Talion Talion v3 Conversion to Kraton

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This is a great wheel/tire that does not balloon, not good for tall jumps and hard landings in the long run though (my own experience)
https://www.sweepracingusa.com/Mons...re-preglued-on-Black-wheel-2pc-set_p_569.html


Yeah, it's almost ironic that you mention those, I originally wrote a disclaimer that said (excluding SRC wheels & tires) - but then decided to remove it - didn't want to shift subject to other tire vendors... Like you mentioned, I looked in to the SRC both their street version and the terrain crushers - but they aren't really good for bashing - especially on hard pack dirt - and they reportedly don't "hook up" all that well on that many surfaces... I was going to order a set for "ha-ha's" but thought better of it because I felt they were too one dimensional... Never mind them being brutal on suspension parts... I've been running various ProLine tires for 15+yrs I like their quality overall - just this whole move to re-move the majority of MT tires got under my skin... While the desperado rims aren't as bad as some of them - they didn't even have the courtesy of making them an option on all of their pre-mounted tires - they took that Apple approach of "I know what's best for you and you're going to like it"... Yuk...
 
Hey, who started that rumour anyways..ha, ha LOL

I agree, RC tire companies should make stronger "belted" type tires that don't balloon so much. This should not be that hard to do (just reinforce the tires, or use similar kevlar belting inside, that full scale tires do). Stiffer tires are really needed now that we have so much power coming from electric (brushless motors & 6S-8S Lipos). RC tire companies can still offer their lightweight race tires if running 2S-4S, but anything over 6S, needs another option for a tire. Pro-Line did advise me a few months back that they were working on a new tire, but I've seen nothing yet?

2loki4u. Those tires look like they would be good for the 6S running on the street or smooth solid pack dirt, being belted, but not offroad or jumps, as it looks like like no tire sidewall to help take some of the impact on the hard landings.
 
RCROD. I completely agree with you about the SRCs - heard that from a lot of folks who have run them. I also agree that the tire companies need to do something for people running 6s/8s... This whole slash and hack and tape nonsense is ridiculous - I know tons of folks swear by it by - I love my new shockwaves that I put on my ERBE - been thinking of putting them on my Talion to give them a try - all praise to Rich Duperbash for his informative youtube channel - I saw him run them on his daughter's talion and they did really well on jumps - help take up the impact of landings as they are a tad more supple then the badlands - i confirmed that on my ERBE on 4s - just it looked like the talion is a little labored with them so I've been hesitant to run them, especially on 6s - I'm afraid under real throttle they may get damaged - on 4s they are the best tires i've ever used - love how they handle with my ERBE without killing my diffs...

I think the kevlar band idea, integrated in to the tire, like a belt - is the best idea ever...
 
Well the SRC's may not be the perfect bashing tire (when I first saw them I thought they were solid tires) but they do have a soft suspension in the rubber. It is a really well built and glued tire/wheel. The road crushers have been really nice on dirtroads, gravel, grass, rough asphalt and no ballooning. I think it's hard to make a tire that has tall profile, is light and does not balloon. I think you really need a low profile tire.
I have gone through many tires and wheels, I have even bought some cheap Kforce Traxxas knock offs, that lasted a long time. The best tire/wheel that I have owned, is the original Badlands 3.8, they have really gone trough hell, looks like poop by now but they're still whole. I would like to try the Badlands MX38 next :) too bad they don't come mounted on the Desperado's......................
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Well the SRC's may not be the perfect bashing tire (when I first saw them I thought they were solid tires) but they do have a soft suspension in the rubber. It is a really well built and glued tire/wheel. The road crushers have been really nice on dirtroads, gravel, grass, rough asphalt and no ballooning. I think it's hard to make a tire that has tall profile, is light and does not balloon. I think you really need a low profile tire.
I have gone through many tires and wheels, I have even bought some cheap Kforce Traxxas knock offs, that lasted a long time. The best tire/wheel that I have owned, is the original Badlands 3.8, they have really gone trough hell, looks like poop by now but they're still whole. I would like to try the Badlands MX38 next :) too bad they don't come mounted on the Desperado's......................
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View attachment 19567
I agree, a tire with less sidewall should balloon less, but you do still want some sidewall to help take the impact of hard landings (best would be enough sidewall to help take some impact damage, but not too much sidewall, for less ballooning). It should not be that difficult to make a tire that does not balloon too much without adding too much weight. Just use some lightweight kevlar belting or something similar inside the tire?

I also agree, the original 3.8 Badlands have always been my favourite tire also. They last a long time and hook up like crazy & that moto-x tread absolutely rocks. My new favourite tire, is the Backflips (same tread pattern as Badlands, but a bit stiffer & bigger, 6.8x3.0"). My only gripe with these is the weight, but could be the rims are also heavy. Backflips are the perfect size for the Kraton, but a bit big for the Talion (unless you upgrade to Kraton hubs/axles). I would really like to see Pro-line Racing design a new 3.8 Badlands tire for 6S (a bit stiffer for less ballooning, and while they are at it, maybe increase Badlands tire dimensions just a bit more; from 5.85x2.72" to 6.0-6.2" tall x 2.8-3.0" wide). This would then be the perfect tire for the V3 Talion...

The MX38 Badlands would probably be too wide to fit the Desperado wheel. The MX38 Badlands is a huge tire, and I think way too big for the Talion. It measures a massive 6.91" tall & 3.70" wide, compared to the stock Katar tires (5.75"x2.24"). This is a very heavy, and extremely wide tire.
 
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I agree, a tire with less sidewall should balloon less, but you do still want some sidewall to help take the impact of hard landings (best would be enough sidewall to help take some impact damage, but not too much sidewall, for less ballooning). It should not be that difficult to make a tire that does not balloon too much without adding too much weight. Just use some lightweight kevlar belting or something similar inside the tire?

I also agree, the original 3.8 Badlands have always been my favourite tire also. They last a long time and hook up like crazy & that moto-x tread absolutely rocks. My new favourite tire, is the Backflips (same tread pattern as Badlands, but a bit stiffer & bigger, 6.8x3.0"). My only gripe with these is the weight, but could be the rims are also heavy. Backflips are the perfect size for the Kraton, but a bit big for the Talion (unless you upgrade to Kraton hubs/axles). I would really like to see Pro-line Racing design a new 3.8 Badlands tire for 6S (a bit stiffer for less ballooning, and while they are at it, maybe increase Badlands tire dimensions just a bit more; from 5.85x2.72" to 6.0-6.2" tall x 2.8-3.0" wide). This would then be the perfect tire for the V3 Talion...

The MX38 Badlands would probably be too wide to fit the Desperado wheel. The MX38 Badlands is a huge tire, and I think way too big for the Talion. It measures a massive 6.91" tall & 3.70" wide, compared to the stock Katar tires (5.75"x2.24"). This is a very heavy, and extremely wide tire.

A sidewall halfway between the SRC's and the Badlands would be nice, we would need a bigger rim though, SRC's use a larger rim than 3.8.
Just by making it out of thicker rubber would make it heavy. Like you say some kevlar belted tires would probably work.
It could be that making these kevlar belted tires though would be to costly, I mean maybe Pro-Line could make them but they would simply be too expensive ?

I have not yet tried the Backflips, they do look sturdy, but like you say a bit too big for the Talion.

Pics and videos can be deceiving, you are completely right, if you look at the specs for MX38 it is too big for the Talion to be usable. Same thing with the Rock Rage. I think it would fit the Desperado wheel though, the F-11 should be the same width as the Desperado ? I mean they even fit Trenchers on the Desperado wheel. Don't matter though cause it seems like MX38 only come mounted.
btw I did buy some Trenchers a year ago to fit on my ERBE, I knew they were large but I saw a lot of people that used them, they do fit, but now they're sitting mostly on the shelf cause I thought they simply robbed to much power from the drivetrain and the steering radius got really bad.

Like you say I would also like to see a new 3.8 Badlands tire with those dimensions that you mention, that would be about the same outer diameter as the Shockwaves, which fits and work nicely on the Talion, but more narrow.
 
Pro-line Trenchers are massively wide at 4.15". Tires can make the biggest difference on how your RC performs, and adding weight to your wheels/tires (rotating mass) can have the biggest negative effect (way harder on electronics, motor, & drivetrain, let alone the speed, handling, braking, etc)

You're right, it should fit the Desperado or F11 wheel, as Proline fits all their 3.8 tires on these wheels, so should be the same width.

I'm not sure of the SRC wheel size, but I am mounting my 3.8 Badlands on 4.0" wheels (same size as stock Talion wheels), and hope this may help some of the ballooning?

I tried bugging Proline Racing earlier to make a new Badlands tire for 6S (balloon less and maybe a bit bigger, w/o adding too much weight: kevlar bands?). My idea is to get everyone to bombard Proline with emails for this request...

Other suggestion is for some smaller, lighter Dboots Backflips for the V3 Talion, but I'm sure this is wishful thinking, plus, it would be an extremely long wait for these anyways, as this is Arrma...LOL
 
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Pro-line Trenchers are massively wide at 4.15". Tires can make the biggest difference on how your RC performs, and adding weight to your wheels/tires (rotating mass) can have the biggest negative effect (way harder on electronics, motor, & drivetrain, let alone the speed, handling, braking, etc)

You're right, it should fit the Desperado or F11 wheel, as Proline fits all their 3.8 tires on these wheels, so should be the same width.

I'm not sure of the SRC wheel size, but I am mounting my 3.8 Badlands on 4.0" wheels (same size as stock Talion wheels), and hope this may help some of the ballooning?

I tried bugging Proline Racing earlier to make a new Badlands tire for 6S (balloon less and maybe a bit bigger, w/o adding too much weight: kevlar bands?). My idea is to get everyone to bombard Proline with emails for this request...

Other suggestion is for some smaller, lighter Dboots Backflips for the V3 Talion, but I'm sure this is wishful thinking, plus, it would be an extremely long wait for these anyways, as this is Arrma...LOL

To the point I highlighted above in the quote - I think this is a good idea - I wonder if there's an inexpensive petition app we could use to facilitate this - with a partial form letter recommending this - the way they do for CASA (vaping group to send to politicians - i get them every time there's anti vaping legislation being pushed through quietly) - I've been thinking Kevlar Cords in the tire would do the trick - based on all the hack methods i've seen being used by other RC fanatics - using gorilla tape and fishing line - this would be effective, and if laid in during the molding process, mid thickness - as a cord - like 3 to 5 (depending on the width of the tire - 3 for say a badland and 5 for a trencher or shockwave) it would eliminate the issues we see with the rotating mass at high speeds... I have had this issue with 3s trucks running 4400kv motors and the right gearing as well as certain gearing setups on 4s and of course 6s... Be bad-ass if they did the road rage tires too...

Anyone know anything about form letter petitions?

~chris
 
Pro-line Trenchers are massively wide at 4.15". Tires can make the biggest difference on how your RC performs, and adding weight to your wheels/tires (rotating mass) can have the biggest negative effect (way harder on electronics, motor, & drivetrain, let alone the speed, handling, braking, etc)

You're right, it should fit the Desperado or F11 wheel, as Proline fits all their 3.8 tires on these wheels, so should be the same width.

I'm not sure of the SRC wheel size, but I am mounting my 3.8 Badlands on 4.0" wheels (same size as stock Talion wheels), and hope this may help some of the ballooning?

I tried bugging Proline Racing earlier to make a new Badlands tire for 6S (balloon less and maybe a bit bigger, w/o adding too much weight: kevlar bands?). My idea is to get everyone to bombard Proline with emails for this request...

Other suggestion is for some smaller, lighter Dboots Backflips for the V3 Talion, but I'm sure this is wishful thinking, plus, it would be an extremely long wait for these anyways, as this is Arrma...LOL

True on the Trenchers.

The SRC wheel size is about 4.5" so I guess a nice wheelsize for a medium sidewall would be 4" like you're using.

The Backflips do interest me more and more, not cause i want to try them on the Talion but I have decided to buy an Outcast :)
Seen lots of people use the MX38's on their Outcast's usually taped or strapped, but then I found this tire/wheel, the Trencher 3.8 40 series,
the bashers do seem to like this tire, if you look at the specs it is a large tire but not as wide. Lightweight with increased sidewall thickness, wow, just perfect for the Outcast or Kraton ? https://www.prolineracing.com/tires...rain-tires-mounted-on-tech-5-black-wheels.asp now why is this discontinued, maybe after all it's all about politics and sales ?
1160-13.jpg
 
True on the Trenchers.

The SRC wheel size is about 4.5" so I guess a nice wheelsize for a medium sidewall would be 4" like you're using.

The Backflips do interest me more and more, not cause i want to try them on the Talion but I have decided to buy an Outcast :)
Seen lots of people use the MX38's on their Outcast's usually taped or strapped, but then I found this tire/wheel, the Trencher 3.8 40 series,
the bashers do seem to like this tire, if you look at the specs it is a large tire but not as wide. Lightweight with increased sidewall thickness, wow, just perfect for the Outcast or Kraton ? https://www.prolineracing.com/tires...rain-tires-mounted-on-tech-5-black-wheels.asp now why is this discontinued, maybe after all it's all about politics and sales ?View attachment 19645

I figured the big diameter SRC wheel must be close to a 4.5". I agree a 4.0" wheel is a good size, and could maybe go as big as a 4.2" diameter wheel, as long as tires are tall enough. I was thinking of the Outcast myself, but just not sure of that small wheelbase being able to handle 6S power at aall? The Backflips are good (have for my Kraton), only complaint is, a bit heavy.

I agree, the Trencher 3.8 (40 series) tire looks good. The height & width looks ok (6.89x3.43"), compared to the massively wide (6.50x4.15") Trencher X. Line you say, I wonder why Pro-line has discontinued the Trencher 40 series tire? Anyways, A Main does have some in stock though:
https://www.amainhobbies.com/prolin...-truck-wheel-2-m2-pro1160-13/p387119?v=184777

Maybe this is why they were discontinued, as A Main's tire description shows this on their site for the Trencher 40 series tires (I can't imagine how heavy the Trencher X tires are then...) Quote "These tires are larger, and heavier than most. The use of a quality, high torque steering servo is highly recommended." Unquote

Also keep in mind, these 3.8 (40 series) Trenchers are on zero offset wheels, so there is the possibility of some clearance issues...
 
I figured the big diameter SRC wheel must be close to a 4.5". I agree a 4.0" wheel is a good size, and could maybe go as big as a 4.2" diameter wheel, as long as tires are tall enough. I was thinking of the Outcast myself, but just not sure of that small wheelbase being able to handle 6S power at aall? The Backflips are good (have for my Kraton), only complaint is, a bit heavy.

I agree, the Trencher 3.8 (40 series) tire looks good. The height & width looks ok (6.89x3.43"), compared to the massively wide (6.50x4.15") Trencher X. Line you say, I wonder why Pro-line has discontinued the Trencher 40 series tire? Anyways, A Main does have some in stock though:
https://www.amainhobbies.com/prolin...-truck-wheel-2-m2-pro1160-13/p387119?v=184777

Maybe this is why they were discontinued, as A Main's tire description shows this on their site for the Trencher 40 series tires (I can't imagine how heavy the Trencher X tires are then...) Quote "These tires are larger, and heavier than most. The use of a quality, high torque steering servo is highly recommended." Unquote

Also keep in mind, these 3.8 (40 series) Trenchers are on zero offset wheels, so there is the possibility of some clearance issues...

I agree that they are beefy :) It is funny though that amain didn't include this note on the Trenchers :)
https://www.amainhobbies.com/prolin...offset-2-black-m2-pro1184-11/p387125?v=217641

I like the fact that they are more narrow than a lot of these beefy wheels, it would be nice of Pro-Line would show the weight
in the specs. Yes I saw that they are on 0 offset wheels.

I did find some 40 series in stock here in Europe as well, I don't really like to buy discontinued stuff, murphy's law kick in and I blow a tire, but why not, everything gets discontinued. It sure looks like it would'nt be a problem with the grip though :)


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Check out the Rock Rage

Proline1199-13RockRage1.jpg
 
I agree that they are beefy :) It is funny though that amain didn't include this note on the Trenchers :)
https://www.amainhobbies.com/prolin...offset-2-black-m2-pro1184-11/p387125?v=217641

I like the fact that they are more narrow than a lot of these beefy wheels, it would be nice of Pro-Line would show the weight
in the specs. Yes I saw that they are on 0 offset wheels.

I did find some 40 series in stock here in Europe as well, I don't really like to buy discontinued stuff, murphy's law kick in and I blow a tire, but why not, everything gets discontinued. It sure looks like it would'nt be a problem with the grip though :)


View attachment 19670

View attachment 19674

Check out the Rock Rage

View attachment 19672

I agree the 3.8 Trencher's width is ok, & not as wide as some even larger tires. They also look good, as I like the sidewall & tread. Many people use them on their MT's. I wonder if A Main meant to put the "heavy weight" comment for the Trencher X (4.15" width), and not the 3.8 Trencher's (3.43"), by mistake? Keep in mind, regardless of weight, the Trencher's are still a very large tire. The stock Kraton tires are 6.5" tall compared to 6.89" Trencher's, & Backflips are 3.0" wide compared to 3.43" wide Trencher's.

I like the basher backyard setup in the Outcast video. Man, I sure like that 6 wheel drive Rock Rage (it must climb up anything). Hey wait a minute, their is no suspension on the center wheels.....ha, ha LOL
 
I agree the 3.8 Trencher's width is ok, & not as wide as some even larger tires. They also look good, as I like the sidewall & tread. Many people use them on their MT's. I wonder if A Main meant to put the "heavy weight" comment for the Trencher X (4.15" width), and not the 3.8 Trencher's (3.43"), by mistake? Keep in mind, regardless of weight, the Trencher's are still a very large tire. The stock Kraton tires are 6.5" tall compared to 6.89" Trencher's, & Backflips are 3.0" wide compared to 3.43" wide Trencher's.

I like the basher backyard setup in the Outcast video. Man, I sure like that 6 wheel drive Rock Rage (it must climb up anything). Hey wait a minute, their is no suspension on the center wheels.....ha, ha LOL

Yes, they probably wrote the note on the wrong tire :) Even though I know that my Outcast will come with the Backflips which seem great, I've done some more searching about these tires, according to some forum posts the Trencher 40 series 1160-13 was discontinued several years ago. I have found some Louise ST-ULLDOZE (Louise tires are branded Duratrax in the U.S) that seems real nice, they are also discontinued. The Trenchers might have been discontinued due to the 0 offset rim but since Louise's tire, that seems to have some offset, also got discontinued it may be that people like big tires but not narrow ones !?
Pro-Line Trencher 3.8" 1160-13 height 6.89" width 3.43"
Louise ST-ULLDOZE 3.8 LT3288B height 6.82" width 3.2 (the also have/had ST PIONEER 3.8 with the same width,height)
and then we have Pro-Line Badlands MX38 3.8 10127-13 height 6.91" width 3.70", seems to be a good seller, back in stock soon...........

lt3288b_medium.png
 
I like the Stock Kraton wheels on my Talion
 

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