Kraton Water-cooled XL Kraton

[jkflow]

Make sure to put some red dye into it, we want to see it bleed!

 

[ChemEng]

That is good to know.
I believe the real source of the issue from the automotive side must not be the speed of water flow, but spinning the water pump too fast was creating cavitation....

heat transfer and fluid mechanics is kindof my jam (I am super fun at parties)...

Cavitation happens when the pressure inside the pump head is lower than the vapor pressure of the fluid. It usually happens if you have too much restriction on the inlet of the pump for the pump speed (NPSHr>NPSHa). The hotter the fluid gets, the more likely it is to happen too since hot fluid has a higher vapor pressure.

Use the pump to "push" the water through the system, not "pull" the water through the system and this is less likely to happen. So the OP should place the pump on the outlet of the reservoir (if he uses one).

Plumbing is done just have to put some gorilla glue on the lines where they go into the reservoirs and have my brother wire my fans and water pump to a connector for the 3s battery! I’m feeling a test run this weekend my dudes!! Hopefully I can make the damn body fit

make sure you get ALL the air out of the system, that pump will stall out if a slug of air gets sucked into it and you will have a heckuva time trying to re-prime it in the field. I would remove at least one of the reservoirs to make this easier.

 

[Arrmadog1990]

Make sure to put some red dye into it, we want to see it bleed!

I was gonna do blue dye !! But red is cool too! Either way I’ll definitely be dying the water 100%!!

heat transfer and fluid mechanics is kindof my jam (I am super fun at parties)...

Cavitation happens when the pressure inside the pump head is lower than the vapor pressure of the fluid. It usually happens if you have too much restriction on the inlet of the pump for the pump speed (NPSHr>NPSHa). The hotter the fluid gets, the more likely it is to happen too since hot fluid has a higher vapor pressure.

Use the pump to "push" the water through the system, not "pull" the water through the system and this is less likely to happen. So the OP should place the pump on the outlet of the reservoir (if he uses one).


make sure you get ALL the air out of the system, that pump will stall out if a slug of air gets sucked into it and you will have a heckuva time trying to re-prime it in the field. I would remove at least one of the reservoirs to make this easier.

I can tilt the truck straight up and fill them to the brim and then cap them and should be able to get all the air out like that, at least I think so but we will see!

 

[Arrmadog1990]

heat transfer and fluid mechanics is kindof my jam (I am super fun at parties)...

Cavitation happens when the pressure inside the pump head is lower than the vapor pressure of the fluid. It usually happens if you have too much restriction on the inlet of the pump for the pump speed (NPSHr>NPSHa). The hotter the fluid gets, the more likely it is to happen too since hot fluid has a higher vapor pressure.

Use the pump to "push" the water through the system, not "pull" the water through the system and this is less likely to happen. So the OP should place the pump on the outlet of the reservoir (if he uses one).


make sure you get ALL the air out of the system, that pump will stall out if a slug of air gets sucked into it and you will have a heckuva time trying to re-prime it in the field. I would remove at least one of the reservoirs to make this easier.

Good info on the cavitation! I am using the pump to push the water through the system with the way it’s setup now. I’m using the pump to pressurize the one reservoir which has the feed lines for the system hooked up to it then the return from the radiator returns back to the other reservoir which is the one that the pump inlet is hooked to I’m thinking this is gonna work well hopefully it hold up to my expectations !

 

[ChemEng]

This is really a cool project. I am excited to see how it works out.

How do those waterblocks work? Does the water actually come into contact with the motor can?

 

[Arrmadog1990]

Ye

This is really a cool project. I am excited to see how it works out.

How do those waterblocks work? Does the water actually come into contact with the motor can?

Me too!! Glad you guys are just as intrigued as I am! Yessir water will be physically flowing around and touching the motor can!

 

[ChemEng]

Ye

Me too!! Glad you guys are just as intrigued as I am! Yessir water will be physically flowing around and touching the motor can!

I'm a little concerned that the pump might not provide enough flow with only 300cm head.

Once you get everything plummed and primed, disconnect the return line from the reservoir and run the pump so it "pours" into the reservoir so you can visualize the flow rate.

 

[Arrmadog1990]

I'm a little concerned that the pump might not provide enough flow with only 300cm head.

Once you get everything plummed and primed, disconnect the return line from the reservoir and run the pump so it "pours" into the reservoir so you can visualize the flow rate.

I definitely planned on doing that any idea how much is good ? Definitely don’t want it trickling out I know that but probably don’t want lots of pressure either ? So maybe something in between ? Like you said kinda just pouring out ?

 

[ChemEng]

Unless it is squirting out through the orings on the motor can or blowing the tubing off the hose barbs then you can't have too much pressure.

Too little flow is another story... You could take the scientific route. measure the flow rate with a measuring cup and a stopwatch. Get the max amperage and efficiency from the motor manufacturer to determine the max heat generation and then calculate the temperature rise in the water based on the flow rate assuming it absorbs 100% of that heat generated. You could use the stated heat transfer capacity of the radiator assuming ambient air temps to get a full mathematical model of the cooling loop.

To determine Reynolds number (to ensure turbulent flow) you would need to take some detailed dimensional measurements of the water block and plug them into some relatively straight forward equations (Wikipedia has a decent explanation actually).

Or... you could just look at it and say eh, looks like enough.

 

[Arrmadog1990]

Unless it is squirting out through the orings on the motor can or blowing the tubing off the hose barbs then you can't have too much pressure.

Too little flow is another story... You could take the scientific route. measure the flow rate with a measuring cup and a stopwatch. Get the max amperage and efficiency from the motor manufacturer to determine the max heat generation and then calculate the temperature rise in the water based on the flow rate assuming it absorbs 100% of that heat generated. You could use the stated heat transfer capacity of the radiator assuming ambient air temps to get a full mathematical model of the cooling loop.

To determine Reynolds number (to ensure turbulent flow) you would need to take some detailed dimensional measurements of the water block and plug them into some relatively straight forward equations (Wikipedia has a decent explanation actually).

Or... you could just look at it and say eh, looks like enough.

Lol I’m definitely gonna look at the return and say yay or nay definitely gonna measure the temp drop across the radiator as well I can always add another pump or a bigger pump down the road gotta she what this one does like you said !

 

[StephenSchandelmayer]

Unless it is squirting out through the orings on the motor can or blowing the tubing off the hose barbs then you can't have too much pressure.

Too little flow is another story... You could take the scientific route. measure the flow rate with a measuring cup and a stopwatch. Get the max amperage and efficiency from the motor manufacturer to determine the max heat generation and then calculate the temperature rise in the water based on the flow rate assuming it absorbs 100% of that heat generated. You could use the stated heat transfer capacity of the radiator assuming ambient air temps to get a full mathematical model of the cooling loop.

To determine Reynolds number (to ensure turbulent flow) you would need to take some detailed dimensional measurements of the water block and plug them into some relatively straight forward equations (Wikipedia has a decent explanation actually).

Or... you could just look at it and say eh, looks like enough.

Oh man that made me laugh pretty good. I was like holy crap that is a deep explanation but obviously you know your stuff

 

[Arrmadog1990]

Here’s a link the the first fire of the cooling system! I put food coloring in the pressurized reservoir so I could see how fast it made it through the system and I’m pleased to say it looks like we got some pretty decent flow my dudes! Got a leak at the reservoir to fix and it looked like one of the jackets or lines going to the jackets was leaking as well but hey I’m pretty happy so far got hella air moving and good circulation on the water!!

 

[ChemEng]

Here’s a link the the first fire of the cooling system! I put food coloring in the pressurized reservoir so I could see how fast it made it through the system and I’m pleased to say it looks like we got some pretty decent flow my dudes! Got a leak at the reservoir to fix and it looked like one of the jackets or lines going to the jackets was leaking as well but hey I’m pretty happy so far got hella air moving and good circulation on the water!!

Wow that actually looks like a decent flow rate.

Now go get a big pinion and find some thick grass to run it through so we can see what happens to all that heat in the motor!

I would recommend removing the "pressurized reservoir" and replacing it with a wye right before the motor water block. You would save a bunch of weight and reduce leak points.

 

[Arrmadog1990]

Wow that actually looks like a decent flow rate.

Now go get a big pinion and find some thick grass to run it through so we can see what happens to all that heat in the motor!

Yessir!! Thank you sir!! I have a 18 tooth on there now and it’s a 2080 kv tp motor so that should be enough stress to start with and see how she cools I would think? Gotta fix a leak at the reservoir and looked like maybe one of the jackets or lines to the jackets was leaking but all in all I’m liking it! (Glad you like my flow rate too haha)

 

[ChemEng]

Yeah, get rid of that pressurized reservoir (I am assuming that is where you are seeing leaks...) you don't need it.

 

[Arrmadog1990]

Yeah, get rid of that pressurized reservoir (I am assuming that is where you are seeing leaks...) you don't need it.

It is but I’m fairly certain it’s because I had the pump attached already and couldn’t get sufficient gorilla glue around the lines but ya it’s starting to look like I probably don’t need it lol I’ll see what’s up maybe try to find a spiller and just run the pressure line from the pump right to the feed lines for the jackets

 

[Arrmadog1990]

GENTLEMEN!! The first set of results are in! I deleted the pressurized reservoir and hooked the pump up straight to the water jackets. Just ran the truck pretty hard for 15 minutes (because my battery died since it’s been sitting for a few days) stopped the truck a couple times only long enough to touch motor and esc and both the esc and motor were barely even warm!! Finished the run cause the battery died (about 15 minutes) unplugged the cooling system and hit it with a temp gun and the esc was 104 degrees!! The motor was less than that wasn’t even worth trying to hit the motor with the temp gun cause it wasn’t even warm!! I’m beyond impressed this far. It was on asphalt but with those temp readings off-road shouldn’t be an issue at all going to look into some threaded fittings for the reservoir and possibly a metal reservoir of some sort. But DAMN this worked insanely well thus far. Beyond pleased no leaks either. Like I said need to beef up the reservoir and get some threaded fittings for it and then we should be good for some bashing!! (6s battery is under the 3s on top)

 

[SrC]

Unless it is squirting out through the orings on the motor can or blowing the tubing off the hose barbs then you can't have too much pressure.

Too little flow is another story... You could take the scientific route. measure the flow rate with a measuring cup and a stopwatch. Get the max amperage and efficiency from the motor manufacturer to determine the max heat generation and then calculate the temperature rise in the water based on the flow rate assuming it absorbs 100% of that heat generated. You could use the stated heat transfer capacity of the radiator assuming ambient air temps to get a full mathematical model of the cooling loop.

To determine Reynolds number (to ensure turbulent flow) you would need to take some detailed dimensional measurements of the water block and plug them into some relatively straight forward equations (Wikipedia has a decent explanation actually).

Or... you could just look at it and say eh, looks like enough.

^^^ True dat.

 

[jkflow]

Looks promising, next time please post ambient temps as well.

 

[Arrmadog1990]

Ambient was 80 degrees according to the temp gun and my Ford F-250. Did as many high speed passes that can be done in 15 minutes out front of my house on the asphalt motor barely got warm idk if you could even call it warm we even touched the shaft that sticks out of the back of the tp motor and it wasn’t even warm lol shits wild esc was 104 degrees with temp gun and we shut the cooling system off after the run and before we hit it with the temp gun. Im gonna get a full battery charge and go to our off-road spot and see what the temps are and if they are around what they were tonight im probably going to completely do away with the reservoir like someone previously stated saying I don’t need it. Durability is the only test left in my mind. Mission accomplished as far as cooling goes. keeping the motor running efficiently at low temps keeps it from drawing a bunch of amps from the esc which in turn makes the esc run cooler and that was proven tonight without a shadow of a doubt. The high speed fan on the esc is definitely doing some work too but my brother has the same fans one on his tp motor which is a 1800kv I think and one on his esc and a 23 tooth pinion with a little smaller tires and he can hit thermal cutout pretty easily if he’s running it hard mine was no where near thermal cutout I’m absolutely floored on how well this is working so far. I knew it would work but this is far better than I thought.
Oh and I have a 18 tooth pinion right now. Figured that would be a good test haha but ya I seems that I was wrong and she can easily handle a bigger pinion