Talion Talion EXB Ultra Track Basher

[21STalion]

I use backflips lps (used, now they are broken) on my talion, I love those tires. They are about the same size as stock (+0.05in if I am correct) and they improve the handling by a huge amount.

The Pro-Line badlands mx38 (non belted) are near identical to the backflips lp (3s size) and are probably around the correct size for the car. The racing wheels I'm going for are only a few mm smaller.

Really enjoying the super large tires on the bash days though, it's really amazing for go anywhere ability but it really needs a different pinion. I have been dropping down to 3s on the 175mm wheels and 6s on the 145mm....and the 6s still feels overpowered.

 

[21STalion]

Body time!

My son chose the colour, Tinny Tin, I swear he would paint everything tinny tiny lol

Sketching out the colour scheme:

Mask it up, so many times...

Start with a "tack coat", a super light dusting to promote adhesion. This is after you washed the body and scuffed up the surface prior to painting. It's all about adhesion promotion.

Sometimes it looks painted, but it's not. Check in the light to see:

This looks better now:

Then remove all the masking before it completely dries so you get a clean line with no tearing. Mask up the windows. And spray all the backing in black for the two-tone look.

 

[#ARRMArcfanboy4life]

It looks really good. I might paint my talion body-shell that color (I need a new body for the talion). I would recommend putting drywall tape and shoo goo on the inside of the body, it makes the body last a lot longer.

 

[Dan B.]

Wow. Just…wow. And I thought I “upgraded” my cars a lot. I went through the Upgraded Aluminum Everything phase when I was still building Traxxas stuff but have learned to keep plastic in some areas as almost sacrificial parts. Otherwise you start bending that expensive aluminum stuff.
There‘s no way I would ever go to the lengths you did trying to make the rear shock tower and a couple of those braces work, especially when you’re already rocking the EXB stuff. It’s tough to see any benefit for me.
I disagree strongly with your choice to use aluminum wheel hexes on aluminum axle hexes. This not only adds spinning mass, it also tends to significantly increase failures around the c-hubs, pillow balls, carriers, etc. because it is now transmitting much higher levels of shock to these components. Plus, they can tend to round each other out and even lock if the lug nuts start to loosen. I’d much rather save the weight and occasionally replace the plastic wheel hexes. I was trying to find two threads I read on this subject to link to that describes this issue far better than I am and why not to ever do this, and the problems listed by one user after he did it but I can’t even remember what forum it was on. If I find them I’ll provide a link.
Congrats on what is probably the most comprehensive and detailed build thread I’ve ever seen. Fantastic job, man.

 

[#ARRMArcfanboy4life]

Wow. Just…wow. And I thought I “upgraded” my cars a lot. I went through the Upgraded Aluminum Everything phase when I was still building Traxxas stuff but have learned to keep plastic in some areas as almost sacrificial parts. Otherwise you start bending that expensive aluminum stuff.
There‘s no way I would ever go to the lengths you did trying to make the rear shock tower and a couple of those braces work, especially when you’re already rocking the EXB stuff. It’s tough to see any benefit for me.
I disagree strongly with your choice to use aluminum wheel hexes on aluminum axle hexes. This not only adds spinning mass, it also tends to significantly increase failures around the c-hubs, pillow balls, carriers, etc. because it is now transmitting much higher levels of shock to these components. Plus, they can tend to round each other out and even lock if the lug nuts start to loosen. I’d much rather save the weight and occasionally replace the plastic wheel hexes. I was trying to find two threads I read on this subject to link to that describes this issue far better than I am and why not to ever do this, and the problems listed by one user after he did it but I can’t even remember what forum it was on. If I find them I’ll provide a link.
Congrats on what is probably the most comprehensive and detailed build thread I’ve ever seen. Fantastic job, man.

I agree with your about almost everything you said^

The wheel hubs being aluminum will also probably be more likely to crack the plastic they are mounted to which is more expensive than the $2.49 for a spare plastic hub.

 

[21STalion]

Wow. Just…wow. And I thought I “upgraded” my cars a lot. I went through the Upgraded Aluminum Everything phase when I was still building Traxxas stuff but have learned to keep plastic in some areas as almost sacrificial parts. Otherwise you start bending that expensive aluminum stuff.
There‘s no way I would ever go to the lengths you did trying to make the rear shock tower and a couple of those braces work, especially when you’re already rocking the EXB stuff. It’s tough to see any benefit for me.
I disagree strongly with your choice to use aluminum wheel hexes on aluminum axle hexes. This not only adds spinning mass, it also tends to significantly increase failures around the c-hubs, pillow balls, carriers, etc. because it is now transmitting much higher levels of shock to these components. Plus, they can tend to round each other out and even lock if the lug nuts start to loosen. I’d much rather save the weight and occasionally replace the plastic wheel hexes. I was trying to find two threads I read on this subject to link to that describes this issue far better than I am and why not to ever do this, and the problems listed by one user after he did it but I can’t even remember what forum it was on. If I find them I’ll provide a link.
Congrats on what is probably the most comprehensive and detailed build thread I’ve ever seen. Fantastic job, man.

I agree with your about almost everything you said^

The wheel hubs being aluminum will also probably be more likely to crack the plastic they are mounted to which is more expensive than the $2.49 for a spare plastic hub.

Well I guess we will find out shortly won't we?

I keep checking the tracking every day for the castle 1717...

I was considering using the plastic 1/2" offset hubs on the rear because they fit perfect. For the zero offset unfortunately there are no other options but the aluminum wheel hubs on the front so I got the set. Oh well, at least they look amazing.

We are at 14lbs total weight with all the upgrades (no battery) which includes these wheels which weigh about 4lbs alone!

 

[21STalion]

Pro-Line Badlands MX38 HP Belted 3.8" w/Raid Wheels

After the 1/2" offset rear and 0 offset front aluminum hubs install, stainless screws, and the balancing.

These things needed A LOT of lead to get them balanced - maybe 7gr to 10gr per wheel assembly.

Total Combined Weight: 1770gr (or 3lbs 14.5oz)

 

[Dan B.]

Pro-Line Badlands MX38 HP Belted 3.8" w/Raid Wheels

After the 1/2" offset rear and 0 offset front aluminum hubs install, stainless screws, and the balancing.

These things needed A LOT of lead to get them balanced - maybe 7gr to 10gr per wheel assembly.

Total Combined Weight: 1770gr (or 3lbs 14.5oz)

View attachment 186052View attachment 186053View attachment 186054

Wow, that’s way more weight than I would have thought!

 

[JCsRC]

Agreed, probably the most comprehensive build thread Ive seen to date. I see those ProModeler articles I sent you must have inspired you to try the seperate 2s batteries to replace the BEC? I went with the BEC bypass harness on my LMT and it works very well and of course you save the weight from not needing an extra battery. The Pro Modeler DS635BLHV servo whips around my Losi LMT monster truck tires with authority and astonishing speed. It makes every servo I have ever tried comparatively very slow and weak. There is no comparison really. Its that good!

 

[21STalion]

Agreed, probably the most comprehensive build thread Ive seen to date. I see those ProModeler articles I sent you must have inspired you to try the seperate 2s batteries to replace the BEC? I went with the BEC bypass harness on my LMT and it works very well and of course you save the weight from not needing an extra battery. The Pro Modeler DS635BLHV servo whips around my Losi LMT monster truck tires with authority and astonishing speed. It makes every servo I have ever tried comparatively very slow and weak. There is no comparison really. Its that good!

Yes, thank you for the articles. I did appreciate them. I probably wouldn't have bothered building a second circuit/BEC because it's normally 7.4v anyway with the EXB ESC, but then I ran into an abundance of 2s batteries with my kids RC cars are all running these 2s 1100mah lipos so I had so many kicking around I decided to work it out.

Not going to lie the biggest headache has been working out how to mount them. There isn't a lot of space and it needs to be bash worthy. I could go to another BEC circuit but the fans I have are 12V 1A 40mm (x3), plus the servo and receiver I figure I rather have that extra 30-40 watts going to the motor for power or run time, and not the accessories. Especially since I'm planning on dropping to 4S so I need the extra watts.

I've ordered some aluminum frames to mount the batteries to - maybe I can find a 3d printed alternative to reduce the weight....

After some testing I found that those two packs last well over 3 hours running one of these powerful fans. Probably over 4 hours but I had to get some sleep at some point! I might test it again with more fans running.

 

[21STalion]

Okay body is complete!

This was airbrushed and then varnished. A few decals.

It's a very simple paint job but I find these cars really nice with clean paint. One colour is a bit too simple, but I didn't want it to look busy either.


Finished photos first as usual:

Weight Comparision:
Unpainted Talion body: 113gr
Painted, varnished, decaled Talion body: 123gr
Full bashermod reinforcement Talion body: 246gr

 

[#ARRMArcfanboy4life]

when is the reefs rc 2000kg servo going to be installed?

 

[21STalion]

AON22MA01 HR Aluminum Rear Hubs

I swear the mailman is just drip feeding me one part at a time. Today I got the rear hubs in and the power switch for the Battery Inclusion Circuit (I coin it the BIC ) which is now done, aside from the battery mount (still in transit).

Weight Comparison:
EXB rear hubs: 19gr
HR rear hubs/carbon ears: 34.5gr


Total Weight increase: 31gr (does not include BIC)

And now the Power Switch for the BIC
Note that it includes an LED and a outlet for an additional accessory with a closable flap.
When you switch it on it turns on the fans, receiver, and servo:

Thinking I'll do some lighting with this extra connector for the "nice" body. Then have a spare body for actual bashing or racing. Really happy I found this switch, it seems perfect for the application. Fitment is decent as well:

when is the reefs rc 2000kg servo going to be installed?

Don't tempt me

But honestly this 450oz/0.07 feels like plenty of servo for the steering system. It easily twists the EXB upgraded servo saver (stainless spring). I don't even bother setting the end points because I rather just pin it. It doesn't make a peep, it doesn't care. So I don't think more toque would help, I already got the saver full twist waiting for the wheels to turn....more SPEED on the other hand might be cool. Someone linked something crazy like a 0.04 the other day....

When it pops I'll order something more interesting

 

[21STalion]

Hey guys, think I might sell my EXB take off parts left over from my build.
What do you think it's all worth? I have all this plus the stock 2050kv motor/firma 150 system once the castle 1717 lands that I'll sell separately.
It's all in perfectly serviceable condition, might be some scraps or light bends from use but it's almost all good.

What should I ask? $200?

Probably just keep it as spares.

 

[Dan B.]

Hey guys, think I might sell my EXB take off parts left over from my build.
What do you think it's all worth? I have all this plus the stock 2050kv motor/firma 150 system once the castle 1717 lands that I'll sell separately.
It's all in perfectly serviceable condition, might be some scraps or light bends from use but it's almost all good.

What should I ask? $200?

Arms are RPM, that front block thing is m2c A block

View attachment 186474

Well, if someone had a carbon copy Talion like your build with all those upgrades and bought these EXB parts for $200, think of the weight they’d shave off the truck! Fair price for sure, lighter usually costs much more!
Then they could sell all those upgrades and buy three more trucks…. I’m gonna say win-win.

 

[21STalion]

Well, if someone had a carbon copy Talion like your build with all those upgrades and bought these EXB parts for $200, think of the weight they’d shave off the truck! Fair price for sure, lighter usually costs much more!
Then they could sell all those upgrades and buy three more trucks…. I’m gonna say win-win.

Knowledge is power. The weight savings is in the information.

I can use 8 of of the 10 parts shown in this thread and realize a huge weight savings on race days. The biggest difference was wheels by a huge margin. The wheels define the car.

On a race day I'll probably do the following.

• proline holeshots & 4.0" wheels (so no alum hexes or 1lbs wheels automatically)
• no t2t brace
• use EXB rear brace
• the +5mm rear hex is probably not legal
• no aluminum bearing carrier rear - front maybe
• 4S battery saves a huge amount
• no additional batteries
• no body reinforcement
• No diff carry handle
• plastic diff covers
• remove the RPM mud guards
• would find a way to get an RPM arm on or two, probably stock EXB upper front arm
• Reset the ride height and diff oils

The chassis will be like 1.5lbs lighter and will look nearly the same - only thing anyone will notice is the wheels. Still waiting on the tires and foams to confirm the race wheel weights.

The only real weight increase is the 4mm chassis and the dogbones/cvds. I wish I went Ti for the metal. The servo is heavy too. I would use a new body for a race with no durability mods. Any serious racing I would be using a specific motor just for racing and probably a super light servo with tons of power. Probably a bearing set for just that race as well.

I'm starting to think I'll be adding a BEC 8.4v circuit too (for servo) so I can run a 3S aux pack for my 3x 12V 1amp fans on basher days - the days with the 4 lbs tires . I noticed a small issue already where even with the dual 2s batteries the 12v fans are slowing down at full lock...voltage sag I guess...

As the good weather returns I'll probably tune a little lighter on wheels but you need the big stuff for the slop.

 

[Dan B.]

Well, you’re a dedicated individual. That’s a lot of work for race day! Above all, have fun.
BEC is the best idea, even for bashing. I’ve never been a fan of introducing a new battery just to power components. The heavier the truck the worse the crash damage. You shouldn’t have any brownouts or glitches running a BEC anyway.

 

[21STalion]

Well, you’re a dedicated individual. That’s a lot of work for race day! Above all, have fun.
BEC is the best idea, even for bashing. I’ve never been a fan of introducing a new battery just to power components. The heavier the truck the worse the crash damage. You shouldn’t have any brownouts or glitches running a BEC anyway.

I seem to rebuild the car every week so it doesn't seem like a lot of work to me. I find this tremendously simple to work on and I do it for fun.

What doesn't sit well with me is the power requirements of all the components. Hear me out.

Servo is what?
8.4v x 5.4 amps = 45 watts

Then we have a fan
12v x 1 amp = 12 watts (x3 fans) = 36 watts

Then we have the receiver/gyro etc...and I don't have the power requirements on hand.

Somehow draining nearly 100 watts of power off the main batteries doesn't sit well with me - that BEC must be getting toasty...

That's why I'm thinking of splitting it to BEC and battery both. It's no wonder people burn out their ESCs with integrated BEC being overloaded like this. Although most people won't be using a 45 watt servo, granted.

Imagine the heat off a 100watt lightbulb

 

[Dan B.]

I seem to rebuild the car every week so it doesn't seem like a lot of work to me. I find this tremendously simple to work on and I do it for fun.

What doesn't sit well with me is the power requirements of all the components. Hear me out.

Servo is what?
8.4v x 5.4 amps = 45 watts

Then we have a fan
12v x 1 amp = 12 watts (x3 fans) = 36 watts

Then we have the receiver/gyro etc...and I don't have the power requirements on hand.

Somehow draining nearly 100 watts of power off the main batteries doesn't sit well with me - that BEC must be getting toasty...

That's why I'm thinking of splitting it to BEC and battery both. It's no wonder people burn out their ESCs with integrated BEC being overloaded like this. Although most people won't be using a 45 watt servo, granted.

Imagine the heat off a 100watt lightbulb

I wasn’t suggesting using internal BEC off ESC for all components. Run your fans off that and your servo off an external BEC if you want the 8.4 volts. You’ll be fine. You’ll also save weight and complexity.

 

[21STalion]

I wasn’t suggesting using internal BEC off ESC for all components. Run your fans off that and your servo off an external BEC if you want the 8.4 volts. You’ll be fine. You’ll also save weight and complexity.

Yeah I might do this after some further testing. Moving to a 3s pack and a external 8.4 Bec. I might even sap the power off the main pack.....to skip the external pack.

Talking with the electrician about having batteries wired in series for the ESC but then another lead in parallel for the fans off the same batteries. Might need a diode or something.

Will keep you posted, and thanks for the ideas

Well, you’re a dedicated individual. That’s a lot of work for race day! Above all, have fun.
BEC is the best idea, even for bashing. I’ve never been a fan of introducing a new battery just to power components. The heavier the truck the worse the crash damage. You shouldn’t have any brownouts or glitches running a BEC anyway.

This isn't for 'race day' it's for 'race season' because now it's winter and there is no racing. So i need the large tire off road basher setup until spring. It's just set up and tuning until then. That's the point of this car, to be a performance Swiss Army knife.



Finding the suspension adjustments a little lack luster on the arrma after a lot of testing

As someone who is primarily getting the Talion for racing (otherwise i'd jump on the Kraton roller discount on HH right now), honestly, this thread is invaluable to me.

I wish they did a Talion roller.

They did a talion roller last year i heard. I wasn't into arrma then.

How's it coming along?