Vorteks Vorteks ESC and Battery investigation

[slick2500]

Just because your battery says it is 120c doesn't mean much especially from cheap brands. Your battery very well could have a true c rate of 10c and that would definitely explain your situation.

https://www.arrmaforum.com/threads/c-rates-what-is-the-deal.17174/

Let me find the thread from Rc talk but someone tested 3 different batteries from 3 different companies with their Spektrum esc and all 3 batteries cut off at different voltages.

First post of this thread.

"For example on "Auto - Low" my SMC 4S packs didnt cut out until they had hit 2.6-2.8v/c. My Hoovo 4S packs cut out around 3.6V/C and my Zee 4S packs cut out around 3.75V/C."

https://www.rctalk.com/forum/threads/spektrum-firma-160a-esc-lvc-setting-info.131455/

 

[Adiabatic]

My next step was going to be to get the Spektrum bluetooth module in the spring and monitor the voltage at the ESC remotely to see how large the drop is under load and where it's cutting off. I suspect these Zee 80C batteries aren't very good at keeping the voltage up, though they give decent runtime in the Kraton.

 

[SrC]

You were very detailed, Hit the nail on the head of this issue.
If you push the issue getting tech support involved, and lucky to get the right supp. guy, They will accommodate with the 100amp esc that you want.
You have been using much Honey, but not catching any Bees.
Step it up a notch. Albeit very politely.
The Included Vorteks ESC is just Defective.
The manual's Troubleshooting section, as I stated above contradicts itself. That is your evidence. Replacing with the same part No.ESC is a waste of time. The F/W is identical. Where the defect/issue/Flaw is.
I always had luck with HH. Own Many of their products besides Arrma stuff. Once, I did have to push the issue. They upgraded to solve the issue. Cost me nothing. Even though I offered to pay the difference to solve the issue. Was an Axial servo issue out the box. After 3 stocker warranty replacements kept burning and smoking up, they sent me the next servo model up. Solved. ESC's cost much more than servo's. I would step it up a notch. Just me.
Best of luck.

 

[Mark83]

Just because your battery says it is 120c doesn't mean much especially from cheap brands. Your battery very well could have a true c rate of 10c and that would definitely explain your situation.

https://www.arrmaforum.com/threads/c-rates-what-is-the-deal.17174/

Let me find the thread from Rc talk but someone tested 3 different batteries from 3 different companies with their Spektrum esc and all 3 batteries cut off at different voltages.

First post of this thread.

"For example on "Auto - Low" my SMC 4S packs didnt cut out until they had hit 2.6-2.8v/c. My Hoovo 4S packs cut out around 3.6V/C and my Zee 4S packs cut out around 3.75V/C."

https://www.rctalk.com/forum/threads/spektrum-firma-160a-esc-lvc-setting-info.131455/

Thanks for posting. Everything is worth evaluating but the fact that I did a quite detailed analysis and concluded that the Vorteks ESC is using less than half of battery capacity is pretty convincing. On top of that I tried 2 different, new batteries. And adding to my anecdotal case are the numerous other people in this forum and others reporting the same issue.

Could my two 120C rated batteries actually be 10C? I think it very unlikely given how well they perform with the Vorteks. Could they be 70 or 80C? Absolutely, but not 10C or anywhere near it. But as I wrote anything is possible, it's just very unlikely.

 

[morrjr71]

The next level up of Firma ESCs, the 130A, has adjustable LVC and a few more settings. New in box they run about $143, but new from a parts breaker they run about $85 (link below). Not only will you get more adjustability, you will get an ESC that has more capacity, should you decide to upgrade your motor down the line.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/124671492816?epid=5046499739&hash=item1d070002d0:g:8dMAAOSwzFRgbhgY

Edit: you can set LVC down to as low as 2.8V with this, but that is not recommended. I generally use 3.4 volts for my LVC cutoff, but others here may recommend higher.

 

[Mark83]

The next level up of Firma ESCs, the 130A, has adjustable LVC and a few more settings. New in box they run about $143, but new from a parts breaker they run about $85 (link below). Not only will you get more adjustability, you will get an ESC that has more capacity, should you decide to upgrade your motor down the line.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/124671492816?epid=5046499739&hash=item1d070002d0:g:8dMAAOSwzFRgbhgY

Edit: you can set LVC down to as low as 2.8V with this, but that is not recommended. I generally use 3.4 volts for my LVC cutoff, but others here may recommend higher.

Great minds think alike! That is the one I ordered a few days ago. I'll report back how it goes after I do some testing. I also bought the little programming box for $30 because it seemed neat and also acts to check battery voltage in the field.

 

[morrjr71]

Great minds think alike! That is the one I ordered a few days ago. I'll report back how it goes after I do some testing. I also bought the little programming box for $30 because it seemed neat and also acts to check battery voltage in the field.

Both should work for you (I have both myself). You can download the ESC manual from the Spektrum web site if you want to get a head start on what settings you might want to use.

 

[slick2500]

Thanks for posting. Everything is worth evaluating but the fact that I did a quite detailed analysis and concluded that the Vorteks ESC is using less than half of battery capacity is pretty convincing. On top of that I tried 2 different, new batteries. And adding to my anecdotal case are the numerous other people in this forum and others reporting the same issue.

Could my two 120C rated batteries actually be 10C? I think it very unlikely given how well they perform with the Vorteks. Could they be 70 or 80C? Absolutely, but not 10C or anywhere near it. But as I wrote anything is possible, it's just very unlikely.

Still not 50c. That first thread I posted would have told you that. On average most batteries available on the market are only 20-30c. 50c is just barely possible.

 

[Mark83]

Still not 50c. That first thread I posted would have told you that. On average most batteries available on the market are only 20-30c. 50c is just barely possible.

Yes, that could still be the issue. I do have to keep an open mind. I have the new ESC so I'll report back with how it works.

 

[SrC]

Thanks for posting. Everything is worth evaluating but the fact that I did a quite detailed analysis and concluded that the Vorteks ESC is using less than half of battery capacity is pretty convincing. On top of that I tried 2 different, new batteries. And adding to my anecdotal case are the numerous other people in this forum and others reporting the same issue.

Could my two 120C rated batteries actually be 10C? I think it very unlikely given how well they perform with the Vorteks. Could they be 70 or 80C? Absolutely, but not 10C or anywhere near it. But as I wrote anything is possible, it's just very unlikely.

A Legit 35C if that were verifiable, would even work in that Vorteks. I don't think even remotely part of your issue. I can tell by how you evaluated all.
The ESC is the issue. You are not alone in this.

 

[slick2500]

Yes, that could still be the issue. I do have to keep an open mind. I have the new ESC so I'll report back with how it works.

Hopefully that fixes your issue.

 

[SrC]

Great minds think alike! That is the one I ordered a few days ago. I'll report back how it goes after I do some testing. I also bought the little programming box for $30 because it seemed neat and also acts to check battery voltage in the field.

Always need a programmer to dial in any ESC. The manual method is just lame. Always Need a cell checker also, Killed 2 birds with one stone.
ESC change out was the only answer. However you sliced it.
And a higher amp ESC will run more efficiently. Cooler.

 

[Mark83]

My next step was going to be to get the Spektrum bluetooth module in the spring and monitor the voltage at the ESC remotely to see how large the drop is under load and where it's cutting off. I suspect these Zee 80C batteries aren't very good at keeping the voltage up, though they give decent runtime in the Kraton.

I would think the punch level has some effect on hitting the LVC as well since high punch levels are going to create huge demands for electrons.

 

[Roger Wilco]

So the Vorteks LVC issue claims another victim. When I got my Vorteks it would only run around 20-30 seconds at full throttle before it went into VLC. My HRB 6000mAh 50c batteries and others I had couldn't handle it, but no such problem in my older 3s Typhon.

I did a LOT of investigation into this with lots of voltage and current draw measurements comparing the Vorteks electrics to my older Arrma 3s Typhon and took my findings to US Support. Short story is the rep said there's a new firmware available for the ESC that now includes the VLC setting, but I'd need the programming box to update it, so I reluctantly bought one. As you're all aware there isn't such a firmware version available, the rep was wrong so I'd spent $50 for nothing. So he then said that he'd send me a 130A Firma ESC for my trouble, which is great until he found out I was in Australia, so no support and obviously no new ESC. He did credit my HH account with $50 which I can't use anyway because of where I am.

In the end I bought a new battery, DFX 8000mAh 120C which lasts about 12 minutes in the Vorteks. So that's it and I don't think there will ever be an updated firmware to address this issue because HH don't care even though it'd be such an easy and virtually cost free fix. I doubt that I could ever bring myself to buy another new Arrma due to the woeful support on this issue.

 

[PatMarcus172]

So the Vorteks LVC issue claims another victim. When I got my Vorteks it would only run around 20-30 seconds at full throttle before it went into VLC. My HRB 6000mAh 50c batteries and others I had couldn't handle it, but no such problem in my older 3s Typhon.

I did a LOT of investigation into this with lots of voltage and current draw measurements comparing the Vorteks electrics to my older Arrma 3s Typhon and took my findings to US Support. Short story is the rep said there's a new firmware available for the ESC that now includes the VLC setting, but I'd need the programming box to update it, so I reluctantly bought one. As you're all aware there isn't such a firmware version available, the rep was wrong so I'd spent $50 for nothing. So he then said that he'd send me a 130A Firma ESC for my trouble, which is great until he found out I was in Australia, so no support and obviously no new ESC. He did credit my HH account with $50 which I can't use anyway because of where I am.

In the end I bought a new battery, DFX 8000mAh 120C which lasts about 12 minutes in the Vorteks. So that's it and I don't think there will ever be an updated firmware to address this issue because HH don't care even though it'd be such an easy and virtually cost free fix. I doubt that I could ever bring myself to buy another new Arrma due to the woeful support on this issue.

Good to see your name, again , Roger but as you say, it’s appalling that we still don’t have a proper resolution and the only answer is to spend more on a new esc and more on a smaller pinion.

 

[Roger Wilco]

the only answer is to spend more on a new esc and more on a smaller pinion.

Good to hear from you too Marcus.

I'm pretty much over it now that my Vorteks has the new battery, but I won't be forgetting or forgiving the poor support or false information from Arrma or HH. Since getting the new battery I've also gone back to the standard 18t pinion. I just love this thing going fast.

I haven't been able to get out to drive any of my cars yet this year as we've been having heatwaves with little relief here in Perth. In fact we've set a new record for the most consecutive days over 40C ever recorded here. Today was only 39. Anything under 40 is a bonus.

 

[slick2500]

Good to hear from you too Marcus.

I'm pretty much over it now that my Vorteks has the new battery, but I won't be forgetting or forgiving the poor support or false information from Arrma or HH. Since getting the new battery I've also gone back to the standard 18t pinion. I just love this thing going fast.

I haven't been able to get out to drive any of my cars yet this year as we've been having heatwaves with little relief here in Perth. In fact we've set a new record for the most consecutive days over 40C ever recorded here. Today was only 39. Anything under 40 is a bonus.

If it makes you feel any better, when I was younger one winter we broke the record for the most consecutive days with an average high temperature below 0*F, iirc the average high temp was -16*F for almost 2 weeks.

 

[Roger Wilco]

Ok slick, you win. I do feel a bit better now. Cheers for that.