Talion Talion EXB Ultra Track Basher

[21STalion]

Lot of armchair engineers think they know everything on these forums, but they are working with theory. Once you actually put the parts together sometimes you get a different story.

Here is one.

The Castle 1717-1650 and MM8X combo is actually lighter than the EXB RTR setup (2050kv/150a esc)

The stock EXB RTR system comes with the heatsink (that I removed to save weight)


A lot of people were saying that adding this system would be adding a ton of weight. In my case it added 5gr. If you left your heaksink on the stock system then the castle system might save you a few ounces...






Can anyone tell me why?



I will tell you if you guess correctly.

 

[Jeremy15086]

Not sure why everyone recommends the Max6 combo over the Castle MMX8s combo. Sure, it's cheaper but there is a reason for that. They are both good but Castle is definitly better quality.
Awesome build. What part of the original car is left and wouldn't it have been cheaper just to buy all of the after market parts and then just get whatever stock parts that were needed?

 

[21STalion]

Not sure why everyone recommends the Max6 combo over the Castle MMX8s combo. Sure, it's cheaper but there is a reason for that. They are both good but Castle is definitly better quality.
Awesome build. What part of the original car is left and wouldn't it have been cheaper just to buy all of the after market parts and then just get whatever stock parts that were needed?

Assuming you weren't being rhetorical, there isn't much left of the original car but still more than you think.

It most definitely would have been cheaper to build from scratch but I had to research and upgrade one at a time to know how in the first place...this thead didn't exist yet.

All I can say is I like having spare parts and if it's not worth buying two of then it's not worth buying one of.

 

[Dan B.]

Also, finally down under 10lbs again.
Weight: 4508gr about 9lbs 14oz DIRTY lol


View attachment 196183

Glad your Talion is under 10# again, lol. It seems like the track is where you’re most comfortable, and you seem to be taking the best approaches and a productive learning curve to achieve the best results. I think you can kill it in this environment as you near the end of your testing and setup curves. Nice job!
That said, and after calling me out rather aggressively to immediately furnish the weight of my Mojave (?!?) you have still not furnished the weight of your Talion in what you call “basher form” with all the braces, heat sinks, anchor wheels, etc., etc. Why not? You said trash-talking was part of the fun (and I agree with that in spades) but after you told me to “put my money where my mouth is” which I did you have still not provided your final bashing weight despite the request from three forum members. I’m guessing it’s because you might be embarrassed that your short wheelbase 6s Arrma is pushing 20 pounds in that state. Am I wrong? Inquiring minds want to know…. And be honest when/if you decide to do it. Bolt all that “upgrade“ stuff up you’ve since removed along with those 5 pound wheels and let’s all see where it lands.
Trash talk at its finest, lol.
Let’s see how your lightest (in stock form) 6s Arrma compares to my heaviest (in stock form) 6s Arrma. Still not quite sure why you wanted to make this comparison, but since you demanded it and I already stepped up to the plate, then you should too.

 

[Jeremy15086]

Assuming you weren't being rhetorical, there isn't much left of the original car but still more than you think.

It most definitely would have been cheaper to build from scratch but I had to research and upgrade one at a time to know how in the first place...this thead didn't exist yet.

All I can say is I like having spare parts and if it's not worth buying two of then it's not worth buying one of.

Yea, I get it. I was just joking. I am doing a Kraton XL "Monster Mojave" build. By the end I'll probably have close to a Kraton EXB in stock parts. But, I didn't have enough cash to do a scratch build and I traded my Felony for the Kraton. Plus, I have something to drive during the build. In the end maybe I'll build a the K6 with all of the extras and sell it or just have a back up car.

 

[21STalion]

Glad your Talion is under 10# again, lol. It seems like the track is where you’re most comfortable, and you seem to be taking the best approaches and a productive learning curve to achieve the best results. I think you can kill it in this environment as you near the end of your testing and setup curves. Nice job!
That said, and after calling me out rather aggressively to immediately furnish the weight of my Mojave (?!?) you have still not furnished the weight of your Talion in what you call “basher form” with all the braces, heat sinks, anchor wheels, etc., etc. Why not? You said trash-talking was part of the fun (and I agree with that in spades) but after you told me to “put my money where my mouth is” which I did you have still not provided your final bashing weight despite the request from three forum members. I’m guessing it’s because you might be embarrassed that your short wheelbase 6s Arrma is pushing 20 pounds in that state. Am I wrong? Inquiring minds want to know…. And be honest when/if you decide to do it. Bolt all that “upgrade“ stuff up you’ve since removed along with those 5 pound wheels and let’s all see where it lands.
Trash talk at its finest, lol.
Let’s see how your lightest (in stock form) 6s Arrma compares to my heaviest (in stock form) 6s Arrma. Still not quite sure why you wanted to make this comparison, but since you demanded it and I already stepped up to the plate, then you should too.

Well frankly it's just not done yet.

I only discovered this new racetrack a week ago and it's way more fun to drive with others than by yourself. So that's why it is where it is right now, why keep building for solo bashing if my group is currently racing.

My main track closed when the weather went wet and I went back to bashing. That's over now...

The fans never went in because the motor never got hot. I have the BEC and extra battery packs, but the motor never got hot under my current condition so there was no need to cool further.

I was up to 4 am installing the castle system and configuring the radio. If the castle starts getting hot the the fans will go in.

Tower to tower brace will be staying off for now, there doesn't seem to be much use for it other than a carry handle. I like the car better without it.

Wheelie bar is totally just for fun and will only go on when I feel like showing off.

Carry handle is not needed.

And that's really it. Only difference now is the wheels.

My heaviest wheels are 1770gr belted Badlands 175mm diameter. I really wanted those wheels to be able to drive upside down

I'll do a wheel and tire weight comparison later today.

Well frankly it's just not done yet.

I only discovered this new racetrack a week ago and it's way more fun to drive with others than by yourself. So that's why it is where it is right now, why keep building for solo bashing if my group is currently racing.

My main track closed when the weather went wet and I went back to bashing. That's over now...

The fans never went in because the motor never got hot. I have the BEC and extra battery packs, but the motor never got hot under my current condition so there was no need to cool further.

I was up to 4 am installing the castle system and configuring the radio. If the castle starts getting hot the the fans will go in.

Tower to tower brace will be staying off for now, there doesn't seem to be much use for it other than a carry handle. I like the car better without it.

Wheelie bar is totally just for fun and will only go on when I feel like showing off.

Carry handle is not needed.

And that's really it. Only difference now is the wheels.

My heaviest wheels are 1770gr belted Badlands 175mm diameter. I really wanted those wheels to be able to drive upside down

I'll do a wheel and tire weight comparison later today.

Oh, and I never found a great way to mount the extra batteries which is why those didn't go on. The aluminum mounts I bought for the 2s batteries ended up being too narrow then found the Castle ESC can do 8v anyway.

Then after seeing the car not even get warm without heatsinks or fans I removed them entity.

 

[Dan B.]

Well frankly it's just not done yet.

Yeah, you keep saying that. But in fact, your “basher setup” was the first iteration that was completed, right? You just never weighed it with all of those extra lumps installed.
We’ll wait patiently.

 

[21STalion]

Yeah, you keep saying that. But in fact, your “basher setup” was the first iteration that was completed, right? You just never weighed it with all of those extra lumps installed.
We’ll wait patiently.

You aren't getting it. There is no difference between the basher setup and this one other than the wheels.

I did not lighten this one for racing, it's not ROAR legal.

The ROAR legal racing setup is even lighter.

 

[Dan B.]

You aren't getting it. There is no difference between the basher setup and this one other than the wheels.

I did not lighten this one for racing, it's not ROAR legal.

The ROAR legal racing setup is even lighter.

Lol, ok! You funny. Put all that crap back on and weight it, for the love of god!

 

[21STalion]

@Dan B.

This is the "basher" setup AKA not ROAR legal

The track I'm at right now is unofficial and don't follow ROAR rules, we're just practicing on the off season. In April/May if I join the official events you will see the ultra-light ROAR legal race version. This is still the "Winter Car".

Below is the Basher setup with the Castle 1717, they way I will run it this week:

Weight without wheels: 4035gr (8lbs 14oz)

Then add any wheel/tires combo you want. I run each and every one of them depending on how I feel and where I'm driving.



Smallest to biggest below:



Proline Crimefighters
Weight 466gr

Pro-line Holeshot tires and wheels 4.0" Truggy
Weight 705gr

EXB Belted Katars
Weight 1021gr

ProLine Badlands non belted
Weight 1075gr

Backflips 6s (non belted, but tough rubber)
Weight 1502 gr

Belted Badlands w/aluminum hubs - 0 offset front and 1/2 offset rear
Weight 1770gr

So my final weight is somewhere between: 4501gr (9 pounds and 14.768 ounces) to 5,806gr (12 pounds and 12.801 ounces) depending on the wheels you choose



Does this answer your question Dan B.?



To get to the real racing weight there are quite a few parts to be swapped out - that will be the next project. Exact parts you can figure it out if you read every post carefully.

For starters, the Talion style rear hub carrier and axels need to be put back on (Kraton style currently) and the 5mm extended hubs removed or this isn't even ROAR legal, there is also a lighter motor (castle) that I'm testing, but I might buy another ESC/Motor combo entirely that's designed specifically for ROAR legal truggy racing.

But lately I've been thinking of scrapping the ultra competitive Talion racer and keeping it a basher racer like it is now (and I REALLY enjoy) and then buy a dedicated racecar for actual ROAR legal events. Xray, Kyosho, maybe a Black Edition, something like that.

Meantime, this is fantastic for the Non-ROAR legal track we have access to now.

 

[Dan B.]

(12 pounds and 12.801 ounces)
Does this answer your question Dan B.?

Yes!!! But I mean, where’s the T2T brace? Anything else? Anyway, you’ve ‘fessed up to a 12 pound, 12oz. Talion, minus some bracing and a couple other bits? So thanks, that’s awesome!

 

[21STalion]

Yes!!! But I mean, where’s the T2T brace? Anything else? Anyway, you’ve ‘fessed up to a 12 pound, 12oz. Talion, minus some bracing and a couple other bits? So thanks, that’s awesome!

You forgot to upvote the post with all the weights Dan


Here are all the "missing bits", they aren't actually missing, because I don't plan on putting them back on Dan.

The car just doesn't need them

Any more questions Dan?

It doesn't seem to be anywhere near the 20lbs you think it weighs

 

[21STalion]

Yes!!! But I mean, where’s the T2T brace? Anything else? Anyway, you’ve ‘fessed up to a 12 pound, 12oz. Talion, minus some bracing and a couple other bits? So thanks, that’s awesome!

It's under 10 lbs with the same size wheels you run.

 

[21STalion]

@SrC

You mentioned you were once in a/b so I wanted to share this with you.

BODY UPDATE:

This is after about 30 packs at the track. Jumping, flipping, tumbling etc... real hardcore abuse

You can see where the varnish (clear coat) failed, it was not very flexible and bonded so well to the black backer color when it chipped it took the black with it. But the base color metallic remains unmolested with still perfect adhesion - using nothing but best practices (no chemical adhesion promotor).

I have a couple more bodies on order. I will try different techniques with each.

 

[SrC]

What paint did you use as the base color metallic?
Enamals and lacquers don't really work well together.

 

[21STalion]

What paint did you use as the base color metallic?
Enamals and lacquers don't really work well together.

No, none of that. We're not using urethan enamels or any real "car paint" here.

This is Vallejo paints for models. My other hobby is Warhammer 40k. I quit the auto industry over a decade ago because of the unavoidable toxic chemical exposure and poor economy for luxury items at the time. Now I work from home and I paint Warhammer models with water based acrylics instead to sort of scratch the same itch.

https://acrylicosvallejo.com/en/

I'm convinced the only difference between this and the Tamiya paint is just a single additive I could easily mix in but I haven't bought their stuff or researched their stuff yet. It could be totally different binder.

 

[21STalion]

@SrC

It's like my franks red hot sauce but for acrylic metallic paint, I use this SHHHH on everything (that will be metallic) Also my son's favorite so it really is on everything.

It's not airbrush paint per se I just mix it down and shoot it. Game Color paints are meant to be handled.

 

[Dan B.]

It's under 10 lbs with the same size wheels you run.

You mean those puny little stock Mojo wheels? Like you’d be caught dead running those? What about those aluminum 5-pounders? Come on man, you can hit 20#’s, I have faith!

 

[21STalion]

You mean those puny little stock Mojo wheels? Like you’d be caught dead running those? What about those aluminum 5-pounders? Come on man, you can hit 20#’s, I have faith!

Maybe it's because it's just around freezing outside, but I can't get these motors more than just a bit warm even without fans. You know I blew up those little wheels.... whoops they are NOT rated for 100kph I guess. This pic was from yesterday minutes before the 1717 went in.

I think I'll get another few days of out them after a good glue sesh

 

[Dan B.]

Yeah, here too man. It’s a balmy 8° Fahrenheit at the moment. I haven’t been able to get out any trucks for almost three weeks. We’ve had lows below zero and highs in the teens and twenties and it’s so easy to break stuff in that kind of cold. Maybe next week!
Highest speed I’ve had on the stock wheels and tires are 57mph. That ended poorly, but the tires held up! When it’s warm enough I’m going for a flat out speed run. Expecting low to mid 60’s—the speed, not the temperature!