Talion Talion V3 or Kraton V3 for racing on grass/tarmac

[N1ch0llz]

After everything I have read/seen my conclusion is that if your a serious racer on smooth(ish) surfaces then the Talion is the way to go but for the average punter who wants to be able to blast round all sorts of terrains and the occasional race then the kraton is the way to go.

I just want to beat my mates HPI Truggy which I am not sure if it closer to the Talion racing pedigree or the Basher Kraton. My heart says spend and low centre of gravity of the Talion should be the best way to guarantee this but my head says that I will get a better all round machine in the kraton that may get beat on tarmac/gravel but it will hold its own on short grass and probably beat it on anything else.

My dilemma is that I could order a Talion now and it would be here middle of next week but the Kraton isn’t due in stock till May . Is this because of the lawsuit? Should I wait for the all reader Kraton or just go with the readily available Talion (if I can adjust is suspension enough to clear most surfaces)?

 

[Dingo]

I'm quite happy with the ground clearance available. Keep in mind this is with a softer spring and not raised all the way. Ground clearance hadn't been an issue for me every with the Talion. I get on well even in 2-3" long grass and leave my buddy's Kraton behind (due to gearing)

 

[Megasty]

After everything I have read/seen my conclusion is that if your a serious racer on smooth(ish) surfaces then the Talion is the way to go but for the average punter who wants to be able to blast round all sorts of terrains and the occasional race then the kraton is the way to go.

I just want to beat my mates HPI Truggy which I am not sure if it closer to the Talion racing pedigree or the Basher Kraton. My heart says spend and low centre of gravity of the Talion should be the best way to guarantee this but my head says that I will get a better all round machine in the kraton that may get beat on tarmac/gravel but it will hold its own on short grass and probably beat it on anything else.

My dilemma is that I could order a Talion now and it would be here middle of next week but the Kraton isn’t due in stock till May . Is this because of the lawsuit? Should I wait for the all reader Kraton or just go with the readily available Talion (if I can adjust is suspension enough to clear most surfaces)?

Both cars will utterly wreck the HPI Truggy. I had both the Flux & 4.6. The 4.6 can fly if you keep it tuned but the Flux is a 4S lagger. I did run mine on 6S with upgrades but handling was a serious issue even with better tires. The stock Flux will have no chance vs either on 4S, let alone 6S.

 

[N1ch0llz]

For comparison of the jumps the Talion on 6s with 16T pinion at time 5:40 in the video is a the biggest jump in my opinion and that far less than the Kraton on 6s with 14T pinion at time 7:42.

Could the Talion handle 14T pinion and would it then out jump the Kraton?

 

[N1ch0llz]

@Dingo your Talion looks sweet and hearing that it leaves your Kraton behind just adds more to the confusion. Wish I could afford both!!

 

[N1ch0llz]

@Megasty thanks for this feedback I now have the positive confirmation that no matter what I pick I will be able to kick his butt not that I am competitive or any itsjust for bragging rights

 

[Megasty]

For comparison of the jumps the Talion on 6s with 16T pinion at time 5:40 in the video is a the biggest jump in my opinion and that far less than the Kraton on 6s with 14T pinion at time 7:42.

Could the Talion handle 14T pinion and would it then out jump the Kraton?

16T is the larger, faster pinion setup. 14T would only make it slower.

Both cars are nutty on 6S, speedwise.

The V3 Kraton OoB does 52mph on 12T stock pinion. You can up it to 15T & still be safe on temps for bashing & racing. That can push it to 58mph.

The V3 Tailion OoB does 55mph on 13T stock pinion. You can up it to 16T & have no temp issues (It can even handle 17T most of the time) The 16T blasts the thing to 62mph.

Both have insane acceleration that will have you running 35-40mph in 3 seconds, but that kind of acceleration will have you wheeling on tarmac. It's fine to punch it on grass unless it's super dry.

 

[RCROD]

16T is the larger, faster pinion setup. 14T would only make it slower.

Both cars are nutty on 6S, speedwise.

The V3 Kraton OoB does 52mph on 12T stock pinion. You can up it to 15T & still be safe on temps for bashing & racing. That can push it to 58mph.

The V3 Tailion OoB does 55mph on 13T stock pinion. You can up it to 16T & have no temp issues (It can even handle 17T most of the time) The 16T blasts the thing to 62mph.

Both have insane acceleration that will have you running 35-40mph in 3 seconds, but that kind of acceleration will have you wheeling on tarmac. It's fine to punch it on grass unless it's super dry.

Megasty. I'd like to personally say thanks, including on behalf of many Arrma members, as this is really good useful info and actual facts that you have provided here on the forum. I think we all knew, the HPI Flux did "not" stand a chance against either the Talion & Kraton, but we, including N1ch0IIz, definitely still like to hear these facts from your experience. I went with a 15T (Robinson Racing) pinion in my Kraton and a 16T (Tekno) pinion in my Talion, so great to see your comments on this also.

 

[Megasty]

Megasty. I'd like to personally say thanks, including on behalf of many Arrma members, as this is really good useful info and actual facts that you have provided here on the forum. I think we all knew, the HPI Flux did "not" stand a chance against either the Talion & Kraton, but we, including N1ch0IIz, definitely still like to hear these facts from your experience. I went with a 15T (Robinson Racing) pinion in my Kraton and a 16T (Tekno) pinion in my Talion, so great to see your comments on this also.

No problem. I've been keeping comprehensive records of runs & setups for years. The easiest way to wreck a RTR is run it OOB so I check all the screws, fluids, diffs, gears, noting what I changed out. I keep notes of preliminary run results to make sure they are in line with performance expectations. I do that seasonally as well so I can easily maintain the cars & know when to do it. I have 16 years worth of records for 50+ cars. They are folder separated by manufacture. It takes the most time & space typing up breaks & repairs. So obviously my largest folder is labeled "Traxxas" 7 cars in 9 years worth of crap is 15 times larger than my Arrma folder of 13 cars in 5 years

 

[RCROD]

No problem. I've been keeping comprehensive records of runs & setups for years. The easiest way to wreck a RTR is run it OOB so I check all the screws, fluids, diffs, gears, noting what I changed out. I keep notes of preliminary run results to make sure they are in line with performance expectations. I do that seasonally as well so I can easily maintain the cars & know when to do it. I have 16 years worth of records for 50+ cars. They are folder separated by manufacture. It takes the most time & space typing up breaks & repairs. So obviously my largest folder is labeled "Traxxas" 7 cars in 9 years worth of crap is 15 times larger than my Arrma folder of 13 cars in 5 years

Your kidding, you had lots of breaks & repairs with Traxxas (damn plastic cars anyways)?

 

[Megasty]

Your kidding, you had lots of breaks & repairs with Traxxas (damn plastic cars anyways)?

My longest entry is 9 pages of BS when the Traxxas batteries in my E-revo puffed. The batteries got large enough to blow the chassis apart. 11 pieces to be exact. Pieces of cars went flying everywhere. A tire ended up with a dogbone stuck in it. Both the ESC & motor was damaged. Gearbox cracked & internal gears ruined. The servo wire was pulled from the casing . . . & that's just the start of it. That was the last day I drove that POS & it had $680 worth of upgrades.

 

[RCROD]

My longest entry is 9 pages of BS when the Traxxas batteries in my E-revo puffed. The batteries got large enough to blow the chassis apart. 11 pieces to be exact. Pieces of cars went flying everywhere. A tire ended up with a dogbone stuck in it. Both the ESC & motor was damaged. Gearbox cracked & internal gears ruined. The servo wire was pulled from the casing . . . & that's just the start of it. That was the last day I drove that POS & it had $680 worth of upgrades.

Wow, that's all I can really say about that. I take it you don't like that Traxxas Piece Of poopy poopy bang bang.....anymore?

 

[Megasty]

Wow, that's all I can really say about that. I take it you don't like that Traxxas Piece Of poopy poopy bang bang.....anymore?

When a battery in a Kraton puffs, you unstrap it & take it out. When a battery in an E-revo puffs, it's stuck & you better run for cover & yet the new one has those same tiny compartments.

 

[N1ch0llz]

Thanks for clearing up the gearing information for me, for some reason I thought it would like on my mountain bike where smaller gears give faster top end. Clearly I was wrong so thanks for that.

Also, really good to here some exact facts about the top speeds of them. @Megasty have you noticed much difference in the handling/cornering ability, does the Kraton roll more due to its higher centre of gravity?

 

[Dingo]

The Kraton has a much higher CG in comparison and will most definitely underwater more than the Talion.

I've found that my Talion is much more responsive due to less suspension travel, but my friend who only has a Kraton says that it feels like he's driving a video game compared to his car.

These are all anecdotal, but I've found the Talion to be able to thrash pretty hard.

 

[Megasty]

The Kraton has a much higher CG in comparison and will most definitely underwater more than the Talion.

I've found that my Talion is much more responsive due to less suspension travel, but my friend who only has a Kraton says that it feels like he's driving a video game compared to his car.

These are all anecdotal, but I've found the Talion to be able to thrash pretty hard.

Indeed, the Talion drives like it's on rails. You can punch it to hell & back & it will stay planted & arrow straight. The only car I ever driven that could do this was a Losi 8ight-e that I fixed up for a friend. But I think the Talion would wreck that as well. I put Backflips on mine w/ Kraton hubs on a 16T pinion & left it stock other than that.

 

[RCROD]

Thanks for clearing up the gearing information for me, for some reason I thought it would like on my mountain bike where smaller gears give faster top end. Clearly I was wrong so thanks for that.

Also, really good to here some exact facts about the top speeds of them. @Megasty have you noticed much difference in the handling/cornering ability, does the Kraton roll more due to its higher centre of gravity?

Actually you are correct, depending which gears you are talking about on your bike. On a MTB or motorbike, smaller gears on the rear (cassette) will give more top speed. However, the opposite is also true on the front of your bike, as a larger gear on the front (chain ring) will also give more top speed. Changing the pinion on your Arrma to a larger size is like changing to a larger chain ring (higher gearing) on your bike.

With the stock tires on the Kraton in any loose conditions, even with the higher center of gravity, the Kraton will usually slide, instead of rolling, due to traction loss.

 

[Mongoose]

"Traction loss" yep there is plenty of that on the stock Kraton tires....