Kraton Somebody stop me / Kraton v2

[Julian]

Friday night I took my Nero out and ran it under a fence by accident. The fence cut my power line right at the esc. I couldn't believe it. So I ordered a new one / tried to reconnect - the wires are cut right at the esc. Comes Wednesday. I checked out tower hobbies and saw that 60$ off coupon and bought the Kraton V2. This is my 4th 1/8 scale MT and the one reason I got it - weight. It's roughly 5 lbs lighter than the Nero. I also noticed it's a "speed" monster truck according to Arrma. I ordered the TBone racing front bumper & wheelie bar. Now I'm looking at a 6S Lipo battery and wanted some advice on these. I've always run two 2s or3s Lipos. Has anyone run a 6s brick? Is it better or worse than two? Trying to decide. I have three sets of XT90 connector 3s batteries so I should be ok anyway. 40c, 50c and just got SRC 70c Lipos - all 3s 11.1v - still curious if any of you cats run the 6s brick. Getting a 444/oz savox waterproof servo too.

 

[Vanning]

The less you have of battery wire...the better off you are. I recently got rid of my dual 3S batteries and replaced it with 1 6S brick. I also wired in a row of capacitors just for haha's . I have some recorded ESC graphs of the ripple voltage with the dual 3S batteries and all the wire. I will compare it to my one 6S battery with the caps wired inline. Long battery wire is bad for your ESC.....caps help with long battery wire. I also installed a XT90-S. You wont hear these connectors make a huge arc sound when you plug into your ESC. You should be fine with dual batts but I like to play around with stuff to try and make it run better. Sometimes crap connectors and long wire will toast an ESC sooner than later. I use a Mamba Monster X....seems to be pretty tuff already.....I would like to preserve the life of it as long as possible on 6S. Capacitors are known to be great if you have lots of battery wire. Ripple voltage is caused from long battery wire and is bad for the ESC. The extra caps can smooth all that out. Running dual batteries seems to be lots of wire in my opinion.

The Kraton is sweet because it is a speed monster truck. Very cool.

 

[Julian]

Is the runtime any longer with a 6s brick? Is it less weight than two 3s Lipos? If you could choose between the two - what would be your choice? I'm just trying to see if it's worth it to spend the $$.

 

[chalmene]

Vanning is right, less cable the better. Im running 2 3s packs myself, no issues to speak of. Just make sure you secure the two packs together with some gorilla tape or similar to keep them from shifting on each other.

 

[Vanning]

I prefer 1 6S brick over 2 3S in parallel. It's less battery wire and my charger is set up to parallel charge 2 batteries at once....So I can do 2 6S batts at once, rather than doing 2 3S at once.....since I run 6S...this is way better.

More wire between the batt and ESC is harder on the ESC unless you got enough capacitors. Other than that...it's not a big deal. I ran 2 3S 35C's in my Kraton and had no issues. I only ran it a few times but I recently got 2 6S 70C... I'll cut down on connectors and wire. I'm in the process of making a custom battery tray also. If it comes out ok....I'll post up a few pics.

If you want to build a fast rig on 6S....Less wire is always better.....but having 2 3S is fine.

 

[Julian]

I prefer 1 6S brick over 2 3S in parallel. It's less battery wire and my charger is set up to parallel charge 2 batteries at once....So I can do 2 6S batts at once, rather than doing 2 3S at once.....since I run 6S...this is way better.

More wire between the batt and ESC is harder on the ESC unless you got enough capacitors. Other than that...it's not a big deal. I ran 2 3S 35C's in my Kraton and had no issues. I only ran it a few times but I recently got 2 6S 70C... I'll cut down on connectors and wire. I'm in the process of making a custom battery tray also. If it comes out ok....I'll post up a few pics.

If you want to build a fast rig on 6S....Less wire is always better.....but having 2 3S is fine.

Can you pls give me the link for these 2 6S 70c Lipos????? will order them right now bud!!

 

[Julian]

Can you pls give me the link for these 2 6S 70c Lipos????? will order them right now bud!!

I went with a HiTec D345WP 454/oz waterproof servo. Really liking tower hobbies I have to say -99$ minus their 14$ coupon and free shipping.

 

[Vanning]

Can you pls give me the link for these 2 6S 70c Lipos????? will order them right now bud!!

Here is my Kraton now....it's not finished but I have the Turnigy 6S heavy duty installed label down. The entire battery tray is lined with industrial Velcro. The plastic battery clamps are Velcro on to the battery. This Velcro is very strong....both the tape side and the hook and loop side. I got these batteries on Flea Bay. Correction.....I got 60C 120C not the 70C. The person soldered XT90's on for me. I paid $109.95 per battery. the seller is jetimages and he listed it under 5000mAh 6S 60C 120C Lipo Battery 22.2V Heavy Duty 5.5MM EC5 XT90.

Here it is now

And before

 

[Julian]

Here is my Kraton now....it's not finished but I have the Turnigy 6S heavy duty installed label down. The entire battery tray is lined with industrial Velcro. The plastic battery clamps are Velcro on to the battery. This Velcro is very strong....both the tape side and the hook and loop side. I got these batteries on Flea Bay. Correction.....I got 60C 120C not the 70C. The person soldered XT90's on for me. I paid $109.95 per battery. the seller is jetimages and he listed it under 5000mAh 6S 60C 120C LiPo Battery 22.2V Heavy Duty 5.5MM EC5 XT90.

Here it is now

And before

Look at Mamba!!! How many Amps is the monster? I always thought 150a was more than enough. Isn't that why Arrma stopped the 180a and reduced power to 150a? Anyway I will get that fatboy right now.

 

[Vanning]

I don't even know how many amps the Mamba X is. To tell you the truth.....I don't even think they say how many amps it is. I think it's 120 amps but I'm not even sure. Castle Creation pretty much says don't worry about it.....just run it. LOL

I just ran that Leopard motor you see there on a 16T and a 14T pinion on 6S. It reached my 180F limit pretty fast on both gears. I can run that Castle Creation 2200KV motor on a 12T pinion, run just as fast or faster, and barely even reach 140F.I do run a heatsink and fan on it. That Leopard would probably be better on 5S. I thought it would run much cooler and be faster on 16T without a heatsink and fan but it isn't. It would probably be ok on a 12T pinion but why bother if I'm running a 2200KV on 12T and it's faster than the Leopard 1750KV . I'll probably just sell the Leopard motor and try a different one. It gets too hot for my liking....IDK. There is absolutely no literature included with the motor, it doesn't even say what a good temp is to stay under. All you get is the motor in a box. So I always use 180F as my limit.

 

[Typhon#1]

I also run a Turnigy 6s brick in my Typhon. Fits like a glove and it's nice not connecting and charging 2 separate batteries! I also found it to be a better value if you shop for it on Amazon.

Here is a link for a good one https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B01G...ah+6s+lipo&dpPl=1&dpID=51BlJpxfeqL&ref=plSrch

 

[Vanning]

I would get a little more discharge than that one in the link to be more above the recommended minimum. It's bad for the ESC on hard acceleration if your discharge is too low. 30's gives not enough head room. Just my opinion.

 

[helizrnew2me]

i have never owned a 6s lipo . cost is definitely a factor . personally i would rather run 2 3s lipos for a couple reasons .
1- cost- 3s lipos come cheaper
2- cost again , should a 6s lipo fail or get a bad cell its gonna cost alot more to replace then a 3s lipo
3- flexibility- i have other trucks that can run 2s and 3s

 

[Julian]

i have never owned a 6s LiPo . cost is definitely a factor . personally i would rather run 2 3s lipos for a couple reasons .
1- cost- 3s lipos come cheaper
2- cost again , should a 6s LiPo fail or get a bad cell its gonna cost alot more to replace then a 3s LiPo
3- flexibility- i have other trucks that can run 2s and 3s

I have been looking and looking and you are dead on. I'm very nervous about 35-60c 6s too. Want at least 50c to start and my hobby shop has a 75c 6s for 199$. Crazy expensive. I just got some Zippy 60c 2s for my 10 year old. I have 3 sets of 3s batteries with xt90 connectors for the Nero. 40c, 50c & some really nice SRC 70c 6400mah. Think I'm going to stick with them for the Nero and Kraton. If I do get a 4th set / one back up for each - will go with 2 3s for sure - will probably get another 70c set for 140$ and be done.

 

[helizrnew2me]

I have been looking and looking and you are dead on. I'm very nervous about 35-60c 6s too. Want at least 50c to start and my hobby shop has a 75c 6s for 199$. Crazy expensive. I just got some Zippy 60c 2s for my 10 year old. I have 3 sets of 3s batteries with xt90 connectors for the Nero. 40c, 50c & some really nice SRC 70c 6400mah. Think I'm going to stick with them for the Nero and Kraton. If I do get a 4th set / one back up for each - will go with 2 3s for sure - will probably get another 70c set for 140$ and be done.

i`m cheap...lol.....i get those floureon 3s4500 mah lipos at 30c for like 21 bucks a pop . good enough for me . with the sheer cost of these trucks alone i got to try to save bucks somewhere . the wife is already in shock of what these trucks cost .
way more then when i was into quadcopters and heli`s . when i was into the quadcopters i had a nice collection of "sky lipo" lipo`s . and a few turnigy .
now the norm for these trucks is "smc " or spc

 

[Julian]

Yeah totally get it. Costly and it adds up. I'm buying my fourth 1/8 scale. One of my MTs - the redcat TRMT8E - I gutted and threw in a max 8 combo. Didn't realize the diffs and gears were built for 4S as its a 4S truck. So I burned up the center diff. Ended up spending about 500$ minimum extra. After getting the Nero - I am sticking with ARRMA. my Kraton V2 arrives Tuesday. Tower Hobbies is great - used their ez pay plan and they took off $60 off $499. So I have two more payments of $146. Not bad!!

 

[Vanning]

i have never owned a 6s LiPo . cost is definitely a factor . personally i would rather run 2 3s lipos for a couple reasons .
1- cost- 3s lipos come cheaper
2- cost again , should a 6s LiPo fail or get a bad cell its gonna cost alot more to replace then a 3s LiPo
3- flexibility- i have other trucks that can run 2s and 3s

That's a great way to look at it. Here is how I look at it......Running 6S is fairly extreme, it accelerates the rather large Kraton at tremendous speed. The abuse on the electrical system is harsh. What's bad for a ESC is something called "ripple voltage". The lower that voltage, the better it is for the electrical system in your RC's ESC, battery, moto, etc. What causes high ripple voltage is lots of wire, low C rating on the Lipo, a Lipo that's getting old and high internal resistance, poor soldering and poor connectors. The OP wants to know if one 6S is better than 2 3S. Cost wise it may or may not be during your first 100 runs with a less than stellar electrical system but you may not make it to 200 runs because you are degrading the electrical components due to having too much wire etc, etc, etc. The person that designed a better electrical system will make it to 1000 runs. These are just example numbers.

As of now, with my Kraton setup with just the one 6S pack, my ripple voltage reading taken from my data logger comes out to 7.4%, you do not want to be at 10% or more. I bet if I ran my 2 3S packs that were 35C with all that wire.....I would be at or over 10%. Sure it will still run fine but the electronics are degrading way faster. The last thing you want is a Kraton that's on fire. Good thing the V2 has better electronics than V1. Get the best equipment you can afford and it will last longer. Buy once rather than twice.

Easier said than done with RC...

 

[solidbase]

Good post there Vanning, a lot of variables to think about.

 

[Julian]

That's a great way to look at it. Here is how I look at it......Running 6S is fairly extreme, it accelerates the rather large Kraton at tremendous speed. The abuse on the electrical system is harsh. What's bad for a ESC is something called "ripple voltage". The lower that voltage, the better it is for the electrical system in your RC's ESC, battery, moto, etc. What causes high ripple voltage is lots of wire, low C rating on the LiPo, a LiPo that's getting old and high internal resistance, poor soldering and poor connectors. The OP wants to know if one 6S is better than 2 3S. Cost wise it may or may not be during your first 100 runs with a less than stellar electrical system but you may not make it to 200 runs because you are degrading the electrical components due to having too much wire etc, etc, etc. The person that designed a better electrical system will make it to 1000 runs. These are just example numbers.

As of now, with my Kraton setup with just the one 6S pack, my ripple voltage reading taken from my data logger comes out to 7.4%, you do not want to be at 10% or more. I bet if I ran my 2 3S packs that were 35C with all that wire.....I would be at or over 10%. Sure it will still run fine but the electronics are degrading way faster. The last thing you want is a Kraton that's on fire. Good thing the V2 has better electronics than V1. Get the best equipment you can afford and it will last longer. Buy once rather than twice.

Easier said than done with RC...

Extremely helpful and very informative. I made sure to order the V2. I read a bunch of examples of the V1 literally melting the rear block. 180A esc overheating and melting the rear. Fires, etc. So when I read that - I figured to wait for the Nero and I did. Recently -I noticed that the new Kraton is almost 5lbs less than the Nero. So that was that - I ordered.