Fury upgrades I've done

[Aflan]

@Skaxis :Thx man, just the walk-through I needed...

 

[Skaxis]

Atomik Ultra Shock follow-up

Two battery packs is all it took for the shocks to be void of oil. I put a call into Atomik and the customer service rep said a technician had to reply which is an email form submission process. I'll edit this post when I get their reply.

In the mean time I'm awaiting the delivery of the Integy MSR11 front shocks.

 

[ajdragon]

Hi

Worse comes to worse you could always put screws in those bleeder holes.

 

[yodazoo976]

The badlands are an awesome tire. your going to find you need more slip with those so you don't flip over backwards!

Also the stock fury wheels will accept any 2.2 3.0 sct tire.
The cone shaped design just lets the tire fold in more and is not desirable for performance.

I believe the mojave wheels are the unusual proprietary tire diameter.

 

[DBBD]

The badlands are an awesome tire. your going to find you need more slip with those so you don't flip over backwards!

Also the stock fury wheels will accept any 2.2 3.0 sct tire.
The cone shaped design just lets the tire fold in more and is not desirable for performance.

I believe the mojave wheels are the unusual proprietary tire diameter.

Thanks for the clarification. It appears I was misunderstanding the problem.

 

[Skaxis]

Front Shocks part doux

The Integy MSR11 78mm shocks arrived tonight. I thought that I'd install them straight away because the Atomik Ultras were spent after 2 battery packs. This is what I found under the right-front tire:

Look at how wet the lower suspension arm is:

Here's the problem:

Just as I suspected. The diaphragm is pinched, torn and all the oil is shooting past. Of course it then simply erupts out the top of the shock cap with it's handy dandy weep hole. I don't think the weep hole is the issue. I think it's just crappy diaphragms. I was curious what the left-front shock would look like, so I removed it and under the cap I found:

While the diaphragm was undamaged, it was sideways in the shock. Obviously this is completely worthless. My support ticket at Atomik has yet gone unanswered but I will be calling them back tomorrow. I don't think replacement diaphragms will solve this issue. I am certain it's simply a horrible design, flawed manufacturing, or both. I must say, the "collar" portion is as soft as the dome portion. Every other diaphragm I've ever seen has a collar portion which is considerably stiffer than the dome.

I've ordered up some replacement ball connectors for the shocks. I don't want to have to rig up the Integy to fit. Once they arrive I'll install the new MSR11s in the front and give it a few runs and report back on how they work.

Verdict on Atomik Ultra alloy shock:

Overall a decent shock. It looks fantastic! Sadly a flawed diaphragm design and/or poor construction causes the shocks to bleed out all their oil in one or two battery packs. I can not recommend these shocks to anyone. Stock are better.

 

[Skaxis]

Atomik R/C support reply:

"Hello, the hole on the shock cap is intended to allow shock oil to escape if over filled. Are you saying that ALL of the oil has escaped, or just the over filled amount?"

I sent them pics of the twisted and damaged diaphragms with a detailed explanation of what I think is happening. Let's see how they reply.

 

[Walter]

Just out of curiosity... did you put the diaphragm on the shock body and then screw on the cap or did you put the diaphragm in the cap itself before you screwed it on? If you put it on the body the diaphragm can catch on the cap threads and get twisted which can mess up the seal. But if you do it the other way it's also possible that if you put the diaphragm in the cap but overtighten it that the diaphragm can deform. I prefer to put it in the cap and just go slow so I get out as much air as possible from below the diaphragm.

The answer from support doesn't seem right to me. With threaded holes and screws to plug them it makes sense to have it as an oil release hole. With the cap like you describe I would think it is to allow the air above the diaphragm to move freely in and out of the cap as the shock is compressing and expanding. I'm curious to hear their updated response.

I think shock assembly is where science meets art in the RC hobby.

 

[Skaxis]

I always build shocks by putting the diaphragm onto the shock first, then I screw down the cap. This creates the best seal between the oil and the diaphragm. I've never had a diaphragm turn sideways inside the shock, let alone as many times as they have done so in these Atomik shocks!

I agree with you about this weep hole though. If it's an oil bleed hole it should have a grub screw to seal it off.

It'll be interesting to see what they have to say in reply to my message.

In the mean time I've put the stock front shocks back on so I can run the truck.

 

[Eek-the-Fox]

Sorry, DBBD I've been meaning to reply to this post but it got away from me. There are a couple of ways that you can keep those body clips from walking off on their own. The first thing I tried were some body clip cables. The ones I went with are by Team Raffee Co and were supplied by AsiaTees. I like them because they are all of $1.65 for a set.

Installed on the Fury:

While the clip cables do their job, and are about a 30 second task to install, I find that I prefer the $4.80 Du-Bro Body Klip retainers. They are a bit of a PITA to install. You have to drill (or ream out) a hole in your truck body shell in between the existing body mount holes. The hole size must be precise or the little nub either wont fit through or it will fall out. I use a drill to ensure proper sizing. The instruction card states what size bit is required. It's a major pain to get the nub through the hole but once it's installed the body clips will NEVER get lost!

Installed on my sons Losi XXX-SCT:

@poombah Must consider this!!! Sick of losing body pins.

 

[Eek-the-Fox]

@Skaxis some great work you did there! Thanks for sharing and for all the details posts. Good to always see these and get some new ideas.

 

[Skaxis]

Atomik R/C support reply:

"Hello, the hole on the shock cap is intended to allow shock oil to escape if over filled. Are you saying that ALL of the oil has escaped, or just the over filled amount?"

I sent them pics of the twisted and damaged diaphragms with a detailed explanation of what I think is happening. Let's see how they reply.

Latest reply:

Hello Kelly, The hole is there as a pressure relief indicator. It is letting you know that there is too much oil in there or there a a bladder failure. I will send you a few rebuild kits to make sure the bladders are good.

I'm not sure I agree with the value of such a hole but whatever. I am 100% convinced that their diaphragm design is flawed. They've made the ridge too soft allowing the diaphragm to distort under pressure from the oil during shock compression. This distortion in return results in a massive misalignment which at best allows most of the oil to be ejected via the hole. At worst the diaphragm gets caught in the piston and is damaged / torn during rebound.

When the new rebuild kit arrives I will build up one shock and put my hypothesis to the test. In the meantime I'm using the stock shocks until new Arrma balls #AR330010 arrive and I can install the Integy MSR11s.

 

[Vance164]

Skaxis any updates on the shocks?

 

[Skaxis]

Skaxis any updates on the shocks?

Sadly, Integy has been out of the 98mm blue MSR11 shocks. Once they come back in stock I'll get some. For the time being I've been running the Atomik's. They don't seem to be leaking... I think the trick is to install the bladder into the cap and screw that down onto the shock body, but that's not the best way to build a bladder type shock.

 

[Vance164]

Sadly, Integy has been out of the 98mm blue MSR11 shocks. Once they come back in stock I'll get some. For the time being I've been running the Atomik's. They don't seem to be leaking... I think the trick is to install the bladder into the cap and screw that down onto the shock body, but that's not the best way to build a bladder type shock.

9h got ya I thought you had purchased the 78 for the front was wondering if them being for a crawler would have any effect

 

[mrbelloso]

Skaxis had you thought about this ones:

http://www.integy.com/st_prod.html?p_prodid=6843&p_catid=107&ratesortby=New#.Vwsz3vl95hE

 

[Skaxis]

9h got ya I thought you had purchased the 78 for the front was wondering if them being for a crawler would have any effect

Too right. I do have the 78mm on the front. They have been working just fine. Great for bashing at the park and what not. I wish I had more spring choices for the track but TBH I haven't looked at what other brands offer for springs that would fit. Since racing season has started, and we don't have a 2WD SCT class at my track, the Fury has sat idle for some weeks now.

 

[Skaxis]

Skaxis had you thought about this ones:

http://www.integy.com/st_prod.html?p_prodid=6843&p_catid=107&ratesortby=New#.Vwsz3vl95hE

No. From what I've read, the piggy back shocks are just a pain the the tukus. They're more complicated and prone to leaks than standard style shocks. Since shocks on R/C trucks are already so over engineered additional oil really isn't necessary. If you decide to give them a go though I would love to hear your feedback on how they work. It's been months since Integy has had the blue 98mm MSR11s in stock.

 

[Skaxis]

Well it's been months and a blue pair of rear Integy MSR11 shocks have not come up for sale on eBay. I can't order directly from Integy due to their minimum order limit and I only want one pair of blue shocks. I saw the Gmade XD shocks advertised and they are very close to the length we need for the Fury. 75mm front and 93mm rear. That's only a -3mm deficit on the front and a -5mm deficit on the rear. I really want the shocks to match front-rear so I ordered up a set of each. They're quite the package, nicely done with great instructions and they even include oil (mystery weight).

Once I built them up using Green Slime for the o-rings, 35W Associated oil in the front and 32.5W in the rear they didn't look that much shorter than stock or the one pair of front Integy MSR11s I have.

Rear shocks. Stock (98mm) on the left and Gmade XD (93mm) on the right:

Front shocks. Gmade XD (75mm) on left, Integy MSR11 (78mm) in the middle, and stock (78mm) on the right:

Of the 3, the Gmades are certainly the nicest fit and finish with the Integy a close 2nd. Note that the lower mount on the Gmade is an Arrma part with Arrma ball connector. The Gmade parts are too large to use. Strike 1 against the Gmade.

They sure do look the part!

Mounted up, the rears:

The fronts:

In action, the shocks are smooth and silky. They don't have quite the travel of the stock but that's to be expected considering the loss in over-all length. The shock collars are very loose. I'm concerned that they'll move during use requiring constant rechecking of the ride height. Strike 2 against the Gmade.

Like the Atomik Ultras before them, the Gmade have a weep hole in the cap. This was not visible in any of the online images I looked at. While the diaphragms are more robust than the weaksauce Atomik, they still let all the oil bleed out in the front. I even built them up in "low pressure" mode. Strike 3 against the Gmade.

So, I'm going to quite looking around for other shocks and just buckle down and order up a new pair of color matching Integy MSR11s. I'll run these Gmades for a bit while the bank account recovers from all the R/C purchased I've made recently. Once I get the Integys ordered and installed, I'll put the Gmades up on eBay or something.

 

[LunchBox]

@Skaxis i wanted blue also I went with the atomic hot racing shocks the 90 mm in the front with limiters and 100mm for the back work awesome!
https://arrmaforum.com/threads/granite-and-mega-granite.1054/
https://arrmaforum.com/threads/granite-and-mega-granite.1054/