shock fluid??

 

[Performance nut]

Hi

Been several diff oils referenced to awhile back which one are you referring to in particular? Thx

Compound? Forgive the newbie ask I am trying to understand this all I'm not sure how all the motion dynamics work I hear it both ways. By compound you mean shock fluid??

No worries. Tire compound. Soft compound usually has higher grip but wears faster. That would be the gold hoons. Hard compound is less grip but wears slower. Hardest compound would be white hoons. Silver is the middle of both which is what the Felony came with.

The dynamics is that you are trying to force more steering up front. More weight, softer compound, wider tires, or lowering the front are easy ways to do that. The tougher to understand is springs, sway bars, shock stiffness, and alignments. That requires more math and engineering. Though short answer is stiffer rear springs and sway bar will induce more oversteer.