ZTW Beast Pro 220a ESC anyone run it?

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LibertyMKiii said:
Amperage values are certainly imaginary in car ESCs. I have seen some data in Castle Data logs that indicates their Amperage numbers are completely bogus. I don't believe people are seeing the sort of power they are lead to believe by those logs.

Example from an 8s setup I had. 8615 watts / 746 = 11.5 hp (if you believe the data)

View attachment 45325

For the LiPos output it certainly depends on the brand/model used. The Turnigy Graphene's have been tested (with good test equip.) up around the 300 amps range for short durations.

The speed run community has repeatedly found that Hobby wing and their RTR versions like the BLX 185 hit amperage cut off (programmed protection).
Castle Mamba series ESCs do this also, but at a higher amperage number than HW does.

If we have amperage unlocked ESCs then everyone would complain about ESC failures all the time, and the manufacturers would be swamped with warranty work.

-Liberty
Click to expand...
You can grab a MM2 that is unlocked and unlimited...

http://www.castlecreations.com/en/exclusive-offers/monster-v2-retro-1-24sw-sold-as-is-010-0108-98
 
LibertyMKiii said:
Castle does not post specs because one companies 180 amp is not the same as another.

-Liberty
Click to expand...


Yeah, I gathered that. I've seen 120A being banded around as the unofficial figure while my Blx185 is 150A iirc.
The MM2's bec can output the voltage I want for my new servo, which would be nice but even with this firmware... would it really be able to cope with 200A+ speed run draws?
Not that I'd need that max figure but I'd rather go up in amp headroom than down for reliabilities sake.
 
LibertyMKiii said:
This is true and applies to 98% of us. I firmly believe for bashing there is zero issues with using the BLX system. It is very capable and seems to take some serious punishment.
When someone is doing speed runs the aggressive gearing creates a larger amp draw, and the motor gets into a situation of pulling over 200 amps. The esc limitations are pretty well proven by many members on this forum. Right around the 100mph mark using the stock BLX 185 electronics we see power limitations. Keeping all else the same and swapping in a Castle MM2 or XLX esc the car instantly picks up another 5-15mph due to the amperage capabilities of the aftermarket ESC. Then comes bigger motors like TP Power to push the car further into the 120+ range.

-Liberty
Click to expand...
Blx is great for stock weight arrmas. Soon as weight is added (with heavier chassis, braces, bumpers...) to say the kraton it is not enough. Motor and esc run too hot and esc shuts off. The lighter rigs it's great. I'm running them in 3 cars but my kraton is just too heavy. I run the hobbywing 4985, max6 combo in that and can barely keep the rubber on the tires. It is the most violent basher I ever driven.
What attracted me to the ztw is its smallish size. It will fit in a variety of spaces and projects.
 
Ari33 said:
Yeah, I gathered that. I've seen 120A being banded around as the unofficial figure while my Blx185 is 150A iirc.
The MM2's bec can output the voltage I want for my new servo, which would be nice but even with this firmware... would it really be able to cope with 200A+ speed run draws?
Not that I'd need that max figure but I'd rather go up in amp headroom than down for reliabilities sake.
Click to expand...

This is a quote taken from a Castle rep who had posted in an older RC forum:
"
"Ok this answer is going to be a little bit technical and a little bit diplomatic, but I'll try to answer it as best I can.

We publish current ratings for our air ESCs but we never publish an official number for our surface ESC's because it's much harder to generate a meaningful number. This is because of the way the current spikes and settles under hard acceleration. On aircraft the throttle is usually much more consistent, so a continuous number makes more sense. Cars are typically hard on the throttle for a short burst and then hard on the brakes. You typically spend very little time at a constant speed or amp draw.

In our air ESC's our standard test uses a coupled pair of motors, one being driven by the ESC(in 5mph airflow), the other hooked up to a modified controller that provides a constant braking force onto the drive motor. These motors are spun up to 100% throttle and then a braking load is applied. The input current is measured with a calibrated current clamp and then once a desired current is found the setup is then run at a constant current for 5 minutes. If the ESC makes it the full 5 minutes, then it is cooled to room temperature and then tested again at a slightly higher constant current. If the ESC goes into thermal shutdown before the 5 minutes is up then it fails and we use a lower number for our rating.

We do this same test for our car controllers so we know how they compare to each other, but we don't publish these numbers because they are not a comparable number to what the rest of the market publishes. This is the main reason we don't publish these numbers. If we marketed it as what we call it internally, everyone would think we had a inferior product. We don't want to have to lie to our customers by publishing an inflated number to appear competitive. We have performed our standard test on some other brand ESCs to know how they compare and typically their numbers are pretty far off. We tested a 'Stock' ESC that was rated as a 60amp continuous, 280 amp peak; Our continuous number for it was something like 24 amps, and the ESC blew up when we hit it with a short burst of 120 amps.

What really matters is the number of MOSFETs that are used in the construction of the ESC. The more MOSFETs, the more power it can handle because of lower resistance and the more surface area to pull the heat from them. Like the Mamba Max Pro the Mamba X ESC has 18 MOSFETs, a Mamba Micro X has 6, a Sidewinder SV3 has 12, a Mamba Monster X has 30, and a Mamba XLX has 48. All 'Stock' spec ESC's that I have seen have 6 MOSFETs. Most 'Mod' spec ESC's have 12. We also use large copper bus bars on our boards to lower the resistance of the board, and potting the controller help by providing a thermal mass and in this ESC thermally linking the board to the aluminum case for better cooling. These help raise the current handling capabilities of the ESC. For example, the Mamba Monster 2 has 36 MOSFETS, but didn't have any bus bars on it, because of this the 30 MOSFET Monster X has the same current handling capability. If we followed the ratings that our competitors use, the Mamba X would probably be a 180-200 amp continuous controller, but we would never call it that.

I have seen this ESC paired with our 1512 1800kv and 2650kv sensored motors in a 1/8 scale buggy run complete packs to low voltage cutoff on a outdoor track on an 80 degree day. When pulled into the pits, the motor was warmer than the ESC. Running in a 1/8th scale buggy on 4s is an approved setup for this ESC. The Mamba X should be plenty capable of running pretty much any 1/10th scale setup(provided a good motor, gearing and voltage is selected). We like to think this is one of the few ESC's that you could using in your 1/8th scale buggy in the summer months and then swap it into your stadium truck or buggy for running indoors in the winter."

This is a video that references the odd differences in Amp ratings shown in the data logs:

From what I have seen in real world tests the MM2 outperforms the BLX 185 esc. It will help you break into the 105-120mph range. From there the XL-X is the only ESC I have seen in the 120-178mph range.

-Liberty
 
LibertyMKiii said:
This is a quote taken from a Castle rep who had posted in an older RC forum:
"
"Ok this answer is going to be a little bit technical and a little bit diplomatic, but I'll try to answer it as best I can.

We publish current ratings for our air ESCs but we never publish an official number for our surface ESC's because it's much harder to generate a meaningful number. This is because of the way the current spikes and settles under hard acceleration. On aircraft the throttle is usually much more consistent, so a continuous number makes more sense. Cars are typically hard on the throttle for a short burst and then hard on the brakes. You typically spend very little time at a constant speed or amp draw.

In our air ESC's our standard test uses a coupled pair of motors, one being driven by the ESC(in 5mph airflow), the other hooked up to a modified controller that provides a constant braking force onto the drive motor. These motors are spun up to 100% throttle and then a braking load is applied. The input current is measured with a calibrated current clamp and then once a desired current is found the setup is then run at a constant current for 5 minutes. If the ESC makes it the full 5 minutes, then it is cooled to room temperature and then tested again at a slightly higher constant current. If the ESC goes into thermal shutdown before the 5 minutes is up then it fails and we use a lower number for our rating.

We do this same test for our car controllers so we know how they compare to each other, but we don't publish these numbers because they are not a comparable number to what the rest of the market publishes. This is the main reason we don't publish these numbers. If we marketed it as what we call it internally, everyone would think we had a inferior product. We don't want to have to lie to our customers by publishing an inflated number to appear competitive. We have performed our standard test on some other brand ESCs to know how they compare and typically their numbers are pretty far off. We tested a 'Stock' ESC that was rated as a 60amp continuous, 280 amp peak; Our continuous number for it was something like 24 amps, and the ESC blew up when we hit it with a short burst of 120 amps.

What really matters is the number of MOSFETs that are used in the construction of the ESC. The more MOSFETs, the more power it can handle because of lower resistance and the more surface area to pull the heat from them. Like the Mamba Max Pro the Mamba X ESC has 18 MOSFETs, a Mamba Micro X has 6, a Sidewinder SV3 has 12, a Mamba Monster X has 30, and a Mamba XLX has 48. All 'Stock' spec ESC's that I have seen have 6 MOSFETs. Most 'Mod' spec ESC's have 12. We also use large copper bus bars on our boards to lower the resistance of the board, and potting the controller help by providing a thermal mass and in this ESC thermally linking the board to the aluminum case for better cooling. These help raise the current handling capabilities of the ESC. For example, the Mamba Monster 2 has 36 MOSFETS, but didn't have any bus bars on it, because of this the 30 MOSFET Monster X has the same current handling capability. If we followed the ratings that our competitors use, the Mamba X would probably be a 180-200 amp continuous controller, but we would never call it that.

I have seen this ESC paired with our 1512 1800kv and 2650kv sensored motors in a 1/8 scale buggy run complete packs to low voltage cutoff on a outdoor track on an 80 degree day. When pulled into the pits, the motor was warmer than the ESC. Running in a 1/8th scale buggy on 4s is an approved setup for this ESC. The Mamba X should be plenty capable of running pretty much any 1/10th scale setup(provided a good motor, gearing and voltage is selected). We like to think this is one of the few ESC's that you could using in your 1/8th scale buggy in the summer months and then swap it into your stadium truck or buggy for running indoors in the winter."

This is a video that references the odd differences in Amp ratings shown in the data logs:

From what I have seen in real world tests the MM2 outperforms the BLX 185 esc. It will help you break into the 105-120mph range. From there the XL-X is the only ESC I have seen in the 120-178mph range.

-Liberty
Click to expand...
I saw a guy on Facebook doing amp draw tests on the BLX185 and at max it would only pull a little under 90a.
 
Like my previously posted data log I
slick2500 said:
I saw a guy on Facebook doing amp draw tests on the BLX185 and at max it would only pull a little under 90a.
Click to expand...

This fits more inline with my suspicions that these controllers output around 1/2 of what they claim. There are several inline amp meters I have seen that work for RC batteries but I have yet to see one rated to measure over 180 amps.

45450
 
LibertyMKiii said:
Like my previously posted data log I


This fits more inline with my suspicions that these controllers output around 1/2 of what they claim. There are several inline amp meters I have seen that work for RC batteries but I have yet to see one rated to measure over 180 amps.

View attachment 45450
Click to expand...
I think that's the exact one he used too.

I also should have mentioned that he was using stock gearing though so I'm sure it would pull more amps with different gearing.
 
slick2500 said:
I think that's the exact one he used too.

I also should have mentioned that he was using stock gearing though so I'm sure it would pull more amps with different gearing.
Click to expand...
You almost need a rolling dyno to simulate a load and to be in control of the conditions, traction, speed, load etc if comparing multiple ESCs.
I had seen a guy test a 12s esc for a parasail go-kart thing at 210-220 amps with the meters that electricians use. These can handle significantly more power than the flow through design.
45462
 
BashingBrian said:
So for general bashing with a 4092 size can 1680kv in a heavily modded Kraton which Castle esc is the better option..??
Click to expand...
MMX has a long connector on the side for sensored motors. Myself and some others have experienced issues with that connector coming loose. Once that connector pops off the car goes dead. For that reason among others I don't think the MMX is a good choice.

For me the MM2 esc is the way to go unless you have extra space to fit an XL-X (most of us don't)

Possibly this ZTW Beast esc also.
 
Last edited:
I have a MM2, a Max8 and the BLX185. Out of the 3 I like the MM2 the best. If going with the MM2 I highly recommend the field link. My MM2 came with a coupon for a free one that you have to send in to Castle then they send you the card. I already had one so I never sent mine in.
 
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