Kraton Why do people swap out motors?

[ibocain23]

I am looking for things to do over winter and yeah tbh I don’t want more power as I feel like the stock spektrum motor and ESC are good enough. But I’ve noticed many people that run hobbywing or castle motors don’t run fans with them. Is that because they’re more efficient?

 

[#ARRMArcfanboy4life]

Geared lower maybe.

 

[Twitchfast]

All depends on gearing and how you run your car, also I got the impression spektrum was rebranded hobbywing with firmware tweaks anyway.
I don't bother running fans on either my stretched Typhon nor my DBXL-E 2.0, Typhon runs an XLX2 + 2028 1100kV motor, DBXL-E is running an MGM 400A + 2028 800kV on 12S.
Neither seems to get hot enough for me to worry about it at least, and they're not geared very conservatively either.

I'm something of a castle fan, but it has to be said, my brother was running the hobbywing equivalent to a Castle 1515 motor with a Max8(?) and that thing ran 70mph all day while running cold, always impressed me.

 

[Notorious J]

I am looking for things to do over winter and yeah tbh I don’t want more power as I feel like the stock spektrum motor and ESC are good enough. But I’ve noticed many people that run hobbywing or castle motors don’t run fans with them. Is that because they’re more efficient?

One thing people do is lower the kv of the motor to get more torque and increase efficiency. By dropping down to say a 1730kv from a 2050, you'll lose a little on the top end but get much better bottom end torque. This also allows you to up the pinion count with less detrimental gains in heat. Having a bigger esc helps too. A Max 6 160 amp esc stays cooler than the 150 amp stock ones. This amounts to longer run times without having thermal cutoff issues. If you stick to stock, the extra fans on the motors and more powerful ones on the esc will also help to keep heat down, but you need a lot of cooling to make it work the same way as the lower kv motor and the bigger esc. I'm sure others will chime in to give more excellent advice on the topic.

 

[morrjr71]

I’m running heavy belted tires, and the stock motor got hot quickly. I increased the size of the motor in my Typhon 3s to a 3670 and lowered the kv to 2850 for more torque and lower temps. The new motor barely gets warm.

 

[parcou]

One thing people do is lower the kv of the motor to get more torque and increase efficiency. By dropping down to say a 1730kv from a 2050, you'll lose a little on the top end but get much better bottom end torque. This also allows you to up the pinion count with less detrimental gains in heat. Having a bigger esc helps too. A Max 6 160 amp esc stays cooler than the 150 amp stock ones. This amounts to longer run times without having thermal cutoff issues. If you stick to stock, the extra fans on the motors and more powerful ones on the esc will also help to keep heat down, but you need a lot of cooling to make it work the same way as the lower kv motor and the bigger esc. I'm sure others will chime in to give more excellent advice on the topic.

Question. Could that theory with lower temps help any with an Infraction. Infraction v1 stock 2050 motor (gets hot) with a Max6 or Firma 160 (vs stock Firma 150) help in coolness and bit more run time?

 

[pug]

MORE POWER!!!

 

[Notorious J]

Question. Could that theory with lower temps help any with an Infraction. Infraction v1 stock 2050 motor (gets hot) with a Max6 or Firma 160 (vs stock Firma 150) help in coolness and bit more run time?

I don't think the esc change will be enough to compensate. The 2050 will continue to draw high amps, possibly even a little higher than with the stock esc, but the nominal heat between the two will be slightly lower. What I'm saying is that you might be able to run the 2050 a little harder than before, but have to shorten the time frame so as not to destroy the motor. My Typhon 6s is a good example of this. I ran a stock 2050 with a Castle MMX 8S esc and was able to achieve a higher top speed with that motor than I had ever done before. But repeated runs melted the solder inside the can even though the esc never cut out because it never reached it's thermal cutoff. If I had just been bashing around and not running into the higher amps that I was drawing at the top end of the speed chart, I'm sure this combo would have been good. This is a tricky equation to get perfect

 

[jkflow]

Change in ESC will do nothing to lower motor temps. Many change in order to run 8S which makes it worse from a heat standpoint.

Motor change is mainly to lower the temps, as stated above. Some change out of ignorance as well and just read that it's 'better'.
I have to run fans no matter the kV rating, ambient is just too hot or my driving style is not 'adequate'.
I could gear down as well but that takes out a lot of fun.

Lower kV is generally better regardless, both less heat and most of the bashing is acceleration and not necessarily top speed.

 

[jondilly1974]

Change in ESC will do nothing to lower motor temps. Many change in order to run 8S which makes it worse from a heat standpoint.

Motor change is mainly to lower the temps, as stated above. Some change out of ignorance as well and just read that it's 'better'.
I have to run fans no matter the kV rating, ambient is just too hot or my driving style is not 'adequate'.
I could gear down as well but that takes out a lot of fun.

Lower kV is generally better regardless, both less heat and most of the bashing is acceleration and not necessarily top speed.

Not 100% true as Castle ESCs with CryoDrive do run motors cooler.

To the OP, I swap motors because I burn them up

 

[jkflow]

Not 100% true as Castle ESCs with CryoDrive do run motors cooler.

To the OP, I swap motors because I burn them up

Cryodrive is preventing heat inside the ESC but will do nothing to motor temps, at least that is what I understand it to be, but I don't have one.
That is what they are advertising though

 

[3d-rc.myshopify.com]

I always over power everything by a lot because I like speed and hate running fans. I run a 5687 in my k6 and it's geared for over 70 and never breaks a sweat

 

[SrC]

One thing people do is lower the kv of the motor to get more torque and increase efficiency. By dropping down to say a 1730kv from a 2050, you'll lose a little on the top end but get much better bottom end torque. This also allows you to up the pinion count with less detrimental gains in heat. Having a bigger esc helps too. A Max 6 160 amp esc stays cooler than the 150 amp stock ones. This amounts to longer run times without having thermal cutoff issues. If you stick to stock, the extra fans on the motors and more powerful ones on the esc will also help to keep heat down, but you need a lot of cooling to make it work the same way as the lower kv motor and the bigger esc. I'm sure others will chime in to give more excellent advice on the topic.

^^^ Pretty much sums it up best.

 

[ibocain23]

Appreciate all the great feedback everyone. Learned a lot. And definitely want to upgrade my motor and ESC over winter on my K6S. General bashing with high speed runs and jumps what would an all around good set up that won’t need fans (may still use a fan to be safe)?

 

[Notorious J]

Appreciate all the great feedback everyone. Learned a lot. And definitely want to upgrade my motor and ESC over winter on my K6S. General bashing with high speed runs and jumps what would an all around good set up that won’t need fans (may still use a fan to be safe)?

Hobbywing Max 6 / 1650kv has always been a fan favorite, but there's also a lot of great offerings from Castle too.

 

[LibertyMKiii]

Cryodrive is preventing heat inside the ESC but will do nothing to motor temps, at least that is what I understand it to be, but I don't have one.
That is what they are advertising though

If you run the old XLX or MM2 and then run the MMX8s or XLX2 (which have the cryo drive) you will see the motor operates at a cooler temp.
It may be only 5-10 degrees but there is a noticeable difference.

 

[#ARRMArcfanboy4life]

the max6 4092 1730kv is the way to go.

 

[slick2500]

The same reason people do LS swaps.

 

[jondilly1974]

The same reason people do LS swaps.

Unless they LT6 swap

 

[Rottster]

I swapped out my motor and esc because every time I broke my Big Rock, I upgraded the part I broke. Now I have a 10.2 lb 6s capable BR. Obviously if I just found a bigger space and honed my driving skills, replaced the parts I broke with factory parts the factory motor and ESC would've been just fine and way more than plenty fast BUT, it still would've run hot in the grass. BUT, upgrading the motor and ESC (Castle 1515 2200kv and Mamba Monster X) has given me multiple advantages and I'll break them down below.

1: More power!!! Oh man, it's absurd, even in a ten pound car on 3S (9000 mAh 120C) battery.
2: Way lower running temperatures. In the limited testing I've done so far in the yard and on the the street, the motor and ESC barely bumped over ambient running a 21 tooth pinion and Hoons. Granted that's still geared way mechanically low, numerically high but I've got a set of pinions up to 26t and I can always just drop a 4s battery in.
3: Running a sensored motor is a joy, easy smooth starts with no cogging.
4: The Mamba Monster X is crazy programable and has amazing data logging capabilities. Plus, I can bump up the BEC voltage for my 35kg steering servo and the BEC is rated @ 8 amps. Seriously, what this ESC can do is mind boggling.
5: Just by a gearing, suspension and tire change I can crawl, bash or speed run.
6: Efficiency, by using the Smart Sense setting, it runs at low rpm sensored and then switches to sensorless as rpm's climb, dropping motor temps and power consumption.
7: I'm a hot rodder at heart. I have a 72 Duster in process of a motor swap and a Jeep YJ getting a LS LM7 swap. Better to have the power and not need it than need it and not have it.
8: Having the big motor in the BR may seem like it might add more cantilevered force on the modular Arrma motor mount and case, but really the fat can actually about rests on the chassis. Just for grins I whipped out my feeler gauges and I have only .013" clearance between the rear of the motor and the chassis and yes, I have upgraded to the M2C motor mount for obvious reasons.

So in summary, is it expensive? Yes, but cheaper than buying 3 different RC cars. Does it do everything as well as a dedicated crawler or speed runner? No way. Is it satisfying that I've made something almost entirely unique that I can make better every run? Absofkng lutely. Also, if and when I do run into cooling issues on the motor, Castle just came out with this for the 1515 motors..... The Blower..... Now I have to have one just for the "Cool Factor".

Unless they LT6 swap

Unless someone crashes a 'Vette into my house I'll never see one of those.
Officer: "Is he dead?"
Me: "Not sure yet, but I used my plasma cutter and got 'em out, he's on the engine stand now".
Officer: "I mean the driver"
Me: "Uh, maybe"