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Talion Steering Issue (steering not straight after crash repair)

Discussion in 'Talion' started by leo248, May 9, 2018.

  1. leo248

    leo248 Well-Known Member

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    I have a problem with the steering on my V3 Talion.

    After crashing the right side into a tree. I had to replace several parts including the suspension holders and the diff case as well as upgrading to RPM A arms.

    I found that the top plate that goes over the steering bellcranb was bent so I straightened it out as well as the steering link between the bellcrank posts which was also bent.
    IMG_20180509_182609.jpg IMG_20180509_182621.jpg IMG_20180509_182639.jpg IMG_20180509_182657.jpg



    Upon putting everything back together the steering is off to the right. The turnbuckles are not bent and the servo saver posts look fine too. The trim hadn't been changed either and to make the steering straight it requires 80% trim to the left.

    Can anyone help me fix this?
     
  2. 2fast4u

    2fast4u Well-Known Member

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    I will take a stab at it. Arms on right side bellcrank twisted open or closed ? Servo horn partially stripped ?Servo gears stripped or skipped a tooth ? Turnbuckles still adjusted equally ? All I got.
     
  3. RCROD

    RCROD Well-Known Member

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    I would start over with re-centering your servo horn/steering, radio trim, etc.

    1. unhook the short composite steering arm from your Servo Horn (the small arm that goes from Servo Horn to your Bellcrank). With the steering unhooked from your servo, by hand, check & make sure your steering turns freely. It should turn smoothly, unless you have anymore bent parts or pivot balls are too tight? If all ok, move to next step.

    2. with servo horn still unhooked, check to make sure your front steering turnbuckles are the same length on each side and that you have just a bit of toe out. You may need to adjust turnbuckles a couple of times to get even on each side & also have the correct toe out. Measure with a caliper if not sure turnbuckles lengths are the same, or eyeball them) Once happy, move to next step.

    3. turn on your radio and adjust radio TRIM back to zero. Turn on receiver and your servo will self center.

    4. hook the steering back up making sure your servo horn is perfectly straight when servo self centers. (if not, you may need to remove the servo horn from your servo and re-center it). Adjust steering end-points so steering turns same amount each side and no pressure/binding at the end of servo throws.

    5. test drive vehicle and adjust TRIM on your radio so vehicle drives straight. Should only need a small trim adjustment if all above steps followed correctly.

    6. Don't forget to adjust your radio end points "after" the steering has already been centered (everything attached and steering turnbuckles & "FINAL" trim had been adjusted, etc), as this will prevent any damage to steering components.

    Vehicle should now turn evenly both ways.
     
    #3 RCROD, May 12, 2018
    Last edited: May 13, 2018
  4. leo248

    leo248 Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for the advice . I had followed all the steps prior however I have a few problems.

    1. If the turnbuckles are made the same length the wheels will have completely different alignment (one will be mostly neutral while the other while be noticeably toed out for example) not sure if this is correct or not?

    2.Even after following all the steps the car still has more steering angle to the left than right, no amount of end point adjustment fixes this, is it just a flaw in the steering geometry?

    With all the problems I am having regarding steering I am considering upgrading the bellcrank to the hot racing aluminium one for more precision and crash resistance would this help?
     
  5. RCROD

    RCROD Well-Known Member

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    1. This is why you need to "unhook" your servo horn from the steering. Once servo is not attached to the car's steering you can then freely move steering/wheels so they are both pointing the same (slightly outwards with same toe-out on each side). Once this is done, then follow all other steps but set trim to ZERO, before reattaching servo horn. This will ensure the steering is straight and if one side turns more, then your end point adjustment is too much on the side which has less steering.

    2. The reason why you may have not enough end point adjustment is probably due to having so much trim. Again, you must unhook your servo horn and start over with the adjustments and ZERO TRIM.
     
    #5 RCROD, May 12, 2018
    Last edited: May 12, 2018
  6. leo248

    leo248 Well-Known Member

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    Ok. I did these steps. The servo horn is as centred as it can be .The problem is that the steering angle is physically limited. Even with the car swicthed off, it isn't possible to move the wheels as far right as they can move left.

    I tried setting trim to 0 and centred the servo horn but the two notches were either steering slightly pointing right or way too far left .Therefore it isn't possible to centre the steering just by positioning the horn. I am currently having to use 50 left trim to get the car to track reasonably straight.
     
  7. RCROD

    RCROD Well-Known Member

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    At 50 Left Trim it does not sound like your steering is centered. Sometimes the servo horn will not perfectly center on some servos, so try centering it one notch the opposite way you did. Make sure you have the wheels pointing as straight forward as possible before centering the servo. Also make sure your trim is set to zero before centering, reinstalling your servo horn. Once servo horn is centered back on your servo, then adjust your trim, as trim should not be that much.

    With your servo horn unhooked from the steering, does your steering still turn more Left than Right? This will explain a lot of what is happening?
     
  8. leo248

    leo248 Well-Known Member

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    I have tried your suggestions. I will put a video up soon to demonstrate what I have done. Even with the horn off the servo the wheels can still turn more to the left than right.
     
  9. leo248

    leo248 Well-Known Member

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    I have found out why the car steers more to the left than right. I will show photos and videos soon when they have uploaded. When steering right the servo-saver half of the bellcrank is getting stuck on the diff case near where the output shaft is. Is this a design flaw or is something damaged / not assembled correctly?
     
  10. RCROD

    RCROD Well-Known Member

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    Damn, it still turns more left even with the horn unhooked. Your positive, & it's not an illusion LOL. Seriously, sorry to hear you are still having problems.

    Well, we now know it is not the servo gears stripped, horn not being centered, or radio trim settings off, etc. It has to be either something bent from your accident (steering rack, suspension arm, turnbuckle, cvd dogbone, etc), or possibly turnbuckles are adjusted different lengths, or pivot ball(s) maybe too tight to turn full revolution? Did your steering turn freely/smoothly back and forth with the horn off? Are you pivot balls screwed all the way into suspension arms (not loose, especially on bottom). Have you measured the turnbuckles to make sure the same length each side? Could it possibly have a different front steering block on the one side or even a different turnbuckle rod end compared to the other side. Just trying to think outside of the box, since this does not make sense?
     
  11. leo248

    leo248 Well-Known Member

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    I am quite sure that nothing is bent as I had the whole front end of the car including the steering apart last week to replace the parts that got broken, I inspected the steering, chassis, turnbuckles, steering blocks, and bellcrank to check for any bent/broken parts. I did find that the steering rack that connects the two sides of the bellcrank together was bent so I straightened it out with a hammer. If anything else is bent then I can't see it!

    The turnbuckles seemingly have to be at different lengths otherwise if they are equal one wheel will be straight and the other will be drastically pointing another direction, the turnbuckles are currently set so there is a small amount of toe out ( the best as I can do without special tools ). The pivot balls move freely as the steering is very smooth with the servo horn detached.

    During the repair work I upgraded both front suspension arms to RPM so the pivot balls are screwed in properly with the stock spacers for camber.

    Even the rod ends on the turnbuckles are the same orientation in that that the shape is mirrored both sides ( the turnbuckles themselves are the opposite to to this so that the left hand thread indicator is to the left of the car.

    It has me baffled too. I have been running the car but it's been off-road on grass where small problems with tracking or alignment are hard to notice unlike on the road where the car wasn't driving well.
     
  12. RCROD

    RCROD Well-Known Member

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    Sounds like something is bent. Check your steering ackerman? Here is a picture of one, as this part can bend easily in a bad crash.
    https://www.voltagehobbies.com/stor...Kraton,_Talion,_Typhon,_Senton,_Outcast_.html
     
  13. leo248

    leo248 Well-Known Member

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  14. leo248

    leo248 Well-Known Member

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    First video of the issue. Second one coming up showing more detail.
     
  15. RCROD

    RCROD Well-Known Member

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    I think we need some Twilight Zone music here. If you bent your Steering Ackerman back too far (bent too far downwards in the middle), it could rub on the diff case possibly? What is the white stuff (tape?) on your steering turnbuckles in the pictures? I still wonder if something is bent or partially broken and possibly flexing when steering to the full throw?

    Again, PLEASE NOTE, your steering turnbuckles need to be the same length on each side. If not the same length, your steering will turn more on one side than the other, regardless if trying this with horn on or off. As you've said, you have more steering to the left than the right and having one of your turnbuckles being adjusted longer than the other will cause this.

    Sorry to dwell on this, but you "must" adjust the turnbuckles and toe out with the servo horn not attached to the steering. You need to adjust the turnbuckles the same length, slowing adjusting so once you are happy with your toe out & have both turnbuckles the same length, you can then reset your radio to ZERO trim. Once radio reset, then re-attach the servo horn with both wheels pointing forward and as straight as possible. This way both wheels with turn the same amount each way and you will only need a little trim to adjust once test driving. Don't forget to adjust your end points again once final trim, etc all adjusted. Also please note, these steps need to be done in order.
     
  16. RCROD

    RCROD Well-Known Member

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    It is hard to tell in your video, as your right wheel is pointing way too far right even when your left wheel points straight which tells me you probably have too much toe out. I gather your left turnbuckle is adjusted longer than your right? Loosen up your right turnbuckle a bit and this will even out the turnbuckle lengths and also help with less toe out. You may need to adjust both turnbuckles like I said earlier in order to get turnbuckle lengths the same and toe out just right. You only want a bit of toe out on the front. Once done this and reset radio trim to zero, then re-attach your servo horn and adjust small amount of trim and end points accordingly.
     
  17. leo248

    leo248 Well-Known Member

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    The white tape is to remind me which way to turn the turnbuckles to achieve more to in or out. The steering ackerman is not fouling on anything its the arm on the servo saver that is hitting the diff case.
    tj
    The right turnbuckle is longer than the left. I will try making them the same length.
     
    RCROD likes this.
  18. leo248

    leo248 Well-Known Member

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    The white tape is to remind me which way to turn the turnbuckles to achieve more to in or out. The steering ackerman is not fouling on anything its the arm on the servo saver that is hitting the diff case.


    IMG_20180515_233009.jpg IMG_20180515_233032.jpg IMG_20180515_233102.jpg

    As you can see there are marks on the diff case and servo saver arm because they keep fouling when full right lock is used.
     
  19. RCROD

    RCROD Well-Known Member

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    Glad to hear you will adjust turnbuckles the same length. They need to be the same length or you will be chasing this problem forever. Again hard to tell in video, but it looks like too much flex in your steering. Almost looks like something cracked or broken in steering posts, bellcrank, chassis or something else maybe? Is your bellcrank, etc fully tightened down?
     
    #19 RCROD, May 15, 2018 at 8:05 PM
    Last edited: May 15, 2018 at 8:47 PM
  20. leo248

    leo248 Well-Known Member

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    The turnbuckles are now both the same length (71mm) as you can see the left wheel is straight while the right one is steering in. So surely the turnbuckles cannot be the same length?
    IMG_20180516_211742.jpg
     
    #20 leo248, May 16, 2018 at 4:19 PM
    Last edited: May 16, 2018 at 4:28 PM
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