Talion Talion V3 or Kraton V3 for racing on grass/tarmac

N1ch0llz

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Hi,

I am about to buy my first real RC and I can’t decide between the Talion V3 and Kraton V3.

Basically my friend has bought a HPI Trophy Truggy Flux and I want something that can keep up and preferably thrash him on all surfaces we ride on.

We will probably ride around grass parks, pavements and light off road stuff.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,

Rob
 

WoodiE

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@N1ch0llz if you was doing racing I would probably lean more towards the Talion, but the kind of racing you're doing really either the Talion or Kraton would be perfect. Pick the one that looks the best to you and you'll be good to go!
 

N1ch0llz

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@WoodiE thanks for your reply. So is the Talion typically faster than the Kraton on smoothish ground? The Kraton looks meaner/cooler but I want to make sure that I can beat the HPI
 

Dingo

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@WoodiE thanks for your reply. So is the Talion typically faster than the Kraton on smoothish ground? The Kraton looks meaner/cooler but I want to make sure that I can beat the HPI
The Talion does come with a larger tooth pinion gear, though that is easily fixed by an upgrade. Additionally, the shock towers will be shorter, as well as the suspension components such as shocks. You won't get the clearance that a Kraton provides, but on short grass, tarmac, or other surfaces with less rolling resistance, I've enjoyed my Talion more than my Kraton.

There are a few less aftermarket parts for the Talion compared to the Kraton, but you can pretty easily repurpose parts to fit your needs.

I love my Kraton, but I adore my Talion in comparison.
 

RCROD

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I also have both the 2018 Kraton & V3 Talion. If your ultimate goal is to just beat your buddy, I'd go with the Arrma Talion. It's labelled a 70+mph speed truggy for a reason. It's fast ! It is noticeably lighter (by 1lb 12oz) and much more aerodynamic than the Kraton, so with similar final gearing (basis tire size & pinion), the Talion should always have quicker accerlation and have more top end speed than the Kraton, especially on smoother surfaces, depending on traction. The Talion is the best of both worlds, as the suspension can be adjusted low for massive speed runs, or raised, for off-road. Also, since the Talion has less weight and drag, plus lighter tires than the Kraton, a larger pinion (for top speed) can be used with less motor heat buildup, etc, compared to the Kraton.

However, if you are looking for the best RTR "RC BASHER" available, the Arrma Kraton, is I believe, your best choice out there. It's a super tough monster truck "mixed" with a race truggy, so it has better ground clearance than other truggies + it does 60+mph out of the box. For even more ground clearance, Backflip tires are a good upgrade for the Kraton. You can't lose with either the Talion or Kraton, no matter what you choose.

Let us know what you choose? If you get the Talion, we would be interested in how many car lengths you beat him by......& hopefully, your bud likes the rear view of your new Arrma...
 

N1ch0llz

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@Dingo @RCROD thanks you both for your feedback I think I am sold on the Talion, as just one final check I have been trawling YouTube hoping to find some races on different surfaces that would give a good comparison but I haven’t found anything really so I think I will take your advice and go with the Talion.

Are there any essential upgrades that you would recommend if I get the 2018 V3 version?

Thanks again.
 

Dingo

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In regards to immediate upgrades, I would recommend an aluminum servo mount. The V3 was upgraded, but I still managed to munch a few right after purchasing my Talion. I went with Voltage Hobbies, though their parts tend to be a bit heavier.

https://www.voltagehobbies.com/store/c10/V3/2018_Talion_Upgrades_.html

Other reasonable starter upgrades
  • Bearing kit (I use Fast Eddy kits) on normal schedule
  • RPM Racing wing mount
  • RPM rear A-arms and mudflaps (I love mine)
Everything past that is likely to simply be replaced if/when they break. I'm also someone who is upgrading ALL the things since these are the first cars I'm truly invested in. The cars are pretty resilient, but always check all of your screws prior to running, and every so often afterward as well. I find that my pillow balls like to back out on my Kraton, but I keep a field repair kit, so I simply pull off the wheel and screws it back in. I really should just loctite it in place.

I'll try to get some images of my cars this week. They're at my buddy's place waiting on work, but I plan on documenting my full rebuild after a tumble that bent my chassis and suspension mount. It took an end-over-end tumble about 100' down a hill and homed in on the only boulder in the area.
 

RCROD

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In regards to immediate upgrades, I would recommend an aluminum servo mount. The V3 was upgraded, but I still managed to munch a few right after purchasing my Talion. I went with Voltage Hobbies, though their parts tend to be a bit heavier.

https://www.voltagehobbies.com/store/c10/V3/2018_Talion_Upgrades_.html

Other reasonable starter upgrades
  • Bearing kit (I use Fast Eddy kits) on normal schedule
  • RPM Racing wing mount
  • RPM rear A-arms and mudflaps (I love mine)
Everything past that is likely to simply be replaced if/when they break. I'm also someone who is upgrading ALL the things since these are the first cars I'm truly invested in. The cars are pretty resilient, but always check all of your screws prior to running, and every so often afterward as well. I find that my pillow balls like to back out on my Kraton, but I keep a field repair kit, so I simply pull off the wheel and screws it back in. I really should just loctite it in place.

I'll try to get some images of my cars this week. They're at my buddy's place waiting on work, but I plan on documenting my full rebuild after a tumble that bent my chassis and suspension mount. It took an end-over-end tumble about 100' down a hill and homed in on the only boulder in the area.
Dingo. Damn dude, must have been a few end-over-ends tumbling down 100ft. We would definitely like to see your full rebuild. Arrma's are definitely tough, as had some good bashing again this weekend. After hitting a jump yesterday, my Kraton was heading right for me & since I was standing on the edge of a cliff, I was only able to lift a leg so it would miss me, & I accidentally stepped on it with all my weight. No damage, & I just drove away again...

Personally, I would not use locktite when screwing pillow balls into the composite suspension arms, as it maybe difficult to remove later (you cannot heat up the composite/plastic). However, if nothing else works, the "only' threadlock you should use on plastic is Loctite 425. It is expensive and CA based. I've heard white (Elmers) glue works well in plastic, and this is what I would try first. I've also heard any CA based glue can tend to make the plastic overly brittle around the screw (or pillow ball in this case), and the threaded plastic can, on occasion, come out with the screw. Otherwards, this could weaken the end of the suspension. I would maybe even try silicone (that's safe on plastic) before threadlock or any strong CA based glues. I have noticed there is a lot of play with front wheels on the Talion, so wonder if shimming (8x12 shims) between the front hubs and hex would help this problem (less side to side play causing less vibration, etc)?

N1ch0llz: I agree with Dingo, recommend fast Eddy bearing kit (works out to $1 a bearing), and I also recommend rear mud guards. If you use RPM guards, you must also use their rear arms though. Check out ebay mud guards as these are a worthwhile upgrade. Unfortunately, RPM does NOT make a V3 Talion wing mount, although this would be a good upgrade? I definitely recommend an RPM rear skid plate (only 11.0g). This weight increase is well worth it for the much needed underneath chassis protection. Careful adding any aluminum upgrades, etc, as you want to keep your Talion light, so you can keep that wannabe HPI buddy in your rear mirror...
 
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Mongoose

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Watch these two if you haven't already. I love Vas's videos because they give the best comparisons of the RC's running. He hits the same spots with all of them and on the same surfaces. You can really get a good idea of how they compare in speed, handling and flying.
 

Dingo

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Unfortunately, RPM does NOT make a V3 Talion wing mount, although this would be a good upgrade? I definitely recommend an RPM rear skid plate (only 11.0g). This weight increase is well worth it for the much needed underneath chassis protection. Careful adding any aluminum upgrades, etc, as you want to keep your Talion light, so you can keep that wannabe HPI buddy in your rear mirror...
Now you have me wondering what mount I'm about to receive in the mail this week. The one I've ordered is listed below under the Talion section of the RPM website.

http://www.rpmrcproducts.com/shop/chassis-components/chassis-accessories/arrma-durango-wing-mounts/

Guess I could pair it up with a Kraton wing if the mount is too tall.
 

RCROD

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Now you have me wondering what mount I'm about to receive in the mail this week. The one I've ordered is listed below under the Talion section of the RPM website.

http://www.rpmrcproducts.com/shop/chassis-components/chassis-accessories/arrma-durango-wing-mounts/

Guess I could pair it up with a Kraton wing if the mount is too tall.
Dingo, the RPM wing mount you ordered is for the the Kraton, the V1/V2 Talion, & the Outcast. Unfortunately, no aftermarket wing mount is available for the new Talion. The RPM wing mount is taller, but you could also use on your V3 Talion, at least until Arrma has LP (Low Profile) wing mounts finally "in stock". Hopefully an aftermarket company (RPM/TBR, etc) will step-up & offer a stronger LP wing mount for the new Talion? However, due to Arrma's ongoing court battle, & since the new LP wing mount is only designed for the V3 Talion, we may not see this happening soon...
 

Dingo

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Dingo, the RPM wing mount you ordered is for the the Kraton, the V1/V2 Talion, & the Outcast. Unfortunately, no aftermarket wing mount is available for the new Talion. The RPM wing mount is taller, but you could also use on your V3 TalioN.
Oh bloody hell! At least it'll get the car running again until I can source an OEM part.
 

Piecejointe

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Watch these two if you haven't already. I love Vas's videos because they give the best comparisons of the RC's running. He hits the same spots with all of them and on the same surfaces. You can really get a good idea of how they compare in speed, handling and flying.
Comparison video of the two, even better:

 

RCROD

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Oh bloody hell! At least it'll get the car running again until I can source an OEM part.
True, as long as you can get that speed beast back running again, that's what really matters. I recall another member also used the Kraton OEM wing mount on the new Talion, so should work? Hopefully the V3 Talion wing mount replacement part will be in stock soon. I tried pressing RPM to make a LP wing mount for the V3 Talion, but was advised that they're waiting to see what happens with the court battle before making any new Arrma parts...
 

RCROD

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Comparison video of the two, even better:

piecejointe. I also thought of this video for this thread, so good find. JayTee mentions the Talion tires are worn out, so the larger Kraton tires would make even more of a difference offroad + the battery in the Kraton has a higher C rating in the video. Depending on the surface, you can always put larger tires on the Talion, if more traction is needed. The Talion should win in a drag race when everything is equal (traction, battery, etc), as it is 1.75lbs lighter than the Kraton (in RC terms, this is a big weight difference). Furthermore, the Talion is also more aerodynamic which should make it faster in any top speed runs.
 
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RCROD

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Most of that 1.75lbs comes from the wheels & tires I would imagine?
Yes, most of the weight difference is due to the wheels/tires. There are also quite a few other weight differences that all add up. The Kraton body is heavier, it has a small front & rear bumper, center roll cage, beefier steering blocks & rear hubs, longer axles, longer front/rear shock towers, longer front & rear shocks, front mud guards, longer wing mount & even the Kraton rear wing is larger. The front & rear chassis braces are also slightly different (not sure why though, but the Talion wheelbase is 1mm longer?). Otherwards, the new V3 Talion & Kraton are "EXACTLY" the same. LOL
 

N1ch0llz

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Thanks everyone for all your information. After seeing the videos the difference is so marginal and the Kraton appeared to actually jump further. Could this have been just down to the wind/driver because I would have expected the Talion to jump further due to it being lighter and faster? Or could be down to gear ratio?

If the difference is so marginal I am now thinking the Kraton might be the better buy just because it should be able to cope with more terrain and is a bit tougher.
 

RCROD

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Thanks everyone for all your information. After seeing the videos the difference is so marginal and the Kraton appeared to actually jump further. Could this have been just down to the wind/driver because I would have expected the Talion to jump further due to it being lighter and faster? Or could be down to gear ratio?

If the difference is so marginal I am now thinking the Kraton might be the better buy just because it should be able to cope with more terrain and is a bit tougher.
I have not watched RC playground videos for a while now, but recall the Talion jumped quite far? Yes, in reality, the Talion should jump further due to it being lighter (unless a strong head wind of course). However, I would think the Kraton would make up a lot of this weight difference with the bigger tires during takeoff & also the extra traction leading up to the jump.

It's a tough call, as the Talion & Kraton are both great vehicles. I could not choose, so got both. If your main goal is for best offroad basher (mix between a race truggy & monster truck), I would go with the Kraton. The Kraton has more ground clearance & will be able to tackle more offroad terrain and is maybe a bit more durable (tougher Lexan body, beefier steering blocks & rear hubs, roll cage, etc) & has more aftermarket support.
 

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