Kraton Unusual Kraton MOTOR & ESC questions :)

[KumaFriend]

This is Primarily a Motor and ESC Question
---------------
Hello Folks!
For reasons too complicated to waste time on, I ended up with TWO Kratons.
"Kraton #1" is an all New Kraton V1 with no ESC, no servo, no Tx or Rx, no shocks, no wheels/tires but it does have a NEW Red BLX 2050 motor.
"Kraton #2" has seen some use but it appears to be in good shape - that is, with the exception of its THIRD broken rear diff (assembled with no shims)!
The motor has been upgraded to a Mamba Monster II, (2200kv?) and the matching ESC.
------------ (pause - hahah)
"For Kraton #1" I'm planning on installing the good Tekno Shocks (based on what I've read on this forum - but without titanium-coated shafts due to cost). I also have a new wing, new RPM rear skid plate, front skid plate and bumper.
I'll use the Traxxas (cough, cough) Tx and a spare Traxxas Servo as well.
------------ (pause #2)
So ........... I'm planning to rob the new diff from "Kraton #1" in order to begin having fun with "Kraton #2" and then I can build a new differential at my leisure (for which I have the parts).
So ..........what's the question?
Well, I'm attempting to decide whether to install another Mamba Monster II with ESC or a 4092 Leopard with a HobbyWing 150A in "Kraton #2" (and sell the BLX or use it elsewhere) or just install the HobbyWing and keep the Red BLX.
What would you do?
Is it worth upgrading the motor?
Is the Leopard 4092 or the 4074 appropriate?
What kv do you recommend for the Leopards??? (I expect to be running 6S.)
Is the HobbyWing 150A considered adequate?
And by the way, I have a bunch of mounted dB Copperheads as well as a bunch of mounted dB Minokawa Tires. Any opinions on those two?
-------------(3rd pause - hahah)
So what do you recommend?
About the Motor? (Which one and what kv if we go with either of the Leopards? I'm guessing the recommended kv for the two Leopards would be different???)
What about the ESC?
What about the tires?
Also, any words of wisdom about the building of the diff - something I've never done!!!
-------------
Thanks very much!

 

[Vanning]

On 6S.....a Kraton tends to get hot with higher KV motors and heavy tall tires. You may not be able to fit a small enough pinion in it to keep it cool. 2200KV is a hot motor in a heavy Kraton. You will notice....the bigger the rc scale, the higher the battery voltage and the lower the KV will be on the motor in it. Kraton seem to be much heavier when compared to a race Truggy. The stock motor in a Kraton is or was 2050kv...in my opinion, I would run that for bashing on 5S with proline Badlands and a Castle Creation Mamba Monster X. You could probably toy with 6S and run on 4S no problem still with that setup. Keeping the vehicle light with with light weight tires. If you start to get your Kraton heavy with a taped up body and big heavy tall tires....you may want to drop in the 1480 or 1780 KV range long cans and gear way up in the 20 tooth area. Anything lower than 6S will become sluggish. If you are set on 6S....you may want a lower KV. The red motor that comes out of the Arrma Big Rock, That motor seems to work well in stuff. It's all trial and error but I gave you some rules on the electrical. Sometimes when you go up in voltage you may want to come down on KV. I can get away with more KV and voltage in a lighter rc with a lighter driveline.

 

[Jerry-rigged]

The v1 "short stack" motor has some power, but it runs hot in the Kraton, even on 4s. It did better in the Talion, with the smaller truggy tires, even though the Talion was running a extra tooth on the pinion. (15t vs 14t)

Now my Kraton is running the Nero redcan, it has silly torque from top to bottom, and runs very cool on 4s - 6s should not be a problem.

Also, if you decided to run the 4092 motor, be sure to rebuild all your diffs with the ThomasP "Bullet proof diff" method.

And be sure to check out all his "Pro Tip" Videos -
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL6Pyyc5r3b4jQJXtTQxjfEcYN1ZfwOsvX

 

[KumaFriend]

Thanks very much!
I have been studying the videos and there's a lot of useful information.
Regarding your comment about the motors - I'm still a little confused.
I do have another Castle 2200kv and access to Leopard motors at reasonable prices - but I remain unclear about kv.
I'd like to take "Kraton #1" and build it into a great performer, nothing to win a race, but something that is as bullet-proof as possible and we can have a lot of fun with in differing terrains..
As mentioned, I'm installing the best Tekno Shocks with their heaviest duty springs (although I'm still undecided about length - should I do 90mm all around or 90 and 80?)
I'll also do a servo mount upgrade if that's still considered to be advisable.
The RPM rear and front (with bumper) seem like obvious enhancements. (I have the RPM A-arms for front and rear but it seems that the stock Kraton parts are strong enough - so I'm keeping the RPM in reserve for the moment.)
Regarding tire size and weight, I've had both the original Copperheads and the newer Minokawa recommended - any thoughts about those?
I guess that's enough for one message - hahah - thanks again!
Best Regards,
Bob

 

[Jerry-rigged]

KV = motor speed, but not power. Confusing, yeah, I know. Two motors with the same frame / rotor size, the higher KV motor should make more power, the lower KV should make more torque. Lower KV should run a bit smoother and cooler. I say Should, because there are acceptations to every rule. Makes it confusing.

Also confusing, Arrma has sold three different 1/8 scale BLX 2050kv motors. The v1 motor is red with small fins, 4059 sized - so I call it the "short stack". The v2 motor is 4074 (longer) and black - easy to tell apart. Then there is the Nero motor - 4075, and red with small fins. Looks almost just like the v1 motor, but longer.

BUT - that Castle 2200kv motor gets used in Truggies a lot. I don't think it will be an issue, seeing as you already have it. Maybe use a pinion on the smaller size to allow the motor to rev. Start with a 12t, watch temps, and adjust up or down from there.

Shocks - IDK, I am running the stock red shocks. They are decent, but I have broke a few lower eyelets. I have been considering a set up Tekno's for my Typhon, though.

Servo and mount are a good idea too.

RPM - I don't use any of their stuff, and my 2 arrma v1's are pretty close to bullet-proof.

My Kraton is still running the Copperheads. Not a great tire, but not bad. They are about done, though - thin tread & too many sidewall patches. I really want a set of Backflips as the next basher tire for my Kraton.

Nero motor vs v1-

 

[Vanning]

The 2200 KV Castle in a Kraton on 6S..didn't do too well for me. You may be ok with it on a small pinion and the Pro-Line Badland tires. A small diameter tire is the same as putting in a smaller pinion. You will also have to rely on good fans. The Kraton is on the heavy side...the diffs are rather large and so are the drive shafts. The drive line isn't very light or smooth compared to race Truggies. Although it is decent enough. The Kraton needs to be looked at as bigger and heavier. I run a 2200KV in my Tekno MT410...it runs very cool on 4S, 5S and 6S. The drive line is like budder, it's way lighter than a Kraton. 2200KV ran hot as hell in my Kraton but I was able to get it to somewhat work. It liked 4S, 5S and the smaller lighter Badlands.

I really like that red can 2000kv BLX motor. That seems like a great motor to bolt up in a Kraton to run 6S. A few of us on here had some Leo motors that just wouldn't run cool. Made no sense other than something may have been wrong with the motors. My next motor to get will be a 2000KV BLX. Once I start building a new Kraton.

The best overall tires I have ever used in RC are the Back Flips. Hands down....these are awesome. I also like Badland 3.8 when smaller diameter is needed. They do not look that good on a Kraton but not bad. A fun tire is the big ole Trencher X. They are like huge pillows. Overall...Backflips ar my go to. They are the perfect tire almost always for me.

 

[jonUF02]

I'll agree with all the above. After much testing and swapping (6s only) I ended up with the Nero 2000kv motor, because 2200kv Castle 1515 gets too hot, and the MMX ESC, because I NEED the ability to set all the parameters infinitely in the software. MM2 is only 120A rated, but the MAX8 ESC (or Arrma branded version) would be my 2nd choice.

 

[KumaFriend]

Thanks very much!

The 2200 KV Castle in a Kraton on 6S..didn't do too well for me. You may be ok with it on a small pinion and the Pro-Line Badland tires. A small diameter tire is the same as putting in a smaller pinion. You will also have to rely on good fans. The Kraton is on the heavy side...the diffs are rather large and so are the drive shafts. The drive line isn't very light or smooth compared to race Truggies. Although it is decent enough. The Kraton needs to be looked at as bigger and heavier. I run a 2200KV in my Tekno MT410...it runs very cool on 4S, 5S and 6S. The drive line is like budder, it's way lighter than a Kraton. 2200KV ran hot as hell in my Kraton but I was able to get it to somewhat work. It liked 4S, 5S and the smaller lighter Badlands.

I really like that red can 2000kv BLX motor. That seems like a great motor to bolt up in a Kraton to run 6S. A few of us on here had some Leo motors that just wouldn't run cool. Made no sense other than something may have been wrong with the motors. My next motor to get will be a 2000KV BLX. Once I start building a new Kraton.

The best overall tires I have ever used in RC are the Back Flips. Hands down....these are awesome. I also like Badland 3.8 when smaller diameter is needed. They do not look that good on a Kraton but not bad. A fun tire is the big ole Trencher X. They are like huge pillows. Overall...Backflips ar my go to. They are the perfect tire almost always for me.

(SUBSTANTIVE REPLY WITH QUESTIONS)
I bought a used Kraton with the MM2200 and I'm about to change the rear differential and "give it a spin" - will definitely report back. By the way, the previous owner is knowledgable but admitted that he didn't use any shims in his rebuilding attempts. Shims appear to be obligatory so that may have been his problem.

Diff oil choices may also have an impact but I'm confused because I just opened up a "new" (definitely never run) rear diff from a V1 and it seems more like grease in there, not clear oil. Any suggestions?

About tires, lots of folks seem to love the "Backflips" so I plan to give them a try. I was under the impression that Trenchers are overly heavy - and by the way, maybe I should go with the smaller Badlands or even a 12T pinion with the MM or the Leopard? (I'll be running 6S.)

As an aside, I thought I'd try some paddle tires in the winter. There are now at least two types - Proline and Traxxas? - any thoughts?

Another issue: Every Kraton I've seen has obvious wear on the shock tower. I was under the impression that carbon fiber versions were available but can't find them???

Thanks very much for reading!
KumaFriend

 

[Vanning]

The best thing for a Kraton is no rear wing and a body that looks like a van, a truck with a cap or any other tall protective body. I used a Parma Grave Digger just painted it black with a few stickers. You will not damage the rear tower or shocks that way. Just my opinion.

 

[jonUF02]

Search Ebay for "Arrma carbon" there was a place from Germany making the towers, but I don't see them right now. There is a new one from USA, but designed a bit different. They have some listed for Talion, which is the same stock part. The German ones I have were exact duplicate of original. The new ones have rounded corners and extra shock positions.

 

[Jerry-rigged]

Factory oil is either 10k or 7k, not sure. I use 10k front and rear in my diffs. Center is 125k. Lots of people prefer higher weight - especially in the center. If I ran 6s, I would probably go higher, but I am 4s only.