Kraton Why the obsession with 4s?

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Kraton Why the obsession with 4s?

morrjr71

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I know I’m going to get a lot of flack for this, but I’m going to post it anyway.

Forgive me, but I don’t understand the big deal about 4s. Why would you expect Arrma to make a 4s when they have a 6s that can be run on 4s? It makes no economic sense to redesign a 3s or 6s to run 4s. Why would a manufacturer upgrade 3s parts or downgrade 6s parts for a small market that wants 4s? The 6s is stronger than the 3s, so there’s no need to put a 4s chassis in between. I can see it now: the 4s folks will want to upgrade to 6s parts. If you think having 4s parts will reduce the cost, you are sadly mistaken. It could actually increase the cost. I run my Kraton 6s on 4s, and I’m fine with that.
 

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I think it's mainly because the Arrma 4S line has always been perceived as being the weakest line offered by Arrma. It was basically 3S chassis with more weight attached to it and more power to move it around fast. Unsurprisingly, they were quite unreliable.

My understanding is that Arrma afficionados are eager to see what Arrma could do for the 4S line if they tried to do it right.
 

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Power to weight ratio and with a few fixes durable as hell... and power to weight ratio.


This..☝️.. I can say first hand, there is nothing like a 4s outcast in power to weight.. alot of people hated them, but if you get that slipper just right, and didn't have a crazy c rating battery, they stayed together...honestly there is nothing more snappy in the air in arrma's line up and I have pretty much all of them....

Quadruple backflips with ease, front flips for days, standing backflips effortlessly..

i beat the absolute snots out of mine since day one, with large sends, definitely broke some chassis's, towers and turnbuckles, but I'll tell ya, those axles didn't pop for more than year, and probably around 80 packs... They were so used when they did that the u joint bores we're oblong beyond double the size..

anyway, I'm an advocate for it no doubt.. all they really had to do was upgrade the axles, turnbuckles, and toss the metal diffs in and I think it would be plenty stout.. 👍
 

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I like 4S trucks, Traxxas has one, Team Corally is about to drop one, time for Arrma to respond. I realize if it has everything that people wish for, it may be too close pricewise to the 6S rigs. I think this may be a reason we have not seen a V2 yet.
 

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My outcast 4s would run unrealistically long run times sometimes i would get over a half hour on one battery and i mashed the throttle on that thing. i liked it and parts were cheap for it but it just wasnt reliable and i don't think it will ever be the same if the price goes through the roof like the rest of the rcs.
 

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OK, I think I see your point: you want a 1/10 scale vehicle that's as fast as a 1/8 scale vehicle. And you expect to run it in a smaller area. If so, you have to look at it from the point of the manufacturer. It not only costs money to design 1/10 scale parts that hold up to 4s forces, you have to stock those parts as well. And that costs money for both. Manufacturers make what they think will sell the most, and they tend to ignore the smaller segments. Look what happened to the 1:1 auto market: sedans didn't sell as much as SUVs, so several manufacturers stopped making sedans. There is still a market for sedans, but that market is much smaller, and for several car companies it's not worth keeping sedans in the lineup. The same goes for RC vehicles: what doesn't sell the most will be discontinued. You can't expect Arrma to cater to the small 4s segment when they have a huge 6s market.
 

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And I see you have a pic of a Typhon 3s as your avatar....you should try this thing.

View attachment 192579 View attachment 192580
I'm doing this! 😍
OK, I think I see your point: you want a 1/10 scale vehicle that's as fast as a 1/8 scale vehicle. And you expect to run it in a smaller area. If so, you have to look at it from the point of the manufacturer. It not only costs money to design 1/10 scale parts that hold up to 4s forces, you have to stock those parts as well. And that costs money for both. Manufacturers make what they think will sell the most, and they tend to ignore the smaller segments. Look what happened to the 1:1 auto market: sedans didn't sell as much as SUVs, so several manufacturers stopped making sedans. There is still a market for sedans, but that market is much smaller, and for several car companies it's not worth keeping sedans in the lineup. The same goes for RC vehicles: what doesn't sell the most will be discontinued. You can't expect Arrma to cater to the small 4s segment when they have a huge 6s market.
That's only in the good Ole scrUS, I loved my sedans, the Asian market is capturing a large share of the USDM car sales now. Large vehicle segment does t really thrive in Europe and Asia.
They dumped the 4s line because they need to keep profit margins up selling the other lines. Based on what a I've been gathering through folks personal experiences, the 4s was a product line killer and that's why they dumped it. It's the best of the 3s and 6s for a reasonable price. Granted folks found weaknesses pretty quick, but then again what line doesn't have its issues...
 
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You can't expect Arrma to cater to the small 4s segment when they have a huge 6s market.
Expect and hope are two different things though. I've never owned a factory 4s, but I've always wanted an outcast 4s, because I like the design and I just prefer 1/10 scale stuff...thats what 90% of my fleet is, and almost all of my non-Arrma stuff is 1/10 or smaller. So, I'd like for them to become available again, because I'd pick one up. I've got enough large-scale 6s stuff for my liking. But, that's what I hope happens...I don't really expect it too.
 

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OK, I think I see your point: you want a 1/10 scale vehicle that's as fast as a 1/8 scale vehicle. And you expect to run it in a smaller area. If so, you have to look at it from the point of the manufacturer. It not only costs money to design 1/10 scale parts that hold up to 4s forces, you have to stock those parts as well. And that costs money for both. Manufacturers make what they think will sell the most, and they tend to ignore the smaller segments. Look what happened to the 1:1 auto market: sedans didn't sell as much as SUVs, so several manufacturers stopped making sedans. There is still a market for sedans, but that market is much smaller, and for several car companies it's not worth keeping sedans in the lineup. The same goes for RC vehicles: what doesn't sell the most will be discontinued. You can't expect Arrma to cater to the small 4s segment when they have a huge 6s market.


That's where arrma had it made.. just like with everything else they make the parts are interchangeable.. they didn't have to retool anything, it already existed in the 3s line.. A outcast 4s is essentially a granite with longer arms..

The 3s cars went through diffs the same amount if not more in some cases.. The 3s line remained, while the 4s was discontinued for really no good reason..
 

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I know I’m going to get a lot of flack for this, but I’m going to post it anyway.

Forgive me, but I don’t understand the big deal about 4s. Why would you expect Arrma to make a 4s when they have a 6s that can be run on 4s? It makes no economic sense to redesign a 3s or 6s to run 4s. Why would a manufacturer upgrade 3s parts or downgrade 6s parts for a small market that wants 4s? The 6s is stronger than the 3s, so there’s no need to put a 4s chassis in between. I can see it now: the 4s folks will want to upgrade to 6s parts. If you think having 4s parts will reduce the cost, you are sadly mistaken. It could actually increase the cost. I run my Kraton 6s on 4s, and I’m fine with that.

Arrma makes a 4S line because they need something in-between the low-end 4x4 line ($370) and the high end 6S line ($600). Obviously there are different market price levels for how much people want to spend. Same reason why there is a $100 Voltage line and a $270 4x4 line. If someone wants something faster and bigger than a 3S, but don't want to spend $600 and you don't offer a 4S, then they're going to to a different brand and buy something else not Arrma.

Why pay $600+ for a car if you're never going to run 6S on it? A properly made 4S car for $470-500 makes a lot of sense. If you know how to drive properly, a 4S car should hold up fine (Tekno MT410, Maxx, etc.) with no reason to spend another $100.
The 3s cars went through diffs the same amount if not more in some cases.. The 3s line remained, while the 4s was discontinued for really no good reason..

It was discontinued because Arrma thought their manufacturing partners would be able to make the cars in early 2021, so there was no reason to make another run in late 2020 when they sold out. They were wrong, same way every company was wrong about forecasting supply and demand.
You can't expect Arrma to cater to the small 4s segment when they have a huge 6s market.

The 4S segment is huge. My Maxx videos do extremely well, and my Maxx vs. Kraton 4S video is one of the most popular of all time. Arrma probably didn't sell a lot of 4S cars (probably because people thought they kinda sucked and I probably contributed to that), but that doesn't mean the market isn't big. It means they needed to come out with a better product.
I like 4S trucks, Traxxas has one, Team Corally is about to drop one, time for Arrma to respond. I realize if it has everything that people wish for, it may be too close pricewise to the 6S rigs. I think this may be a reason we have not seen a V2 yet.

They just needed to wait until they could sell their 6S cars for $600 so that when they sold their 4S cars for $500 nobody would complain. 🤣
 
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morrjr71

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Arrma makes a 4S line because they need something in-between the low-end 4x4 line ($370) and the high end 6S line ($600). Obviously there are different market price levels for how much people want to spend. Same reason why there is a $100 Voltage line and a $270 4x4 line. If someone wants something faster and bigger than a 3S, but don't want to spend $600 and you don't offer a 4S, then they're going to to a different brand and buy something else not Arrma.

Why pay $600+ for a car if you're never going to run 6S on it? A properly made 4S car for $470-500 makes a lot of sense. If you know how to drive properly, a 4S car should hold up fine (Tekno MT410, Maxx, etc.) with no reason to spend another $100.


It was discontinued because Arrma thought their manufacturing partners would be able to make the cars in early 2021, so there was no reason to make another run in late 2020 when they sold out. They were wrong, same way every company was wrong about forecasting supply and demand.


The 4S segment is huge. My Maxx videos do extremely well, and my Maxx vs. Kraton 4S video is one of the most popular of all time. Arrma probably didn't sell a lot of 4S cars (probably because people thought they kinda sucked and I probably contributed to that), but that doesn't mean the market isn't big. It means they needed to come out with a better product.


They just needed to wait until they could sell their 6S cars for $600 so that when they sold their 4S cars for $500 nobody would complain. 🤣
Unfortunately, the RC manufacturers have determined that higher priced vehicles sell well and there's no need for a medium price point. The 2s and 3s market is aimed at the folks entering the hobby for the first time, and adding an additional $100 for a 4s vehicle might just be too much of a cost increase for those just entering the hobby. And the ones who buy a 3s and decide to continue in the hobby are not likely to spend another $470-500 to upgrade to 4s when for $100 more they can upgrade to 6s. That leaves little market share for 4s vehicles, and for manufacturers it's all about market share and what gets the best return on investment. While a 4s vehicle might make sense for you, a seasoned RC enthusiast, and others like you, it doesn't make sense for the manufacturers.
 

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Unfortunately, the RC manufacturers have determined that higher priced vehicles sell well and there's no need for a medium price point. The 2s and 3s market is aimed at the folks entering the hobby for the first time, and adding an additional $100 for a 4s vehicle might just be too much of a cost increase for those just entering the hobby. And the ones who buy a 3s and decide to continue in the hobby are not likely to spend another $470-500 to upgrade to 4s when for $100 more they can upgrade to 6s. That leaves little market share for 4s vehicles, and for manufacturers it's all about market share and what gets the best return on investment. While a 4s vehicle might make sense for you, a seasoned RC enthusiast, and others like you, it doesn't make sense for the manufacturers.
That's my point. I think they killed it to keep higher profits in the 6S line. I'm about to snag a K4s tomorrow that's in really nice shape for less than a new 1/10 Mega. I'm giddy with excitement. 😜
 

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I know I’m going to get a lot of flack for this, but I’m going to post it anyway.

Forgive me, but I don’t understand the big deal about 4s. Why would you expect Arrma to make a 4s when they have a 6s that can be run on 4s? It makes no economic sense to redesign a 3s or 6s to run 4s. Why would a manufacturer upgrade 3s parts or downgrade 6s parts for a small market that wants 4s? The 6s is stronger than the 3s, so there’s no need to put a 4s chassis in between. I can see it now: the 4s folks will want to upgrade to 6s parts. If you think having 4s parts will reduce the cost, you are sadly mistaken. It could actually increase the cost. I run my Kraton 6s on 4s, and I’m fine with that.
+1
I couldn't agree with you more. I stated the same elsewhere on AF. I run my 6s rigs on 4s many times.. I mix it up. Even on 3s a few times.I love 4s to be honest. Hard to explain. Driving is more controllable and precise for sure. My Typhon TLRT will only be run with 4s. 1/8 truggies and buggies were originally designed for only 4s running.
Example:
Why would you buy a Typhon 3s, when you can get a Typhon 6s (or even the TLRT roller) and run it on 3s or 4s as well as 6s.
It is future proof. No need to spend hundreds to bring a 3s 4x4 to 4s performance. What always ends up happening 99% of the time. One could have just started out with the Typhon 6s platform. Upgrades are numerous and in many cases less expensive than the 4x4 upgrades.
The 4x4 Power Module is the major flaw IMHO. Arrma won't change from it. Needing to spend big $$$ for the M2C motor mount and bracket. Almost 30%+ of the cost of a whole 4x4.
Yes some of it has to do with the power to weight ratio of a plastic chassis versus a true Alloy Buggy platform no doubt. I think guys rather upgrade to 4s gear, rather than work with 3s by changing out gears and motors. Spending more on ESC electrics, Lipos, etc to get the performance of a 6s rig. Then that plastic 4x4 chassis is loaded down with more weight than it was designed for.

For so many, the 4x4 Typhon for instance seems like the cheaper deal. Inititially it is. For a short while. But then that long road of upgrades are needed.
Many of the 6s upgrades are more optional and just bling for the most part. Whereas the 4x4 guys generally need the upgrades because of durability issues.. Wanting more power and all. A 4s 4x4 rig seems dead at this point. HH hasn't brought out its replacement yet. The 4s RTR's had durability issues out the box. Yet many will mod their 3s rigs to 4s specs to achieve the same short results.:unsure: Many have even stuffed 6s electrics in there. But we all RC differently, spend our money differently. Different wallets and all.
Just me.
 
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^^^ I agree with all of that, but I am not convinced Arrma will let Traxxas, Redcat, etc run away with all the sales of RC for people wanting 4S vehicles.

I think they should not bother releasing a revamped 4S line still based on the current 3S line like they did. However, releasing a new platform based on a plastic chassis, using a center diff + metal drivetrain and priced between the 3S and 6S line would make a lot of sense and would get a lot of people excited.
 
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